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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!"
    #2663425 - 05/11/04 03:34 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Does anyone else get the feeling that the thing in Iraq is getting out of hand?

The way I look at it, either

a) the U.S. Military is trying it's best to defeat the insurgents and simply are not succeeding (bad), or

b) the U.S. Military is dancing around in a grey area between war and peace, just basically dangling our soldiers out in iraq to get offed. (bad)

"We" (the nation) need to either GET ON THE BALL and seriously roll out the big guns, or get the fuck out of there. Because as it is it seems all we've got going on is our soldiers patrolling around until they get killed.

The thing is, I DON'T CARE whether we hit them with all we've got or do the exact opposite and pull out completely.

Just do SOMETHING.

These 2 cents were brought to you by the letter B, and the number 6.


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2663454 - 05/11/04 03:40 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think pulling out "the big guns" would be a grave mistake at this point. It looks as if more and more of the Iraqi people are coming to view the occupation in a negative light. Bringing out "the big guns" would probably only serve to push even more of them to the "we hate USA" side.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2663518 - 05/11/04 03:52 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Actually, I think we are there to have troops ready to take oil by force when the price increases exponentially as there is less and less. :grin:

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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2663530 - 05/11/04 03:55 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think you're right on the money there, fireworks :wink:

Most of us will get to see a new age begin over the next 30-50 years...when our civilization runs head-first into a brick wall (the loss of oil as a main energy source).


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: trendal]
    #2663588 - 05/11/04 04:08 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I'm hoping it occurs in the next thirty to fifty years... but I'm fearing that it will begin much more soon... :frown:

Oil doesn't make the world go round... cheap oil does... :crazyeyes:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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If I should die this very moment
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Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
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:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2663597 - 05/11/04 04:10 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I'm hoping it occurs in the next thirty to fifty years... but I'm fearing that it will begin much more soon...

We have opposite hopes, then! I'm hoping it happens soon...a LOT sooner than 50 years!

And you are 100% correct. I should have said "the loss of cheap oil as a main energy source" :wink:


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OfflinephEight
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*ck [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2663639 - 05/11/04 04:23 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If the United States goal in Iraq is to unify the country under one centralized government (which is what they claim), it's nearly impossible. With the opposing groups such as the Shia and Sunni Muslims and many other rival groups living within the same country, it's almost an impossible task to complete... it's been proven many times in the course of history.

I don't understand how the "superpower" of the world can't grasp this simple fact...


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"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood." -Ralph Waldo Emerson


Edited by phEight (05/11/04 04:24 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: trendal]
    #2663657 - 05/11/04 04:28 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I'm hoping it is longer so we will all have time to help make the transistion easier, because we have nothing that can replace oil in half as many tasks that oil fufills.... the closest would be hemp, and that is definitely something we need to utilize to its fullest....

I think if we lessen the damage it will inflict on us, that it won't be as much of a shock, which will increase our chance to recover... I realize that often a shock is needed to really jolt people awake and get them moving, but I think the best method would to be to gradually wake people up and get some foresight and some planning going. What this peak oil thing proposes is that we might not be able to recover so well. I think it is time for this race to break out of this fall of Rome cycle, we've evolved so many times to lose it all again.  :grin:

Before oil became widely used, there was like a billion people living without it... now we have five billion alive that require it to continue living. That's a lot of people that will perish if we don't set up at least a partial recovery system before it happens. The Earth can't provide for these people, our mass agriculture system alone relies heavily on oil. I don't think we should risk letting it all fall apart with hopes to put it back together, better than ever... I think we need to reorganize and consciously solve our problems.  :laugh:

Go Revolution! :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*ck [Re: phEight]
    #2663672 - 05/11/04 04:32 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

phEight said:
If the United States goal in Iraq is to unify the country under one centralized government.




The United States has always been about isolationism and looking out for #1. There is always some hidden agenda, always some huge benefit to reap from getting involved with international affairs.

As the rest of the world knows, we are greedy fuckers! Powerful, greedy, maleovent, snake-like fuckers. Look at our actions with that in mind. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2663708 - 05/11/04 04:40 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I agree that it would be better to soften the blow...but I don't think it can be done at this point. I think we've already passed the point of no return, and we are now all riding a runaway train. It's obvious that those in power are either unaware of the gavity of the situation (which I find highly unlikely) or they have other motives which keep them from notifying the public or making any real progress towards a post-oil source of energy.

