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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Tipote]
    #25934162 -

Snowden isn't garbage, necessarily.  He should still be prosecuted, however.

I don't understand how so many people are willing to overlook crimes when it serves their purposes.  Isn't this the very same thing that you all criticize about Israel?  The ends never justify the means.  I am a man of principles, and whether or not I believe that some good came out of WikiLeaks does NOT excuse the man's conduct.


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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil]
    #25934196 -

Exactly.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #25934208 -

Enlil said:
I don't understand how so many people are willing to overlook crimes when it serves their purposes.  Isn't this the very same thing that you all criticize about Israel?  The ends never justify the means.


No, it's not the same thing at all.  Israel want to circumvent the United Nations charter that says that you can no longer take land by force.  Israel's ends are not justified.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25934221 -

"ends are not justified?"

I think maybe you misunderstand the problem.

The ends never justify the means.  In other words, if the means aren't already just, the ends can never make them just.  Snowden violating his oath isn't okay just because he thinks he's doing a good thing.  Same with Manning.  Assange's conduct isn't made just either.

Whether the outcome of Assange's conduct was a net good or evil, I don't know.  That calculation is unnecessary here because it doesn't factor into the analysis of whether or not Assange's conduct is just.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil]
    #25934250 -

So tell me (in English, not riddles) what you think Assange did that deserves him being extradited to the United States?

Or are you not arguing that?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25934273 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Do you really believe wrong-doing by the State needs to be protected?  And that it's not "excusable" to expose it?


I didn't say that. In fact, I said, "I appreciate that there is without a doubt a need for this type of rebellion."

Quote:
Are you seriously arguing that news sources don't have a right to print classified information given to them?  Maybe you should look at New York Times Co. v. United States?


And again, not what I said. My point was clear, "I also believe Assange approached this the wrong way."

Since Assange isn't a U.S. citizen, nor a visa holder, is he protected by U.S. law?


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25934302 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So tell me (in English, not riddles) what you think Assange did that deserves him being extradited to the United States?

Or are you not arguing that?


First, he should be extradited to Sweden for prosecutors to investigate the sex charges.  If those don't pan out, or after that has been resolved, he should be extradited to the U.S. to face the charges in the indictment.  If he is acquitted, he should be set free.

I'm not saying he's guilty, BTW.  I'm saying he's intentionally trying to avoid facing charges, both in Sweden and in the U.S.  He may or may not be eventually found guilty.  That's not for me to decide.


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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: christopera]
    #25934304 -

christopera said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Do you really believe wrong-doing by the State needs to be protected?  And that it's not "excusable" to expose it?


I didn't say that. In fact, I said, "I appreciate that there is without a doubt a need for this type of rebellion."


I was talking about the next part of your sentence where you said "neither evil is excusable."  Can you elaborate what "evil" you were referring to that you believe is inexcusable?

christopera said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Are you seriously arguing that news sources don't have a right to print classified information given to them?  Maybe you should look at New York Times Co. v. United States?


And again, not what I said. My point was clear, "I also believe Assange approached this the wrong way."

Since Assange isn't a U.S. citizen, nor a visa holder, is he protected by U.S. law?


Why do you feel it was wrong of Assange to post information he was given when the US Supreme Court said it was ok?  And since Assange is not a US citizen, doesn't that make it even less of our business?  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil]
    #25934308 -

Enlil said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So tell me (in English, not riddles) what you think Assange did that deserves him being extradited to the United States?


... after that has been resolved, he should be extradited to the U.S. to face the charges in the indictment.  If he is acquitted, he should be set free.


So more riddles.  Can you "tell me (in English, not riddles) what you think Assange did that deserves him being extradited to the United States?"

Or would you prefer I put it in my own words?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25934339 -

He was indicted and failed to voluntarily face those charges. That's why he should be extradited.


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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil]
    #25934712 -

Why do you not want to say what he was indicted for?  Same question to Christopera.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25934767 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I was talking about the next part of your sentence where you said "neither evil is excusable."  Can you elaborate what "evil" you were referring to that you believe is inexcusable?

