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OfflinePhred
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20 Arrested in London
    #5949463 - 08/10/06 02:39 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quick... before their names are made public, let's run a pool on how many of these thwarted 'splodeydopes have a "Mohammed" or "Mahmoud" as one of their names. I'll guess nine.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1230417,00.html

Quote:

Plane Terror Plot Thwarted
Updated: 07:22, Thursday August 10, 2006

Police say they have disrupted a major plot to blow up a dozen planes over UK and US cities with explosive devices smuggled aboard as hand luggage.

Police are have arrested 20 people in London - the culmination of a covert counter-terrorist operation lasting several months.

Passengers trying to board international flights from the UK are not being allowed to carry on normal hand luggage.

Sky News' Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said there were concerns that certain explosives could evade x-ray screening of hand luggage.

Brunt said the threat was thought to be imminent and those arrested were mainly young, British-born Asian men. (***note to American readers*** in the UK it is common to refer to Pakistanis and Indians as "Asian" -- Phred)

He said the alleged plan involved people boarding flights and detonating explosives on planes over UK and US cities.

The Home Secretary John Reid said the alleged plot was a "major threat" to bring down a number of planes.

The Home Office's level of security - indicating public risk - has been raised from 'severe' to 'critical'.

The swoop followed a pre-planned intelligence led operation by the Met's anti-terrorist branch and security service.

A police statement said: "This is a major operation which inevitably will be lengthy and complex. We will provide further information as soon as possible."

Lengthy queues at airports have been reported and a Transport Department spokesman said delays were inevitable.

"Passengers are being asked to allow themselves plenty of extra time and to ensure that other than the few permitted items, all their belongings are placed in their hold baggage and checked in.

"These additional security measures will make travel more difficult for passengers, particularly at such a busy time of the year.




You can bet your bottom dollar that at some point in their investiation the UK authorities violated some civil liberties. Let's all send outraged letters of protest to the British Home Office to teach them a lesson.




Phred


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5949468 - 08/10/06 02:42 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I dont understand how people get caught doing this stuff...

This is strictly hypothetical, but I work at an airport, and I can think of 10 ways I could bring down a plane. Numerous planes...

People have to be seriously incompetent. Maybe its the racial factor working against them.

Again, I'm not condoning terrorism. Blowing up planes is wrong. I'm just saying, terrorism doesnt seem to be very hard to do. But people screw it up all the time....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflinePhred
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5949483 - 08/10/06 02:47 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Like I said, they probably got caught because their civil liberties were violated. Phone taps, interception of e-mails, bugs placed in strategic locations, racial profiling, infiltration of mosques... maybe all that and more. Too bad the ACLU doesn't operate in the UK. This case cries out for ACLU involvement.




Phred


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5949497 - 08/10/06 02:57 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not biting...

:smirk:


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflinePhred
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5949521 - 08/10/06 03:04 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Okay... while this story is still in its early stages, let's have another pool on how long it takes the UK authorities to warn about a "backlash" caused by "Islamophobia" and detail groups of bobbies to protect London mosques from rampaging Brits.

I'll say four hours from the time of this post. Anyone else have a guess?




Phred


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5949547 - 08/10/06 03:16 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I love how you put "Islamophobia" in quotes, but say "Islamo-Facism" all the time like its a real thing.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflinePhred
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5949561 - 08/10/06 03:22 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I say that all the time? You have me confused with someone else. I haven't used that term in years.



Phred


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5949577 - 08/10/06 03:29 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, I admit that you and Zappa pretty much fuse together in my mind.

Less lately, since me and Zappa have been talking baseball...

But I more or less consider you the same poster.

I know you arent, but your views more or less mirror each other, and your pretty much the only Conservatives on here who can argue a coherent point.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5949655 - 08/10/06 04:24 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

What are the odds this story ranks alongside "Tanks at Heathrow" in 2003 or the "men in space suits looking for ricin" in 2004 scams?

Remember, 1000 people have been arrested since 2000 because of "terror-related offences" with only 154 charged with anything.

No doubt Blair is already planning on using this as excuse to introduce more "anti-terror" curbs on our freedom.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5949657 - 08/10/06 04:27 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

your pretty much the only Conservatives on here who can argue a coherent point.

I wouldn't go that far  :laugh:


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OfflineniCCa
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Alex213]
    #5949717 - 08/10/06 06:21 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

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Morphine & Pethidine) all balls, when it's buprenrphine i take about 1.5ml max every 1 hour plus in the past, due to their deliberate harassments noise shoutings, gossips to whole town i am a drug pusher addict ,many ppl here in Mangalore India ill treat me,
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Peace, & One :Success Bestest 2 every1 if ever this is my last here...seri, Vamp knows my inventins , modifications & they wanna know the healing secrets /Powers of shrooms...just cock talk, you know who the newbs are.Yours Truthfully,& Ad,Hat, Bix, BillyG, Gm,O, PH,Pnutb, every1...\m/Peace


--------------------
Heaveno...CU CU CU CU CU in the Highway...Peace


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5949718 - 08/10/06 06:22 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
I dont understand how people get caught doing this stuff...

This is strictly hypothetical, but I work at an airport, and I can think of 10 ways I could bring down a plane. Numerous planes...

People have to be seriously incompetent. Maybe its the racial factor working against them.

Again, I'm not condoning terrorism. Blowing up planes is wrong. I'm just saying, terrorism doesnt seem to be very hard to do. But people screw it up all the time....




if thats true..then a case could be made that its another karl rove setup (like that loose series of rants that became an "intricate plot" to blow up the holland tunnel).. however staged in the UK given credit to scotland yard so as to make it seem less obvious..since rove only needs to present the appearence of a continuing "terrorist threat" in order to scare voters to the repugnicans...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5949721 - 08/10/06 06:31 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Like I said, they probably got caught because their civil liberties were violated. Phone taps, interception of e-mails, bugs placed in strategic locations, racial profiling, infiltration of mosques... maybe all that and more. Too bad the ACLU doesn't operate in the UK. This case cries out for ACLU involvement.




assuming that is the case (which i doubt)..then your merely replacing one risk factor with another..and not making anyone safer...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5949749 - 08/10/06 07:09 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

> Before their names are made public, let's run a pool on how many of these thwarted 'splodeydopes have a "Mohammed" or "Mahmoud" as one of their names.

That would be racial profiling and we have been told that racial profiling doesn't help identify probable terrorists. See, little-ol-granny could be a bomb totting pawn for OBL. You just never know. Since racial profiling doesn't help identify probable sploidy-types, I don't think a single one of them will have a "Mohammed" or "Mahmoud" in their name.

> assuming that is the case (which i doubt)..

I had assumed he was speaking with a heavy dose of sarcasm.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinetwiggedoubt
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Seuss]
    #5949816 - 08/10/06 09:05 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

The reason they catch people is because they make this shit up. That or they entrap them, which has happened in the US 2 times already that I remeber.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: twiggedoubt]
    #5949832 - 08/10/06 09:27 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

twiggedoubt said:
The reason they catch people is because they make this shit up.  That or they entrap them, which has happened in the US 2 times already that I remeber.




So the only thing that will make you believe they would actually do it is seeing them pull it off?  Maybe they just like to brush their teeth with RDX, who are we to judge them?  :rolleyes:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950233 - 08/10/06 01:32 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Well, I dunno if the UK authorities have started guarding London mosques against Islamophobic backlash yet, but the British Parliament has wasted no time springing into action:

From http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2306

Quote:

UK Panel Asks: Why Do They Hate Airplanes?

by Scott Ott

(2006-08-10) — The British Parliament, in a rapid response to a terror plot foiled by Scotland Yard yesterday, announced formation of a study panel today to determine why some Muslims hate airplanes.

Early reports indicate 21 men have been taken into custody in connection with a plan to take down an unknown number of U.S.-bound passenger jets originating in Great Britain.

The expert panel will examine various theories about why airplanes engender such hatred among devoted followers of a peaceful religion.

“Is it the horrendous noise? The speed? The condensation trails?” said one unnamed source close to the panel, listing some of the areas of inquiry the experts plan to pursue. “Because if it’s any of those things, we can get to work on engineering changes to make airplanes more tolerable to our Muslim brothers.”








Phred


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950259 - 08/10/06 01:39 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Like I said, they probably got caught because their civil liberties were violated. Phone taps, interception of e-mails, bugs placed in strategic locations, racial profiling, infiltration of mosques... maybe all that and more. Too bad the ACLU doesn't operate in the UK. This case cries out for ACLU involvement.




