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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26015037 -

That's a good point regarding why he should face the same government he is exposing.

This is why he has a good argument for it being in the public interest.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26015663 -

He shouldn’t need an argument, is the point.

The US created the espionage act in 1917 as a means to ward off spies and people who were aiding our enemies in World War 1. Up until the last decade, it was NEVER used to prosecute journalists who publish classified information.

The US is going after Assange because he exposed their war crimes and made them look bad.


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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #26015666 -

Keep in mind that the NYT, Washington Post, LA Times, Boston Herald, Miami Herald, The Intercept, The Guardian, etc etc all regularly publish classified information to the public, and nobody is threatening to throw them in Gitmo.


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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26020450 -

Stable Genius said:
the ridiculous part is that he's so innocent and done such a service to humanity that he had to hide for the last 7 years instead of stepping up.

He's a spoilt brat who's about to learn a huge lesson about messing with other peoples stuff.

And, I'm far from ignorant when it comes to first ammendment rights that this case will test.
This is his chance to make history, he won't do it by hiding out. He should be readying himself for a fight in court.


Yes, Assange has, in fact, done an amazing service to humanity.  I posted an entertaining video that explains it here.

The ecstatic also explained exactly why he has to hide.  He exposed Government wrongdoing, and the Government wants him in jail for that.  The charges are bullshit, but he will likely lose in court to a Government that wants whistle blowers like him eliminated.

Assange has done nothing wrong by exposing Government wrongdoing, and he's doing what lesser journalists are not doing.  He's not just parroting whatever he's told to say like CNN, MSNBC, etc do.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26027406 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
For anyone who appreciates comedy with their politics:




Edit:  This is a great summary of some of the many things Julian Assange revealed to the world, and why he should be treated as a hero rather than a criminal.



Thanks for posting the link Falcon, I agree that Assange has provided the world with evidence of shocking behaviour by government, the U.S. government in particular.

It's how he went about it that is causing the hesitation to rush to his defense.

The argument that is being put forward in the media over here is that he crossed normal journalistic lines by involving himself in a political outcome and offering assistance in hacking the material as well.

I still think the only way forward for Assange was/is to take this head on in court. It IS in the public's interest and he could do a lot worse than placing his faith in the legal system. High profile lawyers would be lining up to take this case on I'd be guessing.

I don't know what options are available other than a court hearing however it appears the weight of the situation + 7 years isolation have understandably affected his health. That's unfortunate.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26027453 -

Stable Genius said:
Thanks for posting the link Falcon, I agree that Assange has provided the world with evidence of shocking behaviour by government, the U.S. government in particular.


You're welcome! (though Lee Camp deserves the credit)  :smirk:

Stable Genius said:
It's how he went about it that is causing the hesitation to rush to his defense.

The argument that is being put forward in the media over here is that he crossed normal journalistic lines by involving himself in a political outcome and offering assistance in hacking the material as well.


I'm super confused now.  Exposing wrongdoing has nothing to do with a "political outcome", it's about exposing wrongdoing.  And he wasn't offering assistance in getting Manning information (Manning already had access to the information).  He was offering assistance in helping Manning conceal his identity, which he was unsuccessful in doing.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26027473 -

I was referring to the timing of wikileaks dumping the DNC emails before the 2016 election.

Wasn't the problem with Chelsea Manning in regards to Assange offering to help with cracking a secure password?

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26027550 -

I wonder what Julian Assange is doing right now.....:strokebeard:

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26027572 -

That's an interesting thought L C

I'll hazard a guess and say he is weighing up the gravity of the situation.

I don't doubt he is sick.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26027584 -

:firecum: <----


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: XUL]
    #26027636 -

Ha! XUL yes probably, along with shitting his pants.

Geoffery Robertson, high profile Queens Council, holds dual British and Aus citizenship thinks Assange could be fighting the extradition proceedings for another couple of years.
He also thinks Assange's fight for free speech needs to be taken up by U.S. lawyers, as well as his views on the Ecuadorian and Aus governments involvement or lack of.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/programs/the-world/2019-04-11/geoffrey-robertson-qc-calls-on-julian-assanges/10995736

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26027785 -

Stable Genius said:
I was referring to the timing of wikileaks dumping the DNC emails before the 2016 election.

