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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Why do you believe in "true love" ?
    #2286710 - 01/30/04 11:48 AM (13 years, 26 days ago)

My opinion:

I'll believe it when I see it. Then, when its gone, I will question whether it ever existed in the first place.

Seeing is believing, but, try as I may, I do not see true love. All I see is mutual exchange.

"I'll be there for you as long as it works for me. I play a game, its called insincerity." - Trent Reznor

Love is defined as "A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness."

I can agree with that, but this kind of love can only exist in the moment. It has no permenance. "True" love, on the other hand, is supposed to be "unconditional positive regard." If true love exists, I have not seen it.

"Unconditional" means that it is not bound by time and space. That means I cannot truly love someone today and then not love them tommorow. If I truly love someone, then it would not matter if that person slit my throat and stabbed me in the back; I would still love them. If you "fall out of love" with someone, then, IMO, you were never truly in love with them in the first place.

Even parental love is conditional. every parent has a breaking point. If you wreck your dad's car or steal from your mother's purse enough times, they will stop loving you. They will cut you off and leave you to die in the streets. I've seen it happen to many friends of mine.

Does true love exist, or are people just deluding themselves?


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2286740 - 01/30/04 12:02 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

one time I thought I was really, I mean REALLY in love with this girl. I convinced myself that I was experiencing "true" love.

then in a moment of brutally honest self-reflection, I asked myself how I would feel if she gained 90 lbs...


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2286743 - 01/30/04 12:02 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

:lol:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2286840 - 01/30/04 12:53 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

True love exists, I have been living with it for over 13 years and will live with it till the day I die.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: Evolving]
    #2286893 - 01/30/04 01:24 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

would you love them in a car?
would you love them from afar?
would you love them on a train?
would you love them in the rain?
Would you love them and not complain
when they cause you blinding, searing pain?

regardless of peace signs, rainbows and doves,
I will not, can not believe in true love

Reprazentin a little bit of spot poetry in the spot
there is no freestyle
style is not free
style is expensive :cool:

:smile: :smile: :smile:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineRenegade8
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2286906 - 01/30/04 01:29 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
If I truly love someone, then it would not matter if that person slit my throat and stabbed me in the back; I would still love them.




I think unconditional love can exist, although I agree it's rare. I'm not in a romantic relationship right now, but I've had that experience recently with a friend who betrayed my trust. It was hard and very painful at first, but some friendships are too strong for something like that to fuck up.

Everything's cool now & I never even think about what happened. If anything, it's made us closer 'cause if that wasn't enough to come between us, I don't know what would.


--------------------
I'm just see-through faded, super jaded, and out of my mind. - R.I.P. Layne


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2286907 - 01/30/04 01:29 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

I believe in all forms of Love.

There really is no "fake" Love, imho. Hence there is no "True" love.

Just different forms and types of Love.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2286949 - 01/30/04 01:48 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

I can agree with that :thumbup:

but the idea of anything as a constant, even if it is something like love, rubs me the wrong way.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ] * 1
    #2287570 - 01/30/04 06:15 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Supposedly, Eskimoes have 28 different words for snow, and their lives depend upon these very different enviornmental conditions, so they know their snow! In English, we have this word 'love,' which is as inadequate for us as the single word 'snow' would be for Eskimoes. Of course, one could turn towards Greek in order to help us differentiate love into Agape, Eros or Philias (altruistic, yearning or brotherly, respectively), but things are never quite so simple. So, the Latins took Agape and Eros together, for example, and created the concept of 'Caritas' which is a synthesis of the two.

None of this has been too helpful for me until I took the Biblical use of the word Agape - a selfless, altruistic love that Jesus expounds, and began using the word Compassion in its place (I mean, how many people know the Greek word Agape?)
Compassion is Love in its truest sense if one looks to the highest meaning that the word Love is intended to convey. 1 Corinthians 13:1-13 in the New Testament describes this Love, but uses the word 'Charity' (the English translation of the Latin Caritas). The beginning of every sura in the Qur'an says: "Allah the Merciful, the Compassionate." True Love means Love that is True. That which is True is synonymous with that which is Real, since Truth=Reality. The Truth or the Real, taken as Ultimate Reality is synonymous with GOD, and thus Love that is True is Love that partakes of the nature of Ultimate Reality, or GOD. That Love is Compassion.

Being Compassionate means being a vehicle for Divinity. Being Compassionate means being Holy - Whole - One with the Whole or Holy or GOD. It may take time to Realize the implication of acting Compassionately, but that Realization is what it means to be Enlightened - a mind which is made radiant by the Heart's Compassion. True Love is not about receiving from another, neither is True Love interpersonal. True Love radiates from one's Sacred Center, transforming one as it does so. If another shines his or her 'Love Light' back, then a certain mutuality occurs, which is beautiful, but that mutuality is not what defines True Love, which is altruistic and neither expects or desires reciprocity. THAT is Unconditional Love. One operates voluntarily from kindness because kindness is The Way. One does not continue to receive abuse, without limit, and allow it. That is not Forgiveness or Unconditional Love - that is co-dependence, masochism or enabling. Compassion is also Wisdom, and co-dependence, masochism and enabling are dis-eases, not Wisdom. In True Love, Head and Heart are not apart. Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2287999 - 01/30/04 09:29 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

"Why do you believe in 'true love?'"