Phred




So are you of the opinion that their civil liberties should not be violated, and it would be better if they killed many people. For the sake of everyone keeping their civil liberties? This is a serious question, I am trying to figure out my stance. On the one hand, many lives were saved, on the other, we are all that much closer to a police state.

Now that I think of it, it wouldn't be far fetched that this was all made up, to make people(like me) debate giving up their liberties for the sake of human life. 9/11 anyone?

This world is starting to terrify me.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950307 - 08/10/06 01:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Just to put people's minds at ease, that spoof from Scrappleface is just that -- a spoof. The British Parliament hasn't yet convened such a panel, and may never convene such a panel.

There will of course be a lot more information coming out over the next while regarding this latest venture by followers of the Religion of Peace (TM), but here is the best single summarizing article I've come across so far -- http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2306721,00.html

For a comprehensive digest of several other articles, many of which go into considerably more detail on various aspects of the plot, check out http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005696.htm




Phred


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5950347 - 08/10/06 02:00 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
Quote:

Phred said:
Like I said, they probably got caught because their civil liberties were violated. Phone taps, interception of e-mails, bugs placed in strategic locations, racial profiling, infiltration of mosques... maybe all that and more. Too bad the ACLU doesn't operate in the UK. This case cries out for ACLU involvement.




Phred




So are you of the opinion that their civil liberties should not be violated, and it would be better if they killed many people. For the sake of everyone keeping their civil liberties? This is a serious question, I am trying to figure out my stance. On the one hand, many lives were saved, on the other, we are all that much closer to a police state.

Now that I think of it, it wouldn't be far fetched that this was all made up, to make people(like me) debate giving up their liberties for the sake of human life. 9/11 anyone?

This world is starting to terrify me.





actually..the amerikkkan ppl already have made the decision to surrender their freedoms in return for their lives..despite the very glaring contradiction...

EDIT ..the timing of this event..immediately after lieberman lost in CT..is especially telling...theres talk that was about to rush to liebermans' aid..and this might well be that aid...


Edited by Annapurna1 (08/10/06 02:11 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950354 - 08/10/06 02:03 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

You can bet your bottom dollar that at some point in their investiation the UK authorities violated some civil liberties.



Evidence?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5950364 - 08/10/06 02:07 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

alpaharedecho writes:

Quote:

So are you of the opinion that their civil liberties should not be violated, and it would be better if they killed many people. For the sake of everyone keeping their civil liberties? This is a serious question, I am trying to figure out my stance. On the one hand, many lives were saved, on the other, we are all that much closer to a police state.




The thing is, the Brits have admitted to knowing about this plot for at least a year. They would have let it run longer in order to net more conspirators but they came across some as yet unspecified piece of information which convinced them it would be dangerous to delay the bust much longer.

It is not unreasonable to speculate that the NSA communications intercept program may have played some part in their investigation, or the SWIFT bank clearing house program for tracking terrorist money movement. There are an awful lot of people assuring us that both those programs were violations of civil liberties.

As well, the information we have so far is that the plot was discovered through information coming out of Pakistan. We all know there are a lot of Jihadis being captured in the Pakistan/Afghanistan border area. It is not impossible the information came from captured Jihadis who were interrogated more vigorously than many people believe is acceptable. Perhaps they were forced to listen to loud rock and roll music, or they had fake menstrual blood smeared on them, or had woman jailers rub up against them suggestively, or were forced to watch a Koran being flushed down the toilet, and the psychological strain of these outrages made them crack and spill their guts.

Or maybe they were even secretly flown to Guantanamo Bay and held without being charged with war crimes and forcefully fed to prevent them from suiciding through hunger strikes. Or physically restrained from hanging themselves. Who knows what other vile practices may have been perpetrated on these folks to obtain this information? Let your imagination run wild.

Quote:

Now that I think of it, it wouldn't be far fetched that this was all made up, to make people(like me) debate giving up their liberties for the sake of human life.




:tinfoil:









Phred


--------------------


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950373 - 08/10/06 02:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not saying that's what happened, but I am saying it wouldn't be far fetched.

You believe there is a 0% possibility that the government faked this and found some poor bastards to plant evidence on?


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Silversoul]
    #5950374 - 08/10/06 02:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Don't be naive, Silversoul. Of course civil liberties have been violated. Racial profiling alone is a violation of civil liberties, don'tcha know. Let's not forget that many of these suspects are described as being of Pakistani descent. If that's not racial profiling, what is?



Phred


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OfflinePhred
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5950379 - 08/10/06 02:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

You believe there is a 0% possibility that the government faked this and found some poor bastards to plant evidence on?




Yup.





Phred


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950383 - 08/10/06 02:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Let's not forget that many of these suspects are described as being of Pakistani descent. If that's not racial profiling, what is?



I seem to have missed the day in class where they said that mentioning someone's race is the same as racial profiling. I was under the impression that it involved specifically targeting people because of their race.


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950387 - 08/10/06 02:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

You believe there is a 0% possibility that the government faked this and found some poor bastards to plant evidence on?




Yup.





Phred




and your calling me a moonbat :rotfl:..sheezus...


--------------------


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950396 - 08/10/06 02:15 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

You believe there is a 0% possibility that the government faked this and found some poor bastards to plant evidence on?




Yup.





Phred




It's people like you that allow governments to get too powerful, you must asses ALL possibilities, no matter how out their they are. Of course that is just my opinion, and my motto, question EVERYTHING.

Let me ask you this, do you believe the official 9/11 report also?  :rolleyes:


--------------------
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"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

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OfflinePhred
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Silversoul]
    #5950402 - 08/10/06 02:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I was under the impression that it involved specifically targeting people because of their race.




Exactly. Doesn't the fact that so many of the suspects are of Pakistani heritage strike you as a little bit convenient? They are being set up by the UK government as patsies just because of their race. I mean, let's look at this -- none of the people usually selected for such careful scrutiny at airport security are mentioned. Do we see mention of grannies with canes or Danish girl scouts or Presbyterian clergymen? No we do not.

I rest my case.





Phred


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950427 - 08/10/06 02:24 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Exactly. Doesn't the fact that so many of the suspects are of Pakistani heritage strike you as a little bit convenient?



Not really. If they caught a few leads on some of the conspirators, then further investigation would lead to other suspects, who happen to have been Pakistani(unless you're suggesting that some of them were falsely accused based on their race).

Quote:

I rest my case.



Any competent judge would throw out your case in two seconds.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950460 - 08/10/06 02:34 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

From what I'm seeing on CNN and the BBC, it wasn't over-reaching British police procedures that thwarted the terror attack, but an arrest in Pakistan that pretty much exposed the plot.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/10/us.security/index.html


--------------------


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Silversoul]
    #5950469 - 08/10/06 02:36 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Sigh.

Silversoul, you've been around here long enough to know my views on these matters. I am being facetious, here. I thought my earlier comments re the ACLU would have tipped off the veteran posters.

Were civil rights violated? Perhaps. Depends how one defines "civil rights", doesn't it? My point is that you can bet your bottom dollar the barking moonbats will insist civil liberties were violated. Those who aren't insisting the whole thing is Rovian conspiracy to take pressure off of Bush, that is.





Phred


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5950470 - 08/10/06 02:37 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
From what I'm seeing on CNN and the BBC, it wasn't over-reaching British police procedures that thwarted the terror attack, but an arrest in Pakistan that pretty much exposed the plot.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/10/us.security/index.html



Good work, detective. :thumbup:

Interesting how investigation can turn up more truth than wild speculation.


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5950504 - 08/10/06 02:46 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Read my earlier comments. The Brits have been working on this for a year. In an investigation as long as that, tracking as many people as they did (reports say they are still looking to round up another 50 "in connection" with the plot) it is almost inevitable that somewhere along the way an investigator cut a corner on his paperwork, thus opening the door to accusations of violating civil liberties.

And again, what if some of the info surfaced as a result of the NSA communications intercept program? There are still a whole hell of a lot of people (many who post in this forum, in fact) who argue the NSA program was a massive violation of civil liberties. If there was a connection to folks in Pakistan -- and it seems obvious there was such a connection, from the reports we have at the moment -- I find it impossible to believe there was no electronic communication between the plotters and folks in Pakistan, and that is precisely the kind of communications the NSA program monitored.