Wasn't the problem with Chelsea Manning in regards to Assange offering to help with cracking a secure password?


Who cares about the timing?  If Assange waited until after the election, republicans would say the delay was politically motivated.

And he offered to help Chelsea crack a secure password in order to remain anonymous, not to get to information she didn't already have access to.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26027825 -

Yes but would a journalist have done the same?

That's the main distinction that's being drawn by his critics, that he became part of the story.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26027872 -

Stable Genius said:
Yes but would a journalist have done the same?


He did exactly what journalists are supposed to do.

Sitting back and reporting whatever news the Government tells you to report is NOT journalism, regardless that koods thinks that's how it should be done now.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26027902 -

That's not what the journo's here are saying. ABC The Drum

Justice Department press release says here the crime is worth 5 years, most likely less. I guess if the U.S. government is as
crooked as you're suggesting that 5 could become longer but that's speculation, as is the premise that he won't get a fair hearing.

Assanges indictment

Like I say there's really only one option. After he wastes more time delaying the inevitable extradition he needs to prepare a defense and if the judge agrees that his actions were in the public interest...

I was told once that I had no defense regarding drug charges but walked into court 9 times by myself and had the biggest charge dropped.
I'm STILL grinning about it and have great respect for the wisdom of the court.

Assange needs to step up but he's probably not well enough to anymore. That's unfortunate.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26027949 -

Stable Genius said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
He did exactly what journalists are supposed to do.

Sitting back and reporting whatever news the Government tells you to report is NOT journalism, regardless that koods thinks that's how it should be done now.

That's not what the journo's here are saying. ABC The Drum


You trust establishment news to tell you how journalism should be done?

REAL journalistic sites are up in arms about what's happening to Assange.

The Indictment of Assange Is a Blueprint for Making Journalists Into Felons - Glenn Greenwald
Trump’s Charges Against Julian Assange Would Effectively Criminalize Investigative Journalism - The Nation

The US Government is trying to cover their misdeeds by putting journalists in jail for whistle blowing.

The American people need to do everything we can to prevent whistle blowing from being illegal.

The propaganda here is now the worse I've ever seen.  I'm amazed smart people think Government wrongdoing should be kept secret.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26028129 -

I think it's a reasonable position to appreciate what Assange has exposed yet at the same time question his actions, that's all.
The rape allegations are hard to look past as well, something that needs sorting out, just saying.

The journo's here were of the opinion that Wikilieaks dumped a lot of unredacted information in the mass email dumps which is what some of
the extra charges are in relation to below... which, as I was reading, I couldn't help think what about the people that were gunned down?
That is disturbing and I see the hypocracy Falcon

18 count Superseding Indictment

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26028273 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Stable Genius said:
Yes but would a journalist have done the same?


He did exactly what journalists are supposed to do.

Sitting back and reporting whatever news the Government tells you to report is NOT journalism, regardless that koods thinks that's how it should be done now.


No. Journalists don’t do what Assange did. Releasing and indexing personal or business emails wholesale is not something a responsible journalist would ever do. Why are John Podestas dinner plans anyone’s business or newsworthy?

A real journalist who came into possession of classified or private information would have a duty to give the owner of that information the opportunity to comment or give their side before releasing anything.

Assange may deserve first ammendment protection, but his behavior has been highly unethical and his actions put the rights of the press in jeopardy.

Edited by koods (06/02/19 06:30 AM)

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: koods] * 1
    #26028396 -

I have no idea what should happen to Julian Assange. I don't know enough about what the MSM or the alternative are saying. I remember what Rolling Stone was saying about his case and rape accusations 2 years ago.

If he goes to U.S. federal court it will depend on the judge, and that probably wont go in his favor.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26039055 -

There's a few odd things happening with this latest video of Assange reportedly taken in Belmarsh prison... also. he looks fine to me?  :popcorn:

https://gizmodo.com/russian-propaganda-outlet-claims-you-cant-embed-this-le-1835330153

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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