Icelander said:

If you say so but I think it's just your opinion.  I've taken a handful of heroic doses of shrooms and often alone at night on strange mountain sides on the border between Calif/Oregon That wasn't my experience.

I'll bet it's really different for different people. But it must be nice to be so sure of everything. I think that's a christian thing because I remember the people in church being sure of everything too.

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Icelander said:

Heroic doses is a term coined by Terence McKenna to signify doses over 5 grams dried and I used it to signify that a large dose was used in the same way he did. No ego involved

We're back to your subjective opinion of your experience which is just that. You can call your subjective experiences anything  you want but that doesn't mean much.

Maybe you got the ego thing going thinking you've experienced Christ consciousness.

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I'm aware of the term and where it derived.  The point is, there's no need to use it unless you are transfixed with the self and the quantity you are ingesting, rather than what you want to gain from the experience.

What I describe as Christ is exactly what it is, experienced and described by those who have experienced and noted by countless theologians and philosophers to name but a few.  Likewise 'Buddahood', is widely used and understood uniformly to mean the same thing.

I've experienced Christ as a non-Christain and live with it.  It's life-changing.  Hopefully, you'll relinquish your ego and you'll someday witness the same.

Icelander said:

You need to get over yourself.  You're just full of your own righteousness and can't except the idea that someone else's experience could be completely different and not for reasons of ego or what you think reality is.

I hope you come down off your throne someday.

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MarkostheGnostic said:

I never thought that I would step up in defense of Icelander, but here I am saying to you that it is YOU who are laying YOUR trip on him! Christ Consciousness or R.M. Buckets "Cosmic Consciousness" are modern renderings of the biblical "being in Christ." What I am witnessing about you as apt is the saying in Luke 6:42, "How can you say, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' while you yourself fail to see the beam in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

You are not unique in having had a mystical or visionary experience in a Christian idiom without having been raised in a Christian milieu. It happened to me and a LOT of people historically. The Christian myths are all contained in  the collective unconscious of Humankind of which the Christian idiom is but one iteration of many cultural and historical manifestations. The demigod who is born of a virgin, suffers a torture-death (often some form of dismemberment as with Dionysus, Osiris, Ixion, Prometheus, etc.), who dies, resurrects, and ascends is an archetypal, universal theme. Whether the Iesous narratives are historical is a matter of faith not evidence.

You sound literalist and if so, your understanding is necessarily superficial! You are still needing to be fed with "milk, not with meat, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready" (1 Corinthians 3:2). That said, it is obvious that you are not ready to understand the Christian stories as salvific myths because you are laying a trip! Be like the Sun, not the Wind. When the Sun and North Wind competed on which one was going to get a man to remove his coat, the more the Wind tried to blow the man's coat off, the more tightly did the man clutch his coat to himself. When the Sun had his turn, he just glowed, radiated warmth naturally. Pretty soon the man warmed up so much, he removed his coat by himself. You still don't grok this but apparently...

"...you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity..." - Hebrews 6:1

The bottom line: you are just not as mature about your faith as you think you are if you're still laying Christ-trips on other people, including Icelander. "Heroic doses?" indeed. If you want to understand what the term hero or heroic really means, you'd have to read and grok Joseph Campbell's book The Hero With 1000 Faces, because you deflected away from an experience that Icelander was trying to communicate to you by your shallow dismissal of the word "heroic." The hero's journey, historically, culturally, psychologically, spiritually, takes one to the Underworld as well as to the Empyrean (to use classical terms), or to use Humphrey Osmond's modern version:

"To fathom Hell, or soar angelic, just take a pinch of psychedelic."

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Quote:

You've got some learnin' to do son. Leave your egoic-mind by the door to higher education, self-taught or academic.

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Again, 'heroic' doses are not at all related to Christ, regardless of the source and it wasn't stated that I assumed uniqueness as a non-Christian.  Coincidentally, the point stated an stressed was that anyone can obtain Christ when they relinquish the things which seemingly block passage to it.  In no instance too, was Christ literally defined and it was clearly stated that Christ is but one iteration.  There is no call to take dosage or terminology of dosage into regard or to read that particular book.  You've merely tried to emphasize that you've read another book and thus, we consequently slide further from the essence of what the subject matter is actually about.

Christ is conveyed by example of act, yet there is nothing at all untoward about stressing the fact particularly within a restrive medium, that it does indeed exist, however subjective it may be, to encourage a person not to close down within themselves, but to open up to potentialities - the process known as 'faith', rather than disregarding outright.  When Christ is found, it is absolutely known and it serves a game changer.  Needless to say, such wisdom of knowing how to open the heart, rather than a cherished book, is sure to garner more fulfilling conclusions.

My efforts, though remote from perfect, are perhaps more effective than labelling the next person 'son', whilst we ironically try to communicate the Sonship, insisting too that a person needs to be of 'higher-education' in order to comprehend and harbour it.  In that single fell swoop you've managed to epitomize what Christ is not about, whilst bolstering your own ego.

As a supposed 'Elder', it's best to lend an ear, or indeed, an eye, to analyse the land, and indeed onself, before deciding to become a tiger, lest you'll succumb to chewing your own tail.

Icelander said:

If you say so but I think it's just your opinion.  I've taken a handful of heroic doses of shrooms and often alone at night on strange mountain sides on the border between Calif/Oregon That wasn't my experience.

I'll bet it's really different for different people. But it must be nice to be so sure of everything. I think that's a christian thing because I remember the people in church being sure of everything too.

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Peyote Road said:

Icelander said:

If you say so but I think it's just your opinion.  I've taken a handful of heroic doses of shrooms and often alone at night on strange mountain sides on the border between Calif/Oregon That wasn't my experience.

I'll bet it's really different for different people. But it must be nice to be so sure of everything. I think that's a christian thing because I remember the people in church being sure of everything too.

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What were your experiences like?

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Bravo.  You've asked a question which should have admittedly been asked earlier due to an absence of the actual experience being stated, yet instead, there was misdirection and prominence placed on dosage and location.....

Peyote Road said:

Icelander said:

If you say so but I think it's just your opinion.  I've taken a handful of heroic doses of shrooms and often alone at night on strange mountain sides on the border between Calif/Oregon That wasn't my experience.

I'll bet it's really different for different people. But it must be nice to be so sure of everything. I think that's a christian thing because I remember the people in church being sure of everything too.

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What were your experiences like?

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Icelander said:

Peyote Road said:

Icelander said:

If you say so but I think it's just your opinion.  I've taken a handful of heroic doses of shrooms and often alone at night on strange mountain sides on the border between Calif/Oregon That wasn't my experience.

I'll bet it's really different for different people. But it must be nice to be so sure of everything. I think that's a christian thing because I remember the people in church being sure of everything too.

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What were your experiences like?

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Really short version. Felt like I completely dropped into my subconscious our unconscious mind. The totality of it was whatever was happening in my mind. There was awareness there was knowledge but it was all limited and my own. there was no way to tell what reality actually was because it was beyond comprehension  I got the message that everything we tell ourselves is a limited story and suspect due to our emotional makeup. That's what I have taken away from a lifetime and hundreds of trips of differing varieties. From Salvia to MDMA. If anything I would say Tao comes closest to expressing it. That the Tao is unknowable. End of story for me.

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