Phred


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Silversoul]
    #5950515 - 08/10/06 02:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Silversoul, the post Basilides linked repeats what I had already said -- the latest info from Pakistan the Brits received led them to pounce now rather than to continue to let the conspirators run. The investigation itself is -- according to the Brits -- a year old. These folks were already under surveillance and had been for quite some time -- that's why they were able to be rounded up in a matter of hours.



Phred


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950813 - 08/10/06 04:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Forgive me if I don't gasp in horror at the possible attack. I've been lied to far too many times by our govt to believe every turd that comes out of their ass. Is it possible this is true? Certainly. However, after seeing the other obvious fake terror plots (miami) I am going to view this with a VERY healthy dose of skepticism.


--------------------
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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5950867 - 08/10/06 05:09 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

thats what ive been trying to tell everyone..to no avail...


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950870 - 08/10/06 05:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Like I said, they probably got caught because their civil liberties were violated. Phone taps, interception of e-mails, bugs placed in strategic locations, racial profiling, infiltration of mosques... maybe all that and more. Too bad the ACLU doesn't operate in the UK. This case cries out for ACLU involvement.

Phred




As long as lawful procedures were followed, and I have no reason to believe they were not, then no civilliberties were violated. The police and security services have a right and duty to investigate and prevent crime, however they must do so within the laws of the land. There are lawful provisions for bugging, tapping, infiltrating etc., its all about ensuring power is not abused.

As for racial profiling, I am curious, how do you think that would help?

edit: typos


Edited by psilomonkey (08/10/06 05:48 PM)


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: psilomonkey]
    #5950874 - 08/10/06 05:13 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psilomonkey said:
As long as lawful procedures were followed, and a have no reason to believe they were not, then no civil liberties were violated. The police and security have and right and duty to investigate and prevent crime, however they must do so within the laws of the land. There are lawful provisions for bugging, tapping, infiltrating etc., its all about ensuring power is not abused.



Wow, someone gets it! :thumbup:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5950914 - 08/10/06 05:39 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quick... before their names are made public, let's run a pool on how many of these thwarted 'splodeydopes have a "Mohammed" or "Mahmoud" as one of their names. I'll guess nine.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1230417,00.html

Quote:

Plane Terror Plot Thwarted
Updated: 07:22, Thursday August 10, 2006

Police say they have disrupted a major plot to blow up a dozen planes over UK and US cities with explosive devices smuggled aboard as hand luggage.

Police are have arrested 20 people in London - the culmination of a covert counter-terrorist operation lasting several months.

Passengers trying to board international flights from the UK are not being allowed to carry on normal hand luggage.

Sky News' Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said there were concerns that certain explosives could evade x-ray screening of hand luggage.

Brunt said the threat was thought to be imminent and those arrested were mainly young, British-born Asian men. (***note to American readers*** in the UK it is common to refer to Pakistanis and Indians as "Asian" -- Phred)

He said the alleged plan involved people boarding flights and detonating explosives on planes over UK and US cities.

The Home Secretary John Reid said the alleged plot was a "major threat" to bring down a number of planes.

The Home Office's level of security - indicating public risk - has been raised from 'severe' to 'critical'.

The swoop followed a pre-planned intelligence led operation by the Met's anti-terrorist branch and security service.

A police statement said: "This is a major operation which inevitably will be lengthy and complex. We will provide further information as soon as possible."

Lengthy queues at airports have been reported and a Transport Department spokesman said delays were inevitable.

"Passengers are being asked to allow themselves plenty of extra time and to ensure that other than the few permitted items, all their belongings are placed in their hold baggage and checked in.

"These additional security measures will make travel more difficult for passengers, particularly at such a busy time of the year.




You can bet your bottom dollar that at some point in their investiation the UK authorities violated some civil liberties. Let's all send outraged letters of protest to the British Home Office to teach them a lesson.

Phred




I'm posting this after seeing Phred's Over/Under line at 9 without going anywhere else. No shit. I'm going to go.......drum roll.....
OVER. Just because I heard there were 21 arrested and I think that's an edge.

I bet the NYTimes fires its entire London bureau because they didn't break the news two days ago that they were going down. Fucking slackers.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5950919 - 08/10/06 05:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Yeah, I admit that you and Zappa pretty much fuse together in my mind.

Less lately, since me and Zappa have been talking baseball...

But I more or less consider you the same poster.

I know you arent, but your views more or less mirror each other, and your pretty much the only Conservatives on here who can argue a coherent point.




Now there's a testimonial I'll be happy to put on my gravestone.


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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5951127 - 08/10/06 06:44 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but I was watching MSNBC today and they were interviewing an "expert" and the question that came up was regarding mosques as breading grounds for terrorists. it was pretty rediculous. They talked about bugging mosques and other stuff, they were basically stereotyping the whole religion.


--------------------
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5952049 - 08/10/06 11:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

99% of the people who plan to engage or who are engaging in terrorist acts against civilians nowadays are Muslim extremists. I see no problem with focusing on them or infiltrating the "Muslim world" in order to root these nutjobs out.


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5952599 - 08/11/06 01:42 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Are bombs falling from planes not terrifying?


--------------------
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5952951 - 08/11/06 04:38 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
99% of the people who plan to engage or who are engaging in terrorist acts against civilians nowadays are Muslim extremists. I see no problem with focusing on them or infiltrating the "Muslim world" in order to root these nutjobs out.



Maybe so, but in order to really find out what's going on, we need to win the trust of Muslims, so they're willing to help us find the terrorists in their communities.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5953088 - 08/11/06 07:22 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You believe there is a 0% possibility that the government faked this and found some poor bastards to plant evidence on?

You conspiracy theorists have missed your calling. Ever consider stand up comedy? You'd be an instant hit.  :rolleyes:


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (08/11/06 07:33 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Diploid]
    #5953114 - 08/11/06 08:17 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

> You believe there is a 0% possibility that the government faked this and found some poor bastards to plant evidence on?

Wow... and they found a look-a-like and sound-a-like to record the "martyr tapes" that have been discovered that were meant to be broadcast after the sploidy-types sploided themselves.

Oh wait, I know!!! It was Israel... they wanted to take attention away from their battle with terrorists so they staged this... yeah, thats it...


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Seuss]
    #5953290 - 08/11/06 10:50 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Rove did it.


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Silversoul]
    #5953368 - 08/11/06 11:46 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Maybe so, but in order to really find out what's going on, we need to win the trust of Muslims, so they're willing to help us find the terrorists in their communities.




Do you seriously think thats how it'll work? That someone in the "inner circle" of terrorist planning will be so happy that we are all buddy-buddy with him that he'll sell out to us? Most likely not. Best method? Finding one terrorist and giving him a 'vigorous interrogation', act on that information and deal with the rest of them.


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Diploid]
    #5953390 - 08/11/06 12:03 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
You believe there is a 0% possibility that the government faked this and found some poor bastards to plant evidence on?

You conspiracy theorists have missed your calling. Ever consider stand up comedy? You'd be an instant hit.  :rolleyes:




Look, I think this is the real deal, but you can't say there is a 0% chance of it being not what it appears. You sheep missed your calling, ever considered being made into my meal? I bet you would be tender and juicy.  :smirk:


--------------------
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Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5953468 - 08/11/06 12:51 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Do you seriously think thats how it'll work?



That's how the people within the army say it has been working. In Afghanistan, they've relied heavily on information obtained from the locals in order to find terrorists. In order to do that, they've had to win their trust.


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Silversoul]
    #5953656 - 08/11/06 02:07 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Do you seriously think thats how it'll work?




According to the Evening Standard newspaper I read today, the investigation was started in December after a tip-off from 'a member of the Muslim community'.

So, yes I do.


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Silversoul]
    #5953704 - 08/11/06 02:24 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
That's how the people within the army say it has been working. In Afghanistan, they've relied heavily on information obtained from the locals in order to find terrorists. In order to do that, they've had to win their trust.




I'd say that most Muslims already picked a side on this one. The locals that are helping probably despise the Taliban, so they work with the military. Not many Taliban/Al-Qeada types are going to have some hearts and minds bullshit work to "convert" them and make them flip. Any sources that show what you are claiming actually happening?


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5955758 - 08/12/06 07:27 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Well, I dunno if the UK authorities have started guarding London mosques against Islamophobic backlash yet, but the British Parliament has wasted no time springing into action:

From http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2306

Quote:

UK Panel Asks: Why Do They Hate Airplanes?

by Scott Ott


The expert panel will examine various theories about why airplanes engender such hatred among devoted followers of a peaceful religion.