That's a loaded question. Who ever said I believe in true love? :-P


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offlineskoomaguitarist
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2288805 - 01/31/04 03:08 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

come talk to me about true love... if you don't believe in it, maybe i can convince you otherwise...  :wink:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2288950 - 01/31/04 04:26 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

I believe in love.  I don't know what "true" has to do with it.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2289032 - 01/31/04 05:18 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

I also belive in LOVE, but TRUE love could mean alot of things, to different people.

Real or actual love I would say maybe is this......

Love is subjective, and if 2 people REALLY love each other, well its LOVE, call it true love if you want I guess.

But it all depends on THIER experiences, no one else can say whats love or not for those "two".

:smile:


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2289994 - 01/31/04 06:19 PM (13 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Even parental love is conditional.  every parent has a breaking point.  If you wreck your dad's car or steal from your mother's purse enough times, they will stop loving you.  They will cut you off and leave you to die in the streets.  I've seen it happen to many friends of mine. 




There are a few exceptions where a parent truly doesn't love their kid.. but I haven't really seen these exceptions myself. :wink:

I don't see true love as being something that has to make people irrational. In my situation, I could live with my parents as long as I was in some type of school. Well, come early my senior year, school was only hindering me on my path that I had chosen.. so I dropped out. :lol:

Well, since I was going to be coming to Norway come summer, they let me stay as long as I paid rent. But if I didn't have anything coming up like that, I would have gotten my ass kicked out. They kicked my stepbrother out because he was constantly getting in trouble and wouldn't listen to his mom...

Do they still love me and him? Of course. But they are realistic people and they can't have us leeching off of their income. Hell, I would probably be even able to move back in with them if I wanted to, IF i payed rent.... that ain't going to happen unless it was the difference between freezing to death on the streets, but ja. hehe

I think it is seriously possible to develop a deep love for every single person we come into contact with... we are all of the same. We don't need to be irrational about it and let those same people walk all fucking over us or anything, but if your actions are being charged with that love intention thang, the world will start to become a better place. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleImOver18
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2290186 - 01/31/04 07:21 PM (13 years, 24 days ago)

I believe love is an emotion. And every feature a human being has is to help the human survive. And I think that's all emotions are. Just something we developed through evolution, in order to keep us from dying out. Without love humans might not come together and procreate. And even if some humans were to have children out of pure lust, no love involved, there has to be a mother/father's love for the child to keep the child alive and watch over it until it's old enough to make more humans.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2290204 - 01/31/04 07:26 PM (13 years, 24 days ago)

DoctorJ said:
"Even parental love is conditional. every parent has a breaking point. If you wreck your dad's car or steal from your mother's purse enough times, they will stop loving you. They will cut you off and leave you to die in the streets. I've seen it happen to many friends of mine."


I don't think this is because their love is conditional. I think it takes more love to tell a child to leave and grow up then to keep supporting that child in bad behaviors.

I totally loved my daughter, who is now 26, but when she was 17 and 1/2, I threw her out. I loved her, but I wasn't doing her any favors by allowing her to live at home when all she would do is take drugs, drink, ditch, and not work. Fine. Get out and figure it out on your own.

Within a year, she was living with her boyfriend and taking care of herself. If I had kept supporting her, she probably would have kept doing the things she was doing.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: Frog]
    #2290443 - 01/31/04 09:18 PM (13 years, 24 days ago)

A good friend of mine has always been suicidally depressed. He's a metalhead stoner that hates the world and rebels against it always. His parents were never very understanding of this. They kicked him out when he turned 18, and he bummed around New orleans for awhile.

One day he decided to kill himself by downing a whole bottle of percodan. He suffered brain death, but the EMR doctors revived him.

His parents sent him a get well card. Then they took out a large life insurance policy on him, naming themselves the benficiaries.

Belive me: Parental love is conditional.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2290592 - 01/31/04 10:27 PM (13 years, 24 days ago)

Some parents are just fucked up and shouldn't have kids.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2290659 - 01/31/04 11:04 PM (13 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Belive me: Parental love is conditional.



You cannot point to conditional love and use it as an argument that unconditional love does not exist, it really depends on the individuals involved. To take the worst cases and then assume that the same conditions apply to all situations and individuals is not rational. There are priests who molest young boys, do all priests molest young boys? Of course not. There are black men who are thieves and murderers, are all black men thieves and murderers? Of course not. There are southern white men who have lynched black men and belong to the KKK, do all white men engage in the same behavior? Of course not.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Why do you believe in "true love" ? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2290778 - 02/01/04 12:31 AM (13 years, 24 days ago)

That is one of the saddest things i've heard. Fucking assholes.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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