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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: christopera]
    #25935896 -

Thanks for the clarification.  I was (and still am) confused by what you meant when you said "Perhaps Enlil said it best, 'neither evil is excusable'" and "I also believe Assange approached this the wrong way."

What evil is inexcusable?  Even if you personally disagree with Assange's methods, he's not in trouble for his methods, as the Supreme Court ruled he can share classified information that is provided by others.

He's currently in trouble for offering to help Manning (unsuccessfully) crack a password.  Is that the evil you were referring to?  :shrug:



Edit:  Please note that I'm NOT attacking your position.  You're a great poster, and I'm merely trying to understand your position.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (04/15/19 11:33 AM)

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #25936067 -

I dont really understand enlils position, im not sure why hes considered such a peice of shit for trying to expose the crimes of governments. Of course what he did was illegal, but who cares. Someone has to be willing to break the law to expose the wrongdoings of governments. How could anyone be upset that corrupt government got exposed? They should be exposed. I might not agree with his methods, but i believe that the ends justified the means and Assange's impact was positive.  Its pretty noble to be willing to martyr yourself in order to expose the wrongdoings of others.(especially the case of governments) Im sure his and Snowden's only regrets were that the public wasn't as outraged as they should have been. Sometimes rules have to broken to expose the truth. If no one is willing to ever break a law to expose such truth,  the government will always win and we will always be ignorant masses.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25936102 -

He's a piece of shit for the totality of his actions.  He's being extradited for an alleged crime.  The two aren't really related except that one of the facts that makes him a piece of shit is that he has refused to face up to the accusations made against him in two different countries, one of which was for a sex crime.

At least you admitted that you believe that the ends justify the means.  We'll never agree on this, however.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25936129 -

MagicMush123 said:
I dont really understand enlils position, im not sure why hes considered such a peice of shit for trying to expose the crimes of governments. Of course what he did was illegal, but who cares.


What he did was NOT illegal though, and THAT'S the point I'm trying to stress here.  The only stated reason the US has given to extradite Assange is because he is accused of unsuccessfully trying to help Manning crack a password.

MagicMush123 said:
Someone has to be willing to break the law to expose the wrongdoings of governments. How could anyone be upset that corrupt government got exposed? They should be exposed.  Its pretty noble to be willing to martyr yourself in order to expose the wrongdoings of others.(especially the case of governments) Im sure his and Snowden's only regrets were that the public wasn't as outraged as they should have been.


I agree with you 100%.  :thumbup:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil]
    #25936131 -

Enlil said:
He's a piece of shit for the totality of his actions.  He's being extradited for an alleged crime.  The two aren't really related except that one of the facts that makes him a piece of shit is that he has refused to face up to the accusations made against him in two different countries, one of which was for a sex crime.

At least you admitted that you believe that the ends justify the means.  We'll never agree on this, however.



I may be wrong,  but i was under the impression that the  rape allegations were false in order to extradite him out of the uk to Sweden to face bullshit charges which would ultimately be dropped and therefore he could be sent to face justice in the usa.  In my opinion, if the rape was true then that was the most reprehensible thing hes done and i would hope that he would he face justice for that.

And even if he wasn't facing justice to the us, thats understandable right? Im not saying that he'll be tortured in the us, but they'll make stay as long and as uncomfortable as possible. That would scare anyone into hiding out in an embassy

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25936132 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What he did was NOT illegal though, and THAT'S the point I'm trying to stress here.  The only stated reason the US has given to extradite Assange is because he is accused of unsuccessfully trying to help Manning crack a password.


And how is that not illegal again?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil]
    #25936135 -

Enlil said:
At least you admitted that you believe that the ends justify the means.  We'll never agree on this, however.


And you didn't admit that the means were perfectly legal.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25936136 -

MagicMush123 said:
Enlil said:
He's a piece of shit for the totality of his actions.  He's being extradited for an alleged crime.  The two aren't really related except that one of the facts that makes him a piece of shit is that he has refused to face up to the accusations made against him in two different countries, one of which was for a sex crime.

