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Julian Assange Arrested in London * 1
    #25932187 -

There's been some discussion on Julian Assange's arrest, but no one started a thread yet.

I think this will evolve into a fascinating story, so I'm creating this thread to follow the story as it progresses.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #25932199 -

Here's some of the discussion from the other thread to kick things off:

koods said:
Assange was finally arrested :woot:


lowbrow said:
Why are you celebrating that?


Enlil said:
Because he's a criminal?


Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
"Woot" because the guy who exposes corruption in Government was arrested?


vault123 said:
I am conflicted on this as well. Without Assange we would have never found out about the “insurance policy” which was the Russia hoax the democrats cooked up in case Trump was elected.

Which I think is good exposing corruption is great and that was the only chance for that deep seated corruption to get out. If Hillary has won it would have never seen the light of day. So I like that he did that,

BUT

This is a big butt here. He just dumped top secret American government documents without even attempting to conceal sources or methods. That is how you get people killed. Those are the kinds of reasons people get assassinated over.

The amount of harm and damage that have been caused by his reckless dumping of top secret American documents is on a global scale. Exposing corruption is good, I like that, but getting people killed over reckless document dumps isn’t really something I would celebrate.


Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
First, They Came for WikiLeaks. Then…
The Nation
December 9, 2010
Quote:
By and large WikiLeaks has come to embrace the ethics that guide traditional news organizations’ disclosure of secrets, and it should be afforded the same protections. WikiLeaks’ critics assert—without evidence—that its leaks have endangered lives, but a senior NATO official told CNN in October that "there has not been a single case of Afghans needing protection or to be moved because of the [Afghanistan] leak." Critics characterize WikiLeaks’ actions as indiscriminate document dumps, but at press time WikiLeaks had released only 1,095 cables, almost all vetted and redacted by its partner news organizations. WikiLeaks even asked the State Department to help redact the cables before they were released. It refused.



koods said:
Assange is a total sell out. Fuck him.


Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Who bought him?  You're just upset because he exposed DNC corruption and couldn't prove your make believe accusations on Trump.



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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (04/13/19 10:16 AM)

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25932216 -

Hillary Clinton unloads on Assange, calls him 'only foreigner that this administration would welcome to the US'

"he has to answer for what he's done" said Clinton.


What he's done is let the world know Hillary and the DNC are corrupt.  No wonder she's pissed!  :lol:


While Much of US Media Plays Along, Critics Warn Assange Indictment an 'Obvious' Ploy With Deeper Dangers
Quote:
Press freedom advocates, Assange's attorneys, WikiLeaks staff, and other critics warned that... Assange's extradition to the U.S. would set a dangerous precedent for journalists everywhere.

"This precedent means that any journalist can be extradited for prosecution in the United States for having published truthful information about the U.S."



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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25932266 -

Hillary is old news.  Assange has been a piece of shit for a long, long time.  The fact that he may have let Americans know about corruption doesn't excuse his allegedly unlawful behavior.  The ends never justify the means.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil]
    #25932284 -

Enlil said:
Assange has been a piece of shit for a long, long time.


Remind us why you feel that way?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25932293 -

His first criminal conviction was 22 years ago.  That, alone, wouldn't make someone a piece of shit, but he's had 22 years to learn to be a better person.  Instead, he's become a worse person.  He's taken his skills and used them to aid other criminals.

Then, when he's accused of rape, he runs.  When he's accused of crimes associated with Bradley manning, he hides away in an embassy.  If he were really the noble man you think he is, he'd face these charges and show the world what a true hero does when faced with adversity.  Instead, he hid for 7 years, while disrespecting the people who took him in and gave him asylum.

Human garbage.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil]
    #25932364 -

Enlil said:
His first criminal conviction was 22 years ago.  That, alone, wouldn't make someone a piece of shit, but he's had 22 years to learn to be a better person.  Instead, he's become a worse person.


Can you tell us what he was convicted of 22 years ago?  Google's not being very helpful today.

Enlil said:
he hid for 7 years, while disrespecting the people who took him in and gave him asylum.


How did he disrespect them?  Google's not being cooperative again.

Enlil said:
When he's accused of rape, he runs.  When he's accused of crimes associated with Bradley manning, he hides away in an embassy.  If he were really the noble man you think he is, he'd face these charges and show the world what a true hero does when faced with adversity.


I'm sure you realize the US doesn't care at all about the rape charges.  We're after him for letting the world know we have a corrupt Government, and that kind of behavior can't be tolerated.

As some of you know, I'm kind of a fan of Tucker Carlson.  Though we disagree on most of our politics, we agreed on Russia, where we've proven to be correct, and we now agree on Julian Assange.



This is a great video for anyone that has 6 minutes.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25932374 -

I care. 

He was convicted of hacking.

And here's a story about his disrespect

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/11/how-ecuador-lost-patience-with-houseguest-julian-assange


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #25932410 -

Enlil said:
And here's a story about his disrespect

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/11/how-ecuador-lost-patience-with-houseguest-julian-assange


According to your story, he disrespected them by interfering with (exposing the corruption of) other states?