“Is it the horrendous noise? The speed? The condensation trails?” said one unnamed source close to the panel, listing some of the areas of inquiry the experts plan to pursue. “Because if it’s any of those things, we can get to work on engineering changes to make airplanes more tolerable to our Muslim brothers.”



Phred




jesus christ :rolleyes:

fucking noise my arse and pullution?:lol:
nearly every leb i know has a hotted up little shitbox with oversized mufflers and a doof box designed perfectly for disturbing the peace,another conspired plan to disrupt a peaceful country imo

i can answer the question tho..
theyre sitting in a dust bowl scratching for food and when a ufo flys obove them,they look up at freedom and become overwhelmed with self loathing and resentment at the thought of greener pastures that must exist beyond their self mafe hellholes


Edited by quiver (08/12/06 07:43 AM)


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: quiver]
    #5956195 - 08/12/06 01:26 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I'm willing to wager that there will be no backlash against British Muslims for the simple reason that it was British Muslims who ultimately stopped this attack.


--------------------


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5957088 - 08/12/06 07:21 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
I'm willing to wager that there will be no backlash against British Muslims for the simple reason that it was British Muslims who ultimately stopped this attack.




What the fuck are you talking about?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5957290 - 08/12/06 08:56 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I'm willing to wager that there will be no backlash against British Muslims for the simple reason that ...




That's a totally safe bet for the simple reason that's there's NEVER a backlash against Muslims, British or other.

One of the very first things that happens whenever a Jihadi atrocity hits the news is a warning to guard against a "backlash". It's getting so predictable that whenever I hear warnings about "backlash" I automatically think, "Oh, fuck. What have they gone and blown up THIS time?" Strangely, the predicted backlash never occurs.

It takes almost nothing to get the Islamo-nuts out into the streets, seething and ululating -- a Piglet cup on some secretary's desk, some lame cartoons in a Danish newspaper, a Burger King graphic on an ice cream cone...

But the revelation of yet another mass murder plot by Islamic murderers? Ho hum. Not even worth the effort of sauntering down to the mosque and spray painting a few obscenities on it. Why bother? "That's just what they do, old chap. Another 'dog bites man' story. No biggie."




Phred


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5958071 - 08/13/06 02:07 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

I'm willing to wager that there will be no backlash against British Muslims for the simple reason that ...




That's a totally safe bet for the simple reason that's there's NEVER a backlash against Muslims, British or other.

One of the very first things that happens whenever a Jihadi atrocity hits the news is a warning to guard against a "backlash". It's getting so predictable that whenever I hear warnings about "backlash" I automatically think, "Oh, fuck. What have they gone and blown up THIS time?" Strangely, the predicted backlash never occurs.

It takes almost nothing to get the Islamo-nuts out into the streets, seething and ululating -- a Piglet cup on some secretary's desk, some lame cartoons in a Danish newspaper, a Burger King graphic on an ice cream cone... 

But the revelation of yet another mass murder plot by Islamic murderers? Ho hum. Not even worth the effort of sauntering down to the mosque and spray painting a few obscenities on it. Why bother? "That's just what they do, old chap. Another 'dog bites man' story. No biggie."




Phred




I agree, I always hear about this fabled backlash but it never happens. Maybe there should be a backlash and Muslims might realize there are consequences to this shit. Also, the moderate, reasonable Muslims will distance themselves from the fanatics, even helping us capture them.

Then again, we have invaded countries for such acts, so I don't know if anything will deter these fanatics.

If I had 72 virgins coming to me in the afterlife, I may do the same.  :rolleyes:


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Phred]
    #5958104 - 08/13/06 02:22 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

The backlashes are quite real. There were backlashes after 9-11 (including attacks on Sikhs), after Madrid, the London bombings and Theo van Gogh's murder. Just about every Al Qaeda attack on Western soil has produced some kind of backlash against the local Muslim population. Islamic terrorism in India will almost certainly produce backlashing that borderlines rioting. When 7 Nepalese contractors were killed in Iraq in 2004, one of Kathmandu's prominent mosques was burned to the ground by an angry mob. Granted, most of the time it's rarely serious. Most of it only consists of vandalism, and a portion of it seems to be misdirected towards completely different religious/ethnic groups who are mistaken as Muslim.


--------------------


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5958198 - 08/13/06 02:51 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
The backlashes are quite real. There were backlashes after 9-11 (including attacks on Sikhs), after Madrid, the London bombings and Theo van Gogh's murder. Just about every Al Qaeda attack on Western soil has produced some kind of backlash against the local Muslim population.




and so they should get backlashed,its funny how all the islamic leaders say their people arent violent but on the flip of the coin they "know our islamic youth (who leech from our countries)will retaliate and riot if we don't get our way"


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5958230 - 08/13/06 03:01 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
The backlashes are quite real. There were backlashes after 9-11 (including attacks on Sikhs), after Madrid, the London bombings and Theo van Gogh's murder. Just about every Al Qaeda attack on Western soil has produced some kind of backlash against the local Muslim population. Islamic terrorism in India will almost certainly produce backlashing that borderlines rioting. When 7 Nepalese contractors were killed in Iraq in 2004, one of Kathmandu's prominent mosques was burned to the ground by an angry mob. Granted, most of the time it's rarely serious. Most of it only consists of vandalism, and a portion of it seems to be misdirected towards completely different religious/ethnic groups who are mistaken as Muslim.




If a cartoon kills multiple people(in backlash), what would a 9/11 event cause(in backlash)?

I think we've handled such incidents rather well, compared to a fucking cartoon.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


Edited by alpharedecho (08/13/06 03:03 AM)


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: quiver]
    #5958242 - 08/13/06 03:07 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

quiver said:
Quote:

Basilides said:
The backlashes are quite real. There were backlashes after 9-11 (including attacks on Sikhs), after Madrid, the London bombings and Theo van Gogh's murder. Just about every Al Qaeda attack on Western soil has produced some kind of backlash against the local Muslim population. 




and so they should get backlashed,its funny how all the islamic leaders say their people arent violent but on the flip of the coin they "know our islamic youth (who leech from our countries)will retaliate and riot if we don't get our way"




:thumbup: Imagine what would happen to us, if we pulled this shit in THEIR countries.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


Edited by alpharedecho (08/13/06 03:08 AM)


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Invisiblequiver
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5958262 - 08/13/06 03:27 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

they'd shoot us in the airport terminals when we arrived :lol:

the UN wouldnt condemn them,they'd say we must have offended them in their land for trimming our goatees and looking the wrong way at an ugly tranvestite dressed in hijab



if the 72 virgins look anything like them,i'd be happy to raost in hell


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: quiver]
    #5958270 - 08/13/06 03:31 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

lol, you'r one funny dood quivy.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5958275 - 08/13/06 03:34 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

thanks man,you aint half bad yourself :wink:


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5958370 - 08/13/06 04:59 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
lol, you'r one funny dood quivy.




You defend the people that want you dead.


--------------------



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Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: quiver]
    #5958779 - 08/13/06 12:48 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

quiver said:
Quote:

Basilides said:
The backlashes are quite real. There were backlashes after 9-11 (including attacks on Sikhs), after Madrid, the London bombings and Theo van Gogh's murder. Just about every Al Qaeda attack on Western soil has produced some kind of backlash against the local Muslim population.




and so they should get backlashed,its funny how all the islamic leaders say their people arent violent but on the flip of the coin they "know our islamic youth (who leech from our countries)will retaliate and riot if we don't get our way"




But these Mooooooooslems are obviously part of the world wide Islamist conspiracy right? We all know that 100% of evil Moooooooooslems in the world are all a part of the big picture to conquer the world and turn it into an evil Kheeeeeeeelafa


--------------------


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5958809 - 08/13/06 01:00 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

The Muslim community in Britain responds by demanding Britain change it's foreign policy
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4786159.stm

" Prime Minister, As British Muslims we urge you to do more to fight against all those who target civilians with violence, whenever and wherever that happens.

It is our view that current British government policy risks putting civilians at increased risk both in the UK and abroad.

To combat terror the government has focused extensively on domestic legislation. While some of this will have an impact, the government must not ignore the role of its foreign policy.

