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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Edmunter]
    #26231879 -

usually once a week is plenty to get all the transfers i need done and time to grow out for another transfer. occasionaly an extra quick session here and there if i have a plate that isn't quite ready when the others i'm working on are ready.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: LtLurker]
    #26231898 -

With the new flow ive been having 2 and its really good for making you get rid of the shit.  Knowing you have work to do in 4 days time and not enough rounds/petris.  I used to have the donating plate wait around for weeks but not anymore.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Bobbit] * 2
    #26231925 -

Bobbit said:
LtLurker said:
Clearing up terms. . .

A clone is just a clone, it can contain 1000's of strains.




Can you point me to any microscopic research that confirms this? I have been led to believe this is not the case and apart from the growers who make assumptions at a macro level, this seems far from intuitive.

Each of the 1000’s of strains would have to be growing at almost exactly the same speed to be maintained after multiple leading edge transfers, which seems particularly unlikely considerring they are all competing for resource at the same time. wouldn’t he who gets the best resource start, take the lead, taking the lions share of the nutrient as progressing, promoting stronger growth? :shrug:



Paul stamits,  'the mushroom cultivator'
Page 25
'multispore culture is the least difficult method of obtaining a viable if not absolutely pure strain. In the germination of such a multitude of spores, one in fact creates many strains, some incompatible with others and each potentially different in the manor and degree to which they fruit under artificial conditions. This mixture of strains can have a limiting effect on total yield with the less productive strains inhibiting the activity of more productive ones.'

Here's a good place to start... It's not just growers making assumptions, some of us have libraries dedicated to cultivation. He goes into detail how this takes place and how we can use it to our benefit. Anyone leading you to believe this is not the case is just uninformed. They may still be successful cultivators without knowing this but there is lots of literature on it.


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Germinating old spores progress page
how to calibrate your Martha



:spiralflip::spiralflip:



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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: spiritlands]
    #26231939 -

lol, i almost cringed a sec when you said stamets, but that right there is much better said than how i put it. thanks spirit.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: LtLurker]
    #26231968 -

LtLurker said:
lol, i almost cringed a sec when you said stamets, but that right there is much better said than how i put it. thanks spirit.



Ha ha, have things changed so much while I've been gone? In my day stamets was next to gospel. I thought your description was on point.


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Germinating old spores progress page
how to calibrate your Martha



:spiralflip::spiralflip:



Edited by spiritlands (10/05/19 03:59 PM)

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: spiritlands]
    #26232041 -

I spread ~4 drops from a spore syringe, got four colonies... Do you experience more growth from a few drops? I'm used to spore prints so I'm not sure.


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: spiritlands] * 1
    #26232047 -

I don't have a science background and there's some other guys that could go into much better details on specific things where i can only give examples. But the gist of it is he's just not a very reliable researcher and most growers on this site are not fans of him. There's a lot of things in his books related to growing that were just assumptions he stated as facts without any real attempts at verifying through experiments. like colonizing in dark as an example, a simple series of tests would have clearly shown that's just not true and more detrimental than benign. Also things like claiming to discover new species that were already known, weird "magic cure" stories with mushrooms, stuff like that.

Then of course there's the overall problem with books not updating. So even a great growing guide will eventually be considered outdated, while a live forum like this will constantly be growing and re-evaluating teks and standards.

@replyom i mean if you just dripped 4 drops straight onto the plate, i would only expect 4 points of germination at most. Usually people will swipe an innoc loop around with 1 drop to spread out it's contents so you'd see more points along the swipe path with myc, mold or bacteria growing from them.

If you did swipe it, it could just be a very dilute syringe. I have had some swabs that would only germ in a few spots across the entire swiped surface. There's a few possible reasons to see what you're seeing there.

Edited by LtLurker (10/05/19 04:40 PM)

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: LtLurker]
    #26232072 -

LtLurker said:
@replyom i mean if you just dripped 4 drops straight onto the plate, i would only expect 4 points of germination at most. Usually people will swipe an innoc loop around with 1 drop to spread out it's contents so you'd see more points along the swipe path with myc, mold or bacteria growing from them.

If you did swipe it, it could just be a very dilute syringe. I have had some swabs that would only germ in a few spots across the entire swiped surface. There's a few possible reasons to see what you're seeing there.



I did indeed spread them around. Any reason not to start transferring from one of these points of growth?

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: replyom] * 1
    #26232080 -

Not that i can tell. I do often have a little trouble with the initial germ id so like i said on the other page to the last guy, I lean towards transferring some growth that looks promising and check the first transfer plates after it's had some time to grow out.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: LtLurker]
    #26232196 -

LtLurker said:
I don't have a science background and there's some other guys that could go into much better details on specific things where i can only give examples. But the gist of it is he's just not a very reliable researcher and most growers on this site are not fans of him. There's a lot of things in his books related to growing that were just assumptions he stated as facts without any real attempts at verifying through experiments. like colonizing in dark as an example, a simple series of tests would have clearly shown that's just not true and more detrimental than benign. Also things like claiming to discover new species that were already known, weird "magic cure" stories with mushrooms, stuff like that.

Then of course there's the overall problem with books not updating. So even a great growing guide will eventually be considered outdated, while a live forum like this will constantly be growing and re-evaluating teks and standars.