Or did you mean he disrespected them by uncovering a surveillance operation against him, which caused Ecuador’s patience to “reach its limit”?

No wonder you didn't explain.  :smirk:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25932414 -

When you live under someone's roof,  you follow their rules.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #25932827 -

Julian Assange is exposing corruption and you're attacking him.  That seems weird to me.

If he was hacking into banks and stealing money, then of course I'd join you in attacking him.

But he's exposing wrongdoing.  In the Government mostly.  I just don't see anything wrong with that.

The opposite in fact.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25932838 -

I'm all for exposing corruption. I just don't believe the ends justify the means.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #25932849 -

I have to agree with Enlil. Assange broke the law, whether anyone likes it or not. Those laws were designed to protect people. It doesn't matter whether or not one likes the laws or those people.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25932981 -

Let's review what happened.

Bradley Manning, an intelligence analyst who had access to classified information, saw some horrific videos as part of his job.



He knew that what he saw was not only immoral, but illegal, so he turned the videos over to WikiLeaks.

Assange encouraged Manning to provide even more informaton, something journalists do all the time, and agreed (unsuccessfully?) to assist Manning with cracking a password.  This fact was already well known by the Obama administration, who refused to charge Assange with that, saying that would endanger journalism, and Assange's first amendment rights (Julian Assange isn't the one who leaked the classified information).

So is Julian Assange's means more evil than the ends it exposed?  Was it even illegal for Assange to publish information that he was given?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25932988 -

It's not a question of the greater evil. Neither evil is excusable.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25933734 -

I view the arrest as an attack on press freedom. The government is just mad because they got caught being corrupt.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: MyconautVA] * 1
    #25933836 -

I think the reason that this isn't getting much attention, or perhaps the attention it should, is that it was inevitable.

My personal thoughts are this. While I appreciate the nobility of releasing information freely (and gravely endangering self to do so), and I appreciate that there is without a doubt a need for this type of rebellion (if you want to call it that), I also believe Assange approached this the wrong way. Additionally, I appreciate the need for States to protect their information. As a result, the situation sort of is what it is. Perhaps Enlil said it best, "neither evil is excusable."

If I had my druthers Assange would have set up a depository for information, that information would have been submitted, it would have been distributed to multiple (20 plus) depositories autonomously, then those destinations would have independent control over what happened with the information. This hopefully would remove the onus of responsibility from a single person and mean that there were strong checks on the release of information. That doesn't mean Assange wouldn't be in a similar position, rather it would remove the veil of potential fuckery on his part.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: christopera]
    #25933967 -

christopera said:
I appreciate the need for States to protect their information. Perhaps Enlil said it best, "neither evil is excusable."


Do you really believe wrong-doing by the State needs to be protected?  And that it's not "excusable" to expose it?

christopera said:
If I had my druthers Assange would have set up a depository for information, that information would have been submitted, it would have been distributed to multiple (20 plus) depositories autonomously, then those destinations would have independent control over what happened with the information. This hopefully would remove the onus of responsibility from a single person and mean that there were strong checks on the release of information. That doesn't mean Assange wouldn't be in a similar position, rather it would remove the veil of potential fuckery on his part.


Are you seriously arguing that news sources don't have a right to print classified information given to them?  Maybe you should look at New York Times Co. v. United States?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (04/14/19 11:22 AM)

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25934092 -

koods never fails to disappoint


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Julian Assange Arrested in London [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #25934157 -

whatever you think about assange, this is a fucked up story. He did a huge service for society and claiming blah blah he broke the law is a reason to shit on him is pretty pathetic. Maybe Enlil and others think Snowden is also garbage for breaking the law?

I haven't seen anything to suggest the rape stuff is legitimate. I'm not an expert on the case but I understood that the woman in question didn't really want to push this for prosecution at all. If there is something there, then fine he should face the law but that doesn't mean anything for whistleblowing and asylum practices.

For Ecuador to shit on international asylum law and just give him up is disgraceful and should terrify people. It should terrify journalists that this is happening but much of the mainstream media are so up the asses of the establishment that they are complicit and effectively extensions of the state apparatus.. How many media outlets used his material and will now conveniently remain silent..and even bash him.. all the remain chummy with the establishment to maintain their access to power. We should be supporting the journalists that the powerful hate because they tend to be the ones actually revealing that which they want to hide. Mainstream journalists these days are mega bootlickers and opportunists.

If there is evidence that his actions actually threatened people's lives then I'm open to seeing it.

John Pilger interview:


Ecuador Arrests Digital Privacy Activist and Programmer for 'Collaborating' with WikiLeaks

IMF agrees to $4.2bn fund for Ecuador

:hmm: how curious. Not like the US uses international financial organisations like the IMF and World Bank to control other nations........

Does anything think an inconvenient set up at an embassy or assange being "disrespectful" is justification for stripping him of protection? smh

The UK govt is America's bitch. Assange revealed war crimes committed by the US but the US openly rejects that ANY US citizens will face the ICC.. despite using the ICC to prosecute others. One rule for America and another for everyone else it seems, curious. Cant imagine why most of the world thinks the US is the greatest threat to world peace............


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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