The debacle of Iraq and now the failure to do more to secure an immediate end to the attacks on civilians in the Middle East not only increases the risk to ordinary people in that region, it is also ammunition to extremists who threaten us all.

Attacking civilians is never justified. This message is a global one. We urge the Prime Minister to redouble his efforts to tackle terror and extremism and change our foreign policy to show the world that we value the lives of civilians wherever they live and whatever their religion.

Such a move would make us all safer."

You will be assimilated or you will be destroyed. End of transmission


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5958856 - 08/13/06 01:16 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I suppose all the evil Maaaaaaaawzlums who want the war in Iraq to end are all part of the sinister Kheeeeeelafa conspiracy, right?


--------------------


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5958875 - 08/13/06 01:26 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

If you cannot see this

"To combat terror the government has focused extensively on domestic legislation. While some of this will have an impact, the government must not ignore the role of its foreign policy."

coupled with this

"it is also ammunition to extremists who threaten us all."

as a threat, you are a fool and have already surrendered. There are more than enough practical reasons for deposing Hussein and the Taliban, disarming Hezbollah and cutting out any support for Hamas. We must not give in to extortion and these are supposed to be the so-called peaceful majority of Muslims. It's like the bank robbers union promising not to use guns if we'll just open the vault. I don't think that's going to happen.


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5958926 - 08/13/06 01:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

No; taking out the Talban as the U.S. did (and then bringing in alot of multi-national peacekeepers) was perhaps the only logical enactment of foreign policy towards the Mideast, as Afghanistan was a wild land literally harboring Osama bin Laden. Invading Iraq has been an ominous fuck up that gave Zarqawi a new career opportunity and early retirement. I'm surprised wingnuts still actually defend the original incursion. And Hezbollah. After a month of air raids killing over 900 civilians, Nasrallah is still pontificating on television from wherever the fuck he is, and Hezbollah is still firing an endless array of rockets into Israel. Despite all the yapping about disarming Hezbollah, they're still functional and the current cease-fire talks will probably actually have to involve some compliancy on the part of Hezbollah now. Way to fight terrorism.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5958957 - 08/13/06 02:06 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

We disagree on Iraq and agree, apparently, that Israel should not be stopped in killing Hezbolloids. Why anyone would have any expectation that it would be easily or swiftly completed is beyond me. The level of difficulty does not, however, have anything at all to do with the necessity of completing the task. Further, their functionality is degraded every day, they cannot be reinforced, their escape routes are mostly eliminated and they do NOT have an endless supply of rockets. I question your "civilian" number and, in the end, think that completing the job now will actually minimize "civilian" casualties. But I'm not a short-sighted surrender monkey.



I think this ceasefire is a trap for Hezbollah, if it ever comes about at all, but I'd rather just see it wrapped up here with as total a destruction of them as possible. For once they're actually poking their dicks out to fight. Kind of. From hospitals and villages but they're still trying to engage. And Syria and Iran need to stop fucking up their Muslim brothers. Or is that what they're up to anyway?


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5959047 - 08/13/06 02:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

We disagree on Iraq and agree, apparently, that Israel should not be stopped in killing Hezbolloids. Why anyone would have any expectation that it would be easily or swiftly completed is beyond me. The level of difficulty does not, however, have anything at all to do with the necessity of completing the task.




What Israel should have done is send in ground troops right off the bat. Instead they bombarded the infrastructure of the country, killing mostly civilians. Most of the Hezbolloids that have been killed so far have been killed in clashes on the ground with Israeli foot soldiers.

Quote:

Further, their functionality is degraded every day, they cannot be reinforced, their escape routes are mostly eliminated and they do NOT have an endless supply of rockets. I question your "civilian" number and, in the end, think that completing the job now will actually minimize "civilian" casualties. But I'm not a short-sighted surrender monkey.




This will minimize civilian deaths? More Lebanese civilians have been killed in the past month than Israelis murdered by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Brigades and Hezbollah combined during the last 6 years. Regionally, this isn't good.

http://newsinfo.inq7.net/breakingnews/world/view_article.php?article_id=13529

Quote:

I think this ceasefire is a trap for Hezbollah, if it ever comes about at all, but I'd rather just see it wrapped up here with as total a destruction of them as possible. For once they're actually poking their dicks out to fight. Kind of. From hospitals and villages but they're still trying to engage. And Syria and Iran need to stop fucking up their Muslim brothers. Or is that what they're up to anyway?




I think the upcoming cease fire will only benefit Hezbollah. 15,000 Lebanese troops along with other multi-nationals are expected to move in as the Israelis move out. Do you honestly think these guys are going to take on whatever is left of Hezbollah? The only way to defeat Hezbollah is with Israeli troops; on the ground, not from the sky.


--------------------


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5959050 - 08/13/06 02:32 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, amazing how every single hezbollah soldier manages to shoot rockets from just behind a large clump of civilians.... *rolls eyes*


--------------------
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5959154 - 08/13/06 03:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

We disagree on Iraq and agree, apparently, that Israel should not be stopped in killing Hezbolloids. Why anyone would have any expectation that it would be easily or swiftly completed is beyond me. The level of difficulty does not, however, have anything at all to do with the necessity of completing the task.




What Israel should have done is send in ground troops right off the bat. Instead they bombarded the infrastructure of the country, killing mostly civilians. Most of the Hezbolloids that have been killed so far have been killed in clashes on the ground with Israeli foot soldiers.





They weren't ready. It takes time to deploy an appropriate level of ground troops and to mobilize. They still did it amazingly fast. The bombing of infrastructure was to cut off supply and retreat lines as well as command and control, like Hezbollah HQ in the middle of Beirut. Then there is the bombing of rocket launchers deliberately set up in residential areas. As to the casualty figures, I don't think anybody knows what they are for the Lebanese. I can guarantee the civilian numbers are inflated and the Hezzy numbers are, according to them, zero. Because they are the finest fighters in the world. Ever.
Quote:


Quote:

Further, their functionality is degraded every day, they cannot be reinforced, their escape routes are mostly eliminated and they do NOT have an endless supply of rockets. I question your "civilian" number and, in the end, think that completing the job now will actually minimize "civilian" casualties. But I'm not a short-sighted surrender monkey.




This will minimize civilian deaths? More Lebanese civilians have been killed in the past month than Israelis murdered by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Brigades and Hezbollah combined during the last 6 years. Regionally, this isn't good.

http://newsinfo.inq7.net/breakingnews/world/view_article.php?article_id=13529





As I stated above, I do not trust the casualty figures out of Lebanon and find these to be laughable. Also more than a week old. Equally outdated but more reliable:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107AP_Mideast_Fighting_Casualty_Glance.html
"As of Sunday Israeli security officials said they had confirmed the deaths of 165 Hezbollah fighters and estimated that about 250 others had been killed."
Maybe Hezbollah should have thought of that before they decided to invade Israel, and fire rockets from apartment buildings and build ammo supply dumps in residential areas. If they are not prevented from repeating this, with either their destruction or the populace finally figuring out that it doesn't do them any good to have these criminals, then they will repeat it. And there will be a resumption of hostilities and more poor babies will be killed and another half assed peace and a restart and more babies killed and another half assed peace and a restart and more babies killed and another half assed peace and a restart and more babies killed and another half assed peace and a restart and more babies killed and another half assed peace and a restart and more babies killed. Get the picture yet.
Quote:



Quote:

I think this ceasefire is a trap for Hezbollah, if it ever comes about at all, but I'd rather just see it wrapped up here with as total a destruction of them as possible. For once they're actually poking their dicks out to fight. Kind of. From hospitals and villages but they're still trying to engage. And Syria and Iran need to stop fucking up their Muslim brothers. Or is that what they're up to anyway?




I think the upcoming cease fire will only benefit Hezbollah. 15,000 Lebanese troops along with other multi-nationals are expected to move in as the Israelis move out. Do you honestly think these guys are going to take on whatever is left of Hezbollah? The only way to defeat Hezbollah is with Israeli troops; on the ground, not from the sky.




We agree there, except for the no-sky part. My thoughts vis-a-vis the "trap" thing is that Hez will never accede to disarmament. Already today there seems to be a bit of a disconnect from the Hez/Leb side.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/13/mideast.main/index.html?section=cnn_topstories
"The two Hezbollah members of the Lebanese Cabinet said Saturday the militia wanted to keep its weapons south of the Litani River -- a zone the U.N. resolution calls for demilitarizing.