Ok I can see that. I feel like this is where the age of information overtakes older generations of cultivators. I do wish he would update his books bc there are out dated information and techniques in there. I think there's a lot of good information from the era though. At the time much of this was misunderstood like darkness being a requirement. It seems like as soon as we Know something somebody comes along showing us we still don't know everything. That's why I love this forum. Unfortunately books are a medium of there past, by the time a new book gets published and distributed new information already is circulating. I feel like his generation layed the foundation for us to build upon and he gave the best information he could at the time. The evolution of knowledge will continue and one day we could find our skills outdated if we believe we have 'arrived' and don't pursue the knowledge of the generation after us.


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Germinating old spores progress page
how to calibrate your Martha



:spiralflip::spiralflip:



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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: spiritlands] * 1
    #26232241 -

I know clones iv taken have visibly different growth rates on agar, both of these were first transfer of an aa+ clone.


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Tormato]
    #26232646 -

Well I feel like a dumbass. I posted here a few days ago asking about what I did wrong pouring my plates, as all of them had the same mold and no mycelium growth. Well one thing I didn't mention is that I didn't wash out my media bottle after I finished pouring the plates, I just capped it with a little agar left in the bottom. I just pulled the bottle out and noticed the same mold growing on my plates is growing inside my media bottle. This must mean it wasn't sterilized during my pressure cooking? I don't understand why, I followed the tek, let it steam, reach 15psi, then cook for 20 minutes. Help please.
I have 16 plates that I assume are fucked. Kinda bummed.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Shroomwomb]
    #26232747 -

Shroomwomb said:
Well I feel like a dumbass. I posted here a few days ago asking about what I did wrong pouring my plates, as all of them had the same mold and no mycelium growth. Well one thing I didn't mention is that I didn't wash out my media bottle after I finished pouring the plates, I just capped it with a little agar left in the bottom. I just pulled the bottle out and noticed the same mold growing on my plates is growing inside my media bottle. This must mean it wasn't sterilized during my pressure cooking? I don't understand why, I followed the tek, let it steam, reach 15psi, then cook for 20 minutes. Help please.
I have 16 plates that I assume are fucked. Kinda bummed.



What was your method in the sab?

Failures are just helping you fine tune greatness.....

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Edmunter]
    #26232769 -

Edmunter said:
Shroomwomb said:
Well I feel like a dumbass. I posted here a few days ago asking about what I did wrong pouring my plates, as all of them had the same mold and no mycelium growth. Well one thing I didn't mention is that I didn't wash out my media bottle after I finished pouring the plates, I just capped it with a little agar left in the bottom. I just pulled the bottle out and noticed the same mold growing on my plates is growing inside my media bottle. This must mean it wasn't sterilized during my pressure cooking? I don't understand why, I followed the tek, let it steam, reach 15psi, then cook for 20 minutes. Help please.
I have 16 plates that I assume are fucked. Kinda bummed.



What was your method in the sab?

Failures are just helping you fine tune greatness.....



For the pour I wiped with iso, sprayed with soap water, set the plates and media bottle in. Wiped my forearms and gloves with iso. After taking the lid off the media bottle I started pouring one plate up from the bottom, picking up the lid and the 5orso plates on top. Then I went up the stack. I put the media lid back on after I finished pouring 19 plates (I overpoured a few and ended up one short).
For inoculation I just flamed the needle, too off the lid along with the plates above, dropped on average ~3 drops onto each plate, and inoculated 4.
I just wrapped 6 of the remaining plates from my fridge in the sab and put them on the shelf. If they also grow I will throw the rest of them away and repour. :cool:

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Shroomwomb]
    #26233224 -

Hey fellas.  I'm having trouble getting cultures going this fall with grain water.  I'm thinking I need to switch over to malt extract to have more control with nutrient percentage.
  Would you guys recommend mea or lmea?

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: MH5109]
    #26233228 -

MH5109 said:
I know clones iv taken have visibly different growth rates on agar, both of these were first transfer of an aa+ clone.




Proving that clones are not isolates...IMO


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Tormato]
    #26233386 -

Tormato said:
MH5109 said:
I know clones iv taken have visibly different growth rates on agar, both of these were first transfer of an aa+ clone.




Proving that clones are not isolates...IMO



Are there people who think there are?  It definetly easier to get an isolate from a clone but Ididnt think it was a common mistake.  I could be wrong.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Edmunter]
    #26233392 -

Edmunter said:
Tormato said:
MH5109 said:
I know clones iv taken have visibly different growth rates on agar, both of these were first transfer of an aa+ clone.




Proving that clones are not isolates...IMO



Are there people who think there are?  It definetly easier to get an isolate from a clone but Ididnt think it was a common mistake.  I could be wrong.



I've just gotten into brawls with people that insisted clones were isolates...I agree it gets you there faster, but not an isolate. Sorry to MH5109...didn't mean to single you out man just using your pictures as reference.  :lol:


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Tormato] * 1
    #26233423 -

I can see people making the mistake without having much grip on the biology of these things. Every plant or animal is just a single complete DNA, so why wouldn't a fungus fruit be like that.

And that's if they have the definition for isolate clear. There seems to be plenty of people that think an isolate is defined some other way, so there could be quite a few scenerios where the 2 innaccurate ideas create this clone=isolate situation.

:shrug: idk kinda stoned, just my 2c.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: LtLurker] * 1
    #26233431 -

And for the effort verses fruiting a clone culture is it worth it except to take it off the tick list....Lol I havent yet.  Maybe I should try.

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