The population of the Earth right now is over 6 billion (hit that a couple years ago). By 2020 we are expected to reach 8 billion, if current rates continue.

I fear that we will lose a vast portion of this population in the coming years. Whether it be a direct result of lack of oil (ie: food production drops off as population increases leading to mass famine) or from the wars that will inevitably come (I think WW3 is around the corner, fought by countries making a desperate grab for the remaining oil supplies). As I said earlier, I'm not sure this can be avoided now. I have begun planning for my own survival and will gladly accept the company of others who wish to survive.

I think that, after all is said and done, we will be much better off. The population will stabalize after a possible large die-off, and we will almost certainly discover an alternate source of energy that will ensure the survival of the species. I think those of us left after the War will be in a much better position to create a more peaceful society that is not so affluent as ours is now. We will need to learn how to live with the Earth...not struggling against it as we do now.

In short: I do not have much hope left for most of our species. I think most of us will blindly run into the wall, and when it happens most people won't know why or how.

PS: the situation in Iraq could be, and probably is, one of the precursors to WW3 :wink:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: trendal]
    #2663725 - 05/11/04 04:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Ja... it is sort of a runaway train... heh. To be able to bring everyone to a point of more awareness so we could bring massive, fast change, would take fucking forever... we'd need a shock just about as powerful as the actual one that everything falling apart would provide.... if only I could levitate in the air, I could be Jesus and people would listen to me. :lol:

We need to plant fields of hemp everywhere... but when I think of that, I think of the Armageddon story, the seven oasis' or whatever... fuck genetically modified wheat, its going to be marijuana! Then when I think about the Revolution, I see Shroomism as possibly being the Anti-Christ... :lol:

Seriously though, sometimes I have hope and post like I did above.. other times I accept that we're fucked and might as well prepare to rebuild... *sighs*

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2663744 - 05/11/04 04:52 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Seriously though, sometimes I have hope and post like I did above.. other times I accept that we're fucked and might as well prepare to rebuild... *sighs*

I'm about the same way :smirk:

Though as time goes on, and events continue as they are, I find less and less hope left.

I find it exciting, though. The possibility that I might see the end of this society. It will be sad to have many people die...but I don't think there is anything I can do now to stop that from happening so I try not to worry about it.

Accept it as it comes...and do your damned best to survive. We, as a species, have more to learn from coming events than I think any of us can imagine right now. My hopes, these days, lie with those of us who manage to survive...and that we will use the lessons we learn to create a better world for our children to live in.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: trendal]
    #2663765 - 05/11/04 04:56 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Ja... its definitely a huge learning experience. We've been so interconnected that I think we will finally have the possibillity to break out of our horrible cycle... but I guess we have to suffer that shock once more. :frown:

Of course, this could just be us leaving the 3rd density, onward and upward... I'm ready to add that next dimension and have more creativity. :grin:

I guess all we have left is to do what we can to ensure that we'll as a whole make it through this, and not let the negativity bury us... probably the greatest lesson here at all. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2663790 - 05/11/04 05:05 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I was one of the people who was against it before the war even started. Attacking Iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror and has greatly hurt the war on terror. We are creating more terrorists than we can kill. One day we will be hit again by terrorists who never would have existed but for this catastrophic loss of goodwill created by this unwise war.

I believe in war only in self defense. Direct self defense. No domino theory, no paranoia. As it has been said, attacking Iraq after 9-11 would be like if after Pearl Harbor we turned around and attacked Mexico.