Yet the Cabinet unanimously approved the resolution. Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah indicated that the two Hezbollah ministers voted for it in a spirit of national unity.

The Lebanese Cabinet planned to meet Sunday to discuss implementing the plan, but then postponed the meeting for up to two days.

A Lebanese government minister said the postponement came at the request of parliamentary speaker Nabih Berri, a key negotiator with Hezbollah, to give government officials more time to discuss the plan with Hezbollah."

This is the trap. They cannot abide by the terms and exist, so they will be hunted down and slaughtered. Like the vermin they are.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5959164 - 08/13/06 03:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Yes, amazing how every single hezbollah soldier manages to shoot rockets from just behind a large clump of civilians.... *rolls eyes*




Is it your position, Helmut, that that is a difficult thing to do? Or that surely such fine fellow Jooooo haters would never stoop to such nefarious acts? And, if you don't mind, would you please look up the difference between the concepts of "whole" and "part". Under those general headings you will find the necessary distinction to discern the differences between "some and any" versus "all and every". Have fun at the library.


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: downforpot]
    #5959244 - 08/13/06 03:48 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

downforpot said:
Quote:

alpharedecho said:
lol, you'r one funny dood quivy.




You defend the people that want you dead.




I don't want anyone dead.  :confused:


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5959625 - 08/13/06 05:57 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
Quote:

downforpot said:
Quote:

alpharedecho said:
lol, you'r one funny dood quivy.




You defend the people that want you dead.




I don't want anyone dead.  :confused:




You the Jews dead and Muslims to have full control of that region. Then they won't have anyone to stop them in that region so then they can finally try to start the empire, again.


--------------------



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Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: downforpot]
    #5959733 - 08/13/06 06:26 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I don't want Jews dead, I want them to stop fucking with the world like it's a game(Zionists). This is exactly what I am talking about, you can't criticize the Jewish state with out "wanting them dead". Fucking ridiculous.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


Edited by alpharedecho (08/13/06 06:27 PM)


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5959825 - 08/13/06 06:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
I don't want Jews dead, I want them to stop fucking with the world like it's a game(Zionists). This is exactly what I am talking about, you can't criticize the Jewish state with out "wanting them dead". Fucking ridiculous.




They have been given a tiny resource-free slice of the middle east. Muslims have been given enormous stretches of oil rich territory. There's no "fucking game" going on. They have the right to defend themselves. Given all that, there is a conceivable criticism of Israel that does not amount to support for genocide. You, however, have not come anywhere near that criterion and clearly just wish them gone.


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5959859 - 08/13/06 07:02 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

If you say so zappa.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5959867 - 08/13/06 07:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

alpharedecho said:
I don't want Jews dead, I want them to stop fucking with the world like it's a game(Zionists). This is exactly what I am talking about, you can't criticize the Jewish state with out "wanting them dead". Fucking ridiculous.




They have been given a tiny resource-free slice of the middle east. Muslims have been given enormous stretches of oil rich territory. There's no "fucking game" going on. They have the right to defend themselves. Given all that, there is a conceivable criticism of Israel that does not amount to support for genocide. You, however, have not come anywhere near that criterion and clearly just wish them gone.




So are you saying that you are a nazi by saying you want all jews dead?


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: downforpot]
    #5959934 - 08/13/06 07:22 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

What are you talking about?


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5960228 - 08/13/06 09:06 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
What are you talking about?




The question is what you are talking about when you said you want all jews dead.

Zionists think the world is a game? Who hasn't thought the world was a game? Romans? Great Britain? Alexander? Caesar? USA?

And it's not a game, it's the world, that is how it is. I am sorry that it's not happy hour 24/7 and no one tries to better themselves, their family, and their friends. What I don't get is why didn't the Jews capture oil rich land and then make a shitload of money, I mean FUCK, if you are gonna capture land I say capture something from which you can make billions, LOL.

Basicall the Jews are doing the same thing USA did, is doing, same thing Rome did, same thing Alexander did, etc etc, the list goes on.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


Edited by downforpot (08/13/06 09:07 PM)


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: downforpot]
    #5962125 - 08/14/06 11:33 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

downforpot said:
Quote:

alpharedecho said:
What are you talking about?




The question is what you are talking about when you said you want all jews dead.

Zionists think the world is a game? Who hasn't thought the world was a game? Romans? Great Britain? Alexander? Caesar? USA?

And it's not a game, it's the world, that is how it is. I am sorry that it's not happy hour 24/7 and no one tries to better themselves, their family, and their friends.  What I don't get is why didn't the Jews capture oil rich land and then make a shitload of money, I mean FUCK, if you are gonna capture land I say capture something from which you can make billions, LOL.

Basicall the Jews are doing the same thing USA did, is doing, same thing Rome did, same thing Alexander did, etc etc, the list goes on. 




Please show me where I said I want all Jews dead, and then I will answer you.  :smirk:


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5962357 - 08/14/06 01:02 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

They weren't ready. It takes time to deploy an appropriate level of ground troops and to mobilize. They still did it amazingly fast.




It wasn't a matter of time. An organized military can make ground incursions over-night if it needed to. Israel has done it numerous times in the occupied territories following major suicide attacks. There is now apt criticism that the ground offensive was delayed and slow/timid by the time it materialized.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/01/news/mideast.php

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1840598,00.html

Quote:

The bombing of infrastructure was to cut off supply and retreat lines as well as command and control, like Hezbollah HQ in the middle of Beirut. Then there is the bombing of rocket launchers deliberately set up in residential areas. As to the casualty figures, I don't think anybody knows what they are for the Lebanese. I can guarantee the civilian numbers are inflated and the Hezzy numbers are, according to them, zero. Because they are the finest fighters in the world. Ever.




The bombardment of the Lebanese infrastructure included hitting unsubstantiated (as in not confirmed as hostile) civilian vehicles south of the Litani ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4781551.stm ), the bombing of infrastructure in non-Hezbollah dominated territory, including the basic civilian infrastructure of Beirut itself, which is located partially on a pseudo-peninsula with no evasive tactical purpose for Hezbollah. Several human rights organizations (including Israeli ones) have condemned both the Israeli air offensive and pretty much all of Hezbollah's engagement tactics.

Quote:

As I stated above, I do not trust the casualty figures out of Lebanon and find these to be laughable. Also more than a week old. Equally outdated but more reliable:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107AP_Mideast_Fighting_Casualty_Glance.html
"As of Sunday Israeli security officials said they had confirmed the deaths of 165 Hezbollah fighters and estimated that about 250 others had been killed."
Maybe Hezbollah should have thought of that before they decided to invade Israel, and fire rockets from apartment buildings and build ammo supply dumps in residential areas. If they are not prevented from repeating this, with either their destruction or the populace finally figuring out that it doesn't do them any good to have these criminals, then they will repeat it.




To be honest, I didn't expect the Lebanese death toll to exceed a couple hundred when this conflict initially began. At 700+ now (and that's not counting the missing), and rising with each day, the death toll is quickly approaching the lone Israeli fatality rate of the past 6 years of Palestinian violence if it hasn't already. And that's willfully ignoring the number of Palestinians killed (which are well over 2000) by Israeli hostilities in the past 6 years. Ethically, few in this world are going to support such domestic security measures that generate more bloodshed than what was originally problematic.

Quote:

And there will be a resumption of hostilities and more poor babies will be killed and another half assed peace and a restart and more babies killed and another half assed peace and a restart and more babies killed and another half assed peace and a restart and more babies killed and another half assed peace and a restart and more babies killed and another half assed peace and a restart and more babies killed. Get the picture yet.




Are you talking about Israeli or Arab babies, or both?

Quote:

We agree there, except for the no-sky part. My thoughts vis-a-vis the "trap" thing is that Hez will never accede to disarmament. Already today there seems to be a bit of a disconnect from the Hez/Leb side.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/13/mideast.main/index.html?section=cnn_topstories
"The two Hezbollah members of the Lebanese Cabinet said Saturday the militia wanted to keep its weapons south of the Litani River -- a zone the U.N. resolution calls for demilitarizing.

Yet the Cabinet unanimously approved the resolution. Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah indicated that the two Hezbollah ministers voted for it in a spirit of national unity.

The Lebanese Cabinet planned to meet Sunday to discuss implementing the plan, but then postponed the meeting for up to two days.

A Lebanese government minister said the postponement came at the request of parliamentary speaker Nabih Berri, a key negotiator with Hezbollah, to give government officials more time to discuss the plan with Hezbollah."