Why do you feel it was wrong of Assange to post information he was given when the US Supreme Court said it was ok?  And since Assange is not a US citizen, doesn't that make it even less of our business?  :shrug:


Evil is obviously in the eye of the beholder. The United States government believes Assange is evil, Assange believes the Unites Sates government is evil. Obviously the truth is variegated.

I personally am not worried about what he posted, more so the methods he used to do so. I outlined in brief a method I would find to be more preferable.

As for my question regarding the legality I suppose it's only a matter of waiting. I'm sure we will get to see what charges are brought when he's stateside.

I will add that I don't endorse the behavior of the U.S. government, certainly not when they act illegally, and I am highly critical of many of their actions that are "legal-ish."

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Why do you not want to say what he was indicted for?  Same question to Christopera.


I don't know what he was indicted for.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25934786 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Why do you not want to say what he was indicted for?  Same question to Christopera.


I haven't read the indictment.  Does it matter what it was for?


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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: christopera] * 2
    #25934938 -

christopera said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I was talking about the next part of your sentence where you said "neither evil is excusable."  Can you elaborate what "evil" you were referring to that you believe is inexcusable?


Evil is obviously in the eye of the beholder. The United States government believes Assange is evil, Assange believes the Unites Sates government is evil. Obviously the truth is variegated.
.
.
.
I don't know what he was indicted for.


Enlil said the same.  Both of you seem to (blindly?) follow whatever the establishment media wants you to believe.

- Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?  Check
- Trump collusion with the Russian Government?  Check
- Assange doing 'something evil' that he should be extradited for?  Check

Assange was indicted for unsuccessfully helping Manning crack a password.

Most people know that Government websites are attacked well over 1,000 times each day.

Does the US attempt to extradite those hackers for their unscuccessul hacking attempts?  No, of course not.  This obviously isn't about that either.

This is about Assange being given dirt on an establishment politician, and publishing that dirt, possibly impacting an election.

Is Assange to blame for the corruption he exposed or is the DNC to blame for their own corruption?  I believe it's the latter, and the Supreme Court agrees with me.  :shrug:

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25934943 -

So,  that's a clear crime. If he's guilty,  he should be punished. Don't you agree?


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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil]
    #25934951 -

For unsuccessfully helping someone crack a password?

No, I don't think a foreigner should be extradited to the US for that.  Or else we should apply this rule consistently and try to extradite all the foreigners who try to hack into our Government websites.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25934952 -

All of them we can catch,  yes.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil]
    #25935023 -

Is it your belief that the US should extradite any American hackers that attempt to hack other Government's computers?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25935075 -

If there's a treaty and proper procedure is followed,  yes.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #25935500 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Enlil said the same.  Both of you seem to (blindly?) follow whatever the establishment media wants you to believe.

- Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?  Check
- Trump collusion with the Russian Government?  Check
- Assange doing 'something evil' that he should be extradited for?  Check

Assange was indicted for unsuccessfully helping Manning crack a password.

Most people know that Government websites are attacked well over 1,000 times each day.

Does the US attempt to extradite those hackers for their unscuccessul hacking attempts?  No, of course not.  This obviously isn't about that either.

This is about Assange being given dirt on an establishment politician, and publishing that dirt, possibly impacting an election.

Is Assange to blame for the corruption he exposed or is the DNC to blame for their own corruption?  I believe it's the latter, and the Supreme Court agrees with me.  :shrug:


What exactly are we disagreeing on? I never said I agree'd with the U.S. decision. I never said I thought the U.S. was correct in indicting Assange. Do I agree with everything Assange has done? No, and I have made that clear.

I never agreed with the Iraq war, despite having been in high school at its start. I never jumped to conclusions on Trump's collusion. I admitted that things looked shady, but I was also willing to accept the results of the report, and I maintain that I've always felt he's too stupid to successfully collude. Finally, that I believe Assange to be seen as "evil" (a point I detailed to be of perspective) in no way indicates that I believe that the U.S. should indict him. It seems to me that you've jumped to conclusions on my position.

As far as other hacking attempts are concerned, I'm confident we do things far worse than indict to those opposing the position of the state.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Edited by christopera (04/15/19 06:56 AM)

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