At least you admitted that you believe that the ends justify the means.  We'll never agree on this, however.



I may be wrong,  but i was under the impression that the  rape allegations were false in order to extradite him out of the uk to Sweden to face bullshit charges which would ultimately be dropped and therefore he could be sent to face justice in the usa.  In my opinion, if the rape was true then that was the most reprehensible thing hes done and i would hope that he would he face justice for that.



We will probably never know if it's true because Sweden has a completely fucked up system.  They won't file charges until they've had a chance to interview him about it, so if he doesn't return to Sweden by 2020, he won't be charged.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25936137 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Enlil said:
At least you admitted that you believe that the ends justify the means.  We'll never agree on this, however.


And you didn't admit that the means were perfectly legal.


Attempting to hack into a computer is legal?  Source?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25936138 -

Quote:
What he did was NOT illegal though, and THAT'S the point I'm trying to stress here.  The only stated reason the US has given to extradite Assange is because he is accused of unsuccessfully trying to help Manning crack a password.


That’s illegal. When he’s helping his source steal documents, he’s gone from being a simple distributor of information to an active participant in a hacking conspiracy.

Assange is garbage.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #25936140 -

Enlil said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What he did was NOT illegal though, and THAT'S the point I'm trying to stress here.  The only stated reason the US has given to extradite Assange is because he is accused of unsuccessfully trying to help Manning crack a password.


And how is that not illegal again?


Unsuccessfully helping Manning crack a password may have been illegal.  But releasing dirt on the DNC was NOT illegal.  THAT'S the point I'm making here.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: MagicMush123] * 3
    #25936146 -

I agree with this.

One of the first amendments great values is that it can be used to expose crimes and abuses committed by the state.


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"Rape ... Is a... can of apples" -Fiery

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25936390 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Enlil said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What he did was NOT illegal though, and THAT'S the point I'm trying to stress here.  The only stated reason the US has given to extradite Assange is because he is accused of unsuccessfully trying to help Manning crack a password.


And how is that not illegal again?


Unsuccessfully helping Manning crack a password may have been illegal.  But releasing dirt on the DNC was NOT illegal.  THAT'S the point I'm making here.


So, you agree that his means were illegal.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil]
    #25936522 -

Enlil said:
So, you agree that his means were illegal.


No, he's not in trouble for the means he used to get ANY of the information that he released.

He's in trouble for allegedly trying (and failing) to help Manning crack a password.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25936528 -

Lol, so what?  How does that help your position?  I have nothing against him releasing information as long as it's legal.  I have a problem with him committing crimes...FOR ANY REASON.  That's why he's being extradited.  That's why I'm in favor of him being extradited.

His means were illegal, even if his desired end was not.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #25936541 -

That's not worthy of extradition and I think you know it (how many of the over 1000 people per day who attack Government websites do we attempt to extradite who are foreigners)?

People are pissed that he exposed establishment corruption, and that's what he's really in trouble for.  But there are no laws against that, so they're charging him with whatever bullshit they can find instead.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (04/15/19 04:40 PM)

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25936659 -

Even if that's not the whole story, I'm sure it's true.


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"Rape ... Is a... can of apples" -Fiery

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25936664 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's not worthy of extradition and I think you know it (how many of the over 1000 people per day who attack Government websites do we attempt to extradite who are foreigners)?



I don't see why that matters.  He hid in an embassy for 7 years to avoid prosecution for that and sex crimes. Why would you defend that?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil]
    #25936700 -

He has a fondness for persons of ill repute around the world


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: koods] * 7
    #25936994 -

This is all retribution for publishing the Manning cables.

I haven’t seen it mentioned that Ecuador received billions from the IMF the same day as they revoked Assange’s asylum. Hilary called for drone striking him before 2016.

Think they’re going after him for allegedly attempting to crack a password? Grow up, folks.


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