This is the trap. They cannot abide by the terms and exist, so they will be hunted down and slaughtered. Like the vermin they are.





The IDF has so far identified 180 Hezbollah fighters dead ( http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3290695,00.html ) most of them killed in ground action. They also claim hundreds more have been killed, however no one has substantiated this claim and it currently only remains the word of Israel.

The Israeli offensive has been a failure for a number of reasons:

-The two kidnapped soldiers from the onset of hostilities have not been recovered.

-An unacceptable amount of civilian life loss has created one of the worst PR relations for Israel in the international community

-Hezbollah is still firing katyushas and other rockets into Northern Israel as air raids approach a point uselessness in terms of destroying the foundation of Hezbollah

-Scores of Israeli soldiers are dying almost daily, which was not anticipated

-Nasrallah is still alive

-Hezbollah has more popular support in Lebanon than ever

They've even had a switch of command in response to domestic criticism that saw Moshe Kaplinski take over Israel's Northern command ( http://www1.idf.il/dover/site/mainpage.asp?sl=EN&id=7&docid=46219.EN&unit=12017 )

It's been 33 days, and Lebanon has literally deteriorated into a humanitarian crisis. Enough people are dying in a short enough time spand that mass graves are now being dug in Lebanon. I don't even think the Palestinians have ever had the sky fall down on them that hard. "We need more time" is the diatribe of maliciousness turned failure.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5962414 - 08/14/06 01:22 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I think Israel just wanted to do what it said it was going to do..."Bomb Lebanon back into the stone age". Now Lebanon is no longer a threat to them, at the expense of hundred of civilian lives. But hey, if it gives the Israeli's piece of mind, it was totally worth it.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5962423 - 08/14/06 01:28 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
I think Israel just wanted to do what it said it was going to do..."Bomb Lebanon back into the stone age". Now Lebanon is no longer a threat to them, at the expense of hundred of civilian lives. But hey, if it gives the Israeli's piece of mind, it was totally worth it.




Actually a lot of people said Israel should have done more. Israel has one of the largest and most powerful airforces in the world and lots of people said they should of killed thousands of Lebanese. They basically were restrained because high civilian casualties are no longer tolerated when it comes to western countries.

and here's you saying you want all jews dead http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5959733#Post5959733


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: downforpot]
    #5962511 - 08/14/06 02:00 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I don't mean any disrespect, as I know English is not your first language, it's Russian, right?

"I don't want Jews dead, I want them to stop fucking with the world like it's a game(Zionists). This is exactly what I am talking about, you can't criticize the Jewish state with out "wanting them dead". Fucking ridiculous."

Is the post you directed me to. You will notice the very first 5 words of that post. You probably got the Idea from: "This is exactly what I am talking about, you can't criticize the Jewish state with out "wanting them dead"."

I don't mean that by me criticizing the Jewish state, I want them all dead, because they go hand in hand. What I mean is, that by criticizing the Jewish state, people jump to the conclusion that one would want all Jews dead, because they think the two go hand in hand.

I say "fucking ridiculous" right after I made that statement, I thought it was pretty clear.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5962538 - 08/14/06 02:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Moving a few hundred troops to respond to limited actions is relatively easy. Amassing an Army to invade against fighters is an entirely different thing. Guardian link no workee. I didn't see the point of the other one.

Vehicles are not infrastructure.

Yes yes yes, human rights organizations condemn. Blah blah blah. It's war. Either fight it or fuck off. Half measures never work.

I'm talking about both babies. Don't you think that most of the Lebanese people are sorely pissed that they let these assholes get them blown up. If they don't take hold (incidentally, it looks like their government is pussying out again. That's the trap part I mentioned earlier.) they will get their asses bombed again.
Quote:



Basilides said

The Israeli offensive has been a failure for a number of reasons:

-The two kidnapped soldiers from the onset of hostilities have not been recovered.




I don't think that was ever a realistic possibility. They were dead once it became clear Israel wasn't interested in any "prisoner" exchange.
Quote:



-An unacceptable amount of civilian life loss has created one of the worst PR relations for Israel in the international community




Bullshit, the world hates Israel and has for decades. Hezbollah actually managed to make them seem sympathetic. And fuck the civilians. They allowed these fuckers to co-opt their country and commit criminal acts in their midst. With no risk of prosecution. Hell, the loss of life is ridiculously low compared to what it very easily could have been.
Quote:



-Hezbollah is still firing katyushas and other rockets into Northern Israel as air raids approach a point uselessness in terms of destroying the foundation of Hezbollah




If Hezbollah is still firing rockets at the time of your post then there is no cease fire and that is good for Israel. And the fucking Katyushas are almost a joke. Typical yield 200 rockets 2 casualties.
Quote:



-Scores of Israeli soldiers are dying almost daily, which was not anticipated




Yeah, usually the Marys just hide. This time they're fighting, from behind their moms, but still fighting. And dying, allah take their souls. I think you're inflating the Israeli casualties a bit.
Quote:



-Nasrallah is still alive




He's been hiding in Syria flapping his blowhole. Only an invasion of Syria could stave off defeat? No. But you can keep moving the goalposts if you like
Quote:



-Hezbollah has more popular support in Lebanon than ever




Oh, I don't know about that. In fact, I rather doubt it. Imagine how much support Hez would have if Israel had done nothing. They would be the heroes of the whole Arab world, with ticker tape parades.
Quote:



They've even had a switch of command in response to domestic criticism that saw Moshe Kaplinski take over Israel's Northern command ( http://www1.idf.il/dover/site/mainpage.asp?sl=EN&id=7&docid=46219.EN&unit=12017 )

It's been 33 days, and Lebanon has literally deteriorated into a humanitarian crisis. Enough people are dying in a short enough time spand that mass graves are now being dug in Lebanon. I don't even think the Palestinians have ever had the sky fall down on them that hard. "We need more time" is the diatribe of maliciousness turned failure.




I don't really understand the point you're trying to make here. The Lebanese are going to fuck up and not abide by the cease fire requirement that they disarm Hezbollah and they will get fucked again. And again and again and again until they do something about these monsters in their midst. It really is too bad that the feckless twats at the UN won't actually do it. Oh well, back to the front. No war ever ends until one side is defeated and it won't be Israel.


--------------------


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5962699 - 08/14/06 03:09 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
I don't mean any disrespect, as I know English is not your first language, it's Russian, right?

"I don't want Jews dead, I want them to stop fucking with the world like it's a game(Zionists). This is exactly what I am talking about, you can't criticize the Jewish state with out "wanting them dead". Fucking ridiculous."

Is the post you directed me to. You will notice the very first 5 words of that post. You probably got the Idea from: "This is exactly what I am talking about, you can't criticize the Jewish state with out "wanting them dead"."

I don't mean that by me criticizing the Jewish state, I want them all dead, because they go hand in hand. What I mean is, that by criticizing the Jewish state, people jump to the conclusion that one would want all Jews dead, because they think the two go hand in hand.

I say "fucking ridiculous" right after I made that statement, I thought it was pretty clear.




You and that other nazi kid have advocated dropping nukes and killing all jews, so don't even try saying that you didn't.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


Edited by downforpot (08/14/06 03:10 PM)


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: downforpot]
    #5962859 - 08/14/06 03:58 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I have NEVER advocated the dropping of nukes on Israel. Just because I agree with some of ducks views, does not mean I agree with them all.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5962880 - 08/14/06 04:06 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You are either with him or not.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: downforpot]
    #5962887 - 08/14/06 04:08 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

That is precisely the attitude I despise. He is right on some issues, and wrong on others. It's not about being with or against him.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5963132 - 08/14/06 05:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Moving a few hundred troops to respond to limited actions is relatively easy. Amassing an Army to invade against fighters is an entirely different thing. Guardian link no workee. I didn't see the point of the other one.




So, why was the entire Israeli Air Force ready to strike while the Israeli Army, even when battle ready, waited until July 23 to make their first incursion over the border? Again, the IDF has deployed troops alot quicker than this in the past.

Quote:

Vehicles are not infrastructure.




No, they're just civilian targets.

Quote:

I'm talking about both babies. Don't you think that most of the Lebanese people are sorely pissed that they let these assholes get them blown up. If they don't take hold (incidentally, it looks like their government is pussying out again. That's the trap part I mentioned earlier.) they will get their asses bombed again.