We are all part of the web of life. What we do to the web we do to ourselves. When we attack someone they react as an animal would- attacking in return. You shall reap what you sow. They that live by the sword shall die by the sword. We have all heard these words. In the past, the cause and effect chain was unclear because the world was so large you couldn't connect the dots. For example, if you put your hand in the fire and it hurts like hell guess what? You don't do that anymore!! But what if the pain came a week later, a year later, a decade later? Would you connect the two events? Now the world has been made smaller because of technology. The cause-and-effect lag time grows shorter and shorter. One day we will see that what we do to others we do to ourselves. Hopefully this knowledge won't come in the form of a suitcase nuclear bomb delivered to a major city.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: Jellric]
    #2663819 - 05/11/04 05:11 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Wise words, member #18. :wink: It reads like common sense to me.. it is a pity it isn't common to most of the yahoos out there... :nonono:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePhishgrrl
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2663989 - 05/11/04 06:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

We're fucked AND we're doing the fucking too- however i look at it, our government and the non-humans that run it are doing evil things while wearing the horribly transluscent (to my eyes at least) costume of "Christianity". The only reason these nitwits get elected is because they are "anti-abortion" (while they murder and rape and plunder)....too bad people are so stupid that they will vote with only one issue in mind. Dennis Kucinich all the way! www.kucinich.us <<<<the one who would get us out of the grave we're digging for ourselves!


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Once in awhile you can get shown the light

In the strangest of places if you look at it right...



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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2664419 - 05/11/04 07:27 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

"We're all f*cked!"





You know, I was thinking the exact same thing today.


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2664596 - 05/11/04 08:00 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I must disagree with some of you on this issue. I don't really think we are going to have some major catastrophic famine or something that will wipe out massive amounts of people. I mean do you really think that our government or major corporations, or even other governments would allow such a thing to occur. I mean there are alot of people out there that don't like the US, but the fact remains that we make lots of money for people everywhere. The US makes lots of people rich and those people will want to stay rich and therefore will preserve our world. The only real problem I see would have to do with religion. Religion is constantly a burden to the world and is usually the main reason for wars. Also it really hasn't been that long since Iraq became first occupied. Do you think they can just completely restructure a government overnight. This takes a long time and not to mention the fact that terrorists are constantly destroying what is built.

Also I don't think oil is that big of an issue, first off the US barely gets any oil from the middle east. If anything getting that oil would just be a leveraging unit against europe. The fact remains that the US gets most of their oil from their own sources such as Texas and a little from Alaska. South America also has a ton of oil. These reserves aren't nearly dried up and we haven't even started getting oil from Russia yet where there is predicted to be a good amount. Secondly we should have another source for fuels soon in hydrogen. Its just a matter of converting major industries over to it. Not to mention the fact of electricity that can be created. The only real problem that could remain with oil is our use of plastics. We use up all kinds of oil in plastics and they are such a crucial part of society today. Their uses range from little devices implanted to keep people living to candy wrappers. As for the issue of needing oil for lubrication for mechanical devices, this can be remedied through magnetically levitated bearings.

I just think we have many options and that hope is not all lost.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2664908 - 05/11/04 09:02 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

This kind of attitude just allows you to ignore problems.

I don't think we're fucked. As soon as we want to, we can change.

You guys are fools if you think this is out of your control.


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: My Thought Of The Day - May 11th, 2004 - "We're all f*cked!" [Re: relativexistance]
    #2665501 - 05/11/04 11:10 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I mean do you really think that our government or major corporations, or even other governments would allow such a thing to occur.

I don't think it's a matter of them "allowing" such things to occur, so much as they may be inevitable.

Also I don't think oil is that big of an issue, first off the US barely gets any oil from the middle east. If anything getting that oil would just be a leveraging unit against europe. The fact remains that the US gets most of their oil from their own sources such as Texas and a little from Alaska. South America also has a ton of oil. These reserves aren't nearly dried up and we haven't even started getting oil from Russia yet where there is predicted to be a good amount.

"Peak oil" is a well-understood concept in the oil industry. The USA hit their peak-oil in the 70s...ever since then oil production in North America has steadily fallen off. At this point we have extracted almost half (possibly over half) of the world's total oil supply. As all oil production follows a bell-curve (the reason for the term "peak oil") we may now be on the downslope. From this point on it becomes increasingly more expensive to extract oil.

Secondly we should have another source for fuels soon in hydrogen. Its just a matter of converting major industries over to it. Not to mention the fact of electricity that can be created.

Hydrogen is not a energy source. It is an energy storage medium. There is NOT a lot of free elemental hydrogen floating around...so it has to be produced first. Producing it requires energy, and currently the energy required to produce hydrogen is more than you get out of the hydrogen when you consume it. Hydrogen is what is known as an "energy sink".


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