The Lebanese babies die so that Israel can keep their military death toll at a tolerable level.

Quote:

I don't think that was ever a realistic possibility. They were dead once it became clear Israel wasn't interested in any "prisoner" exchange




There's no evidence they're alive or dead.

Quote:

Bullshit, the world hates Israel and has for decades. Hezbollah actually managed to make them seem sympathetic. And fuck the civilians. They allowed these fuckers to co-opt their country and commit criminal acts in their midst. With no risk of prosecution. Hell, the loss of life is ridiculously low compared to what it very easily could have been.




"Fuck the civilians"? That's a non-argument. Civilian lives are the upmost important of any conflict. The Lebanese civilians are not responsible for existence of Hezbollah and its disarming. Why is Lebanese blood so cheap compared to Israelis? I honestly don't understand this point of view that will sometimes come from wingnuts. The only way to explain it is either xenophobia or simple hatred. Take your pick.

Quote:

If Hezbollah is still firing rockets at the time of your post then there is no cease fire and that is good for Israel. And the fucking Katyushas are almost a joke. Typical yield 200 rockets 2 casualties.




Then why all the hysteria then? Why do hundreds of Lebanese people have to die if the threat is so minimal? Israel has called it an "Umbrella of Terror", so they seem to disagree with you. :shurg:

Quote:

He's been hiding in Syria flapping his blowhole. Only an invasion of Syria could stave off defeat? No. But you can keep moving the goalposts if you like




Got a source?

Quote:

Oh, I don't know about that. In fact, I rather doubt it. Imagine how much support Hez would have if Israel had done nothing. They would be the heroes of the whole Arab world, with ticker tape parades.




Initially no one, including the Lebanon and the Arab League, were happy with Hezbollah's brazen (allegedly) cross-border attack on the IDF. A few hundred dead Lebanese later, even little kids were flying the Yellow and Green in demonstrations. Seriously - whatever stupidity Hezbollah did back in July has long been forgotten by the Lebanese. Tis a shame, really. But you have to wonder why.

Quote:

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make here. The Lebanese are going to fuck up and not abide by the cease fire requirement that they disarm Hezbollah and they will get fucked again. And again and again and again until they do something about these monsters in their midst. It really is too bad that the feckless twats at the UN won't actually do it. Oh well, back to the front. No war ever ends until one side is defeated and it won't be Israel.




Then lets see it, because I personally believe this entire war isn't going to produce shit except a fresh supply of horny splodydopes. Remember, Hezbollah is backed by Syria and Iran. They can just as well revive the remants of the group or fund a new one. But then what? Should Israel bombard Syria and Iran in the defense against the 2/200 ratio of Hezbolloid katyashus?

Keep fwapping.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5963283 - 08/14/06 06:16 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

1. Air force is easy. They are always ready.
2. No, they are not just civilian targets. What do you think hezbolloids get around in?
3. Huh?
4. ""Fuck the civilians"? That's a non-argument. Civilian lives are the upmost important of any conflict. The Lebanese civilians are not responsible for existence of Hezbollah and its disarming."
If civilian lives are utmost why does hezbollah insist on siting all their attacks from civilian areas and exclusively aiming their attacks at civilian areas. And I disagree about the Lebanese civilians innocence in all of this. They allowed a nest of vipers in their midst and it looks like they aren't going to disarm them even now. Not good.
5. It has to do with the intent and the willingness to act on it, not necessarily the efficacy of it.
6. Source for what? Him being in Syria? OK fine, I have no idea where the asshole is. Neither does anyone else. Although I'd bet real American dollars on it
7. Because in the end, when some of them misbehave and get their asses kicked by Israel they all rally round the Muslim flag, no matter how bad their brothers are. Stupid fuckers with an utterly assinine sense of "collective honor" whatever that is.
8. Oh, I think Iran and Syria have something coming their way, but it's going to take a little more mistake than this. And I'm sure they'll oblige soon enough. Just not yet.

If the Lebanese fuck this cease fire up and don't disarm Hezbollah then they deserve everything they get. The Lebanese either run the country or hezbollah does. Time for some bitches to assert themselves


--------------------


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5963314 - 08/14/06 06:30 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
That is precisely the attitude I despise. He is right on some issues, and wrong on others. It's not about being with or against him.




That kid is not right on any issue. He is a closet nazi who probably attends White Power rallies and prolly has an account on stormfront.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5963390 - 08/14/06 07:01 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

1. Air force is easy. They are always ready.




The mobilization of reserves for this conflict didn't happen until the 28th ( http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MAR20060728&articleId=2849 ), 5 days after the IDF made their first ground entry over the Israeli-Lebanon border.

Quote:

2. No, they are not just civilian targets. What do you think hezbolloids get around in




The IDF indiscrimately made targets of vehicles, whether or not they were substantiated Hezbollah assets.

Quote:

If civilian lives are utmost why does hezbollah insist on siting all their attacks from civilian areas and exclusively aiming their attacks at civilian areas. And I disagree about the Lebanese civilians innocence in all of this. They allowed a nest of vipers in their midst and it looks like they aren't going to disarm them even now. Not good.




You've confused the Lebanese people with the Lebanese government. The Lebanese civilians don't have the ability to influence such matters. And this was after all, a war against Hezbollah not the Lebanese government.

Quote:

5. It has to do with the intent and the willingness to act on it, not necessarily the efficacy of it.




By this logic, Israel was making it out far worse than it really is in the terms of public relations.

Quote:

6. Source for what? Him being in Syria? OK fine, I have no idea where the asshole is. Neither does anyone else. Although I'd bet real American dollars on it




If he was in Syria, Israel would know.

Quote:

7. Because in the end, when some of them misbehave and get their asses kicked by Israel they all rally round the Muslim flag, no matter how bad their brothers are. Stupid fuckers with an utterly assinine sense of "collective honor" whatever that is.




You're missing the point. What you illustrated yourself poses a security risk.

Quote:

8. Oh, I think Iran and Syria have something coming their way.




Which would endanger the security of Israelis even more. Syria and Iran are a far stretch up the ladder compared to Hezbollah and their katyushas. If Israel honestly wishes to embark on such icarianism in response to proxyism, classic politics may actually force the notion of national security into a debate about what is practical; in this case, how to protect Israeli civilians from hostilities.

Quote:

but it's going to take a little more mistake than this. And I'm sure they'll oblige soon enough. Just not yet.




It's obvious by now that the governments of Syria and Iran only talk the talk. That is why they support Hezbollah.

Good day


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5963459 - 08/14/06 07:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

You've confused the Lebanese people with the Lebanese government. The Lebanese civilians don't have the ability to influence such matters. And this was after all, a war against Hezbollah not the Lebanese government.




No. This is the problem. The people are responsible for their government and will be visited with the shit that their government engenders. It is utterly ridiculous to make the separation. And, I would submit to you that the "civilian" casualties have been astonishingly low. Astonishingly
Quote:



It's obvious by now that the governments of Syria and Iran only talk the talk. That is why they support Hezbollah.




Syria are a bag of cunts. Iran is another matter entirely.


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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5963495 - 08/14/06 07:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

No. This is the problem. The people are responsible for their government and will be visited with the shit that their government engenders. It is utterly ridiculous to make the separation. And, I would submit to you that the "civilian" casualties have been astonishingly low. Astonishingly




This is the same cognitive distortion of anyone who places military judgement on a civilian population, Al Qaeda included.

Quote:

Syria are a bag of cunts. Iran is another matter entirely.




In geopolitics, what is a "bag of cunts"?

And thanks cutting the length of your rebuttals  :shocked:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5963537 - 08/14/06 07:40 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Fucking hell, I'm not going to go endlessly back and forth with you. They even made it impossible to do so what with the quotes limit thing. We disagree on culpability. I think you are complicit if you make no effort to rout out the criminals in your midst. You disagree. Oh well. We aren't ever going to agree on this. It's a philosophy thing.

Bag of Cunts=France. I.e. Big mouth pussy puppets. Is that clearer?


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5964215 - 08/14/06 11:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for another round, Zappa. It was fun  :laugh:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisiblequiver
freedrug
Male

Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 8,047
Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: Basilides]
    #5964316 - 08/14/06 11:46 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

you make me hate bob dylan,oh well the cunt couldnt sing anyway :smirk:


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: 20 Arrested in London [Re: quiver]
    #5964327 - 08/14/06 11:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Right


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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