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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: Connoisseur]
    #24333032 -

Connoisseur said:
you have read my words completely wrong on multiple points

i didnt direct the term "you guys" personally at you first of all

second of all no ones talking shamanism in the pub ever and you know it, on this whole site entirely its rarely mentioned yet this site wouldnt have been created if it wasnt for generations of shamans before us

ive seen people here call shamanism quackery as a concept and discourage discussion of it, when in reality thats just certain people who are pretending to be shamans who are quacks

third of all I NEVER NOT ONCE said that anything was better, worse, or anything other than DIFFERENT when it comes to the demographic between plants and synthetic/semi-synthetic chemicals

what makes you guys think im sayin that is beyond me, but it sounds like peoples egos often get in the way of understanding that plants are living thinking creatures



I think h understands that youre not saying its better just different, I guess he is just asking why the differences you list matter, or maybe what they mean - so I guess if there are different the question is what are the specific positives/negatives of both things and of the arguments said for them - in the end everything comes out neutral, just like different zoom levels, different perspectives and colors are basically just different represantations of the same thing with equal rights but all show something and leave something - so each has benefits and drawbacks, which in the end come out to neutral - what these are though, might be an interesting question to discuss


--------------------
"to affirm life is to also affirm death"
-Albert hofmann

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: Connoisseur] * 1
    #24333041 -

Connoisseur said:
i have a theory about the evolution of mushrooms and plants that i want to mention but im not sure if it deserves to be in this thread or its own thread because its its own concept entirely.

regardless im sure you guys will find it very interesting and im sure many of you will agree that my theory is correct because its all by scientifically confirmed.

should i post it in here?


why not both, give us a small digest here because it fits and then also give it the honors of its own thread, surely some poeple will only see it here and some only there so it will have more attenion that way and be honored and discussed more deeply and fully that way :smile:


--------------------
"to affirm life is to also affirm death"
-Albert hofmann

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: Connoisseur]
    #24333048 -

Connoisseur said:
plants are older than humans
plants are born
plants die
plants communicate
plants grow
plants evolve
plants change
plants effect their environment
plants help us to exist and survive

need i go on?



You could explain why those things matter as far as psychedelics are concerned.

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: Connoisseur] * 1
    #24333055 -

Connoisseur said:
you have read my words completely wrong on multiple points

i didnt direct the term "you guys" personally at you first of all

second of all no ones talking shamanism in the pub ever and you know it, on this whole site entirely its rarely mentioned yet this site wouldnt have been created if it wasnt for generations of shamans before us

ive seen people here call shamanism quackery as a concept and discourage discussion of it, when in reality thats just certain people who are pretending to be shamans who are quacks

third of all I NEVER NOT ONCE said that anything was better, worse, or anything other than DIFFERENT when it comes to the demographic between plants and synthetic/semi-synthetic chemicals

what makes you guys think im sayin that is beyond me, but it sounds like peoples egos often get in the way of understanding that plants are living thinking creatures


I haven't put words in your mouth once, I've asked for clarification on what you sought to argue when opening the thread.

I didn't say you said anything was better, worse or different, I had said you mentioned the others were perfect and asked why. I have no issues playing the devil's advocate right now, even if it's merely to ask why you believe things that you are charging at people for not agreeing, when you yourself haven't been completely clear.

Also, I know the term you guys wasn't personally directed, but it was vaguely directed at those not immediately agreeing, and only take issue because it assumes that people don't understand what you're getting at because they don't understand shaman culture, when the reality is that people aren't understanding what you're getting at because you're being vague.

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: polaritymind]
    #24333065 -

what the actual difference is in the experience once the plant/chemical is inside you is one thing

what the difference is between the physical reality of a plants life cycle in relation to our existence compared to the creation of a synthetic/semi-synthetic compound is another entirely

to actually discuss what the difference between an LSD and psilocybin trip for me is would be ignorant and silly under this circumstance and the reason why is because no words can properly touch such concepts, the psychedelic experience itself is beyond words and beyond science whether its LSD, psilocybin, DMT, mescaline or anything else

anyone ever realized that the ancient alchemists, as well as more modern alchemists were largely interested in the creation of things which are unnatural by a mixture of natural and sometimes unnatural ingredients

concepts such as the Homunculus and the philosophers stone come to mind

so let me ask you, if we are creating LSD from partially from natural chemicals and partially from unnatural chemicals are we not creating a type of philosophers stone?


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25598736

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: polaritymind] * 1
    #24333079 -

mushrooms have given me much more insight into my self as compared to any other psychs.


no matter what every organism on this planet has coevolved. with the organisms it conta ts on a regular basis......weeeeeeeeeee


--------------------
CA weed @ all times unless specified
currently this high
pebbles suck
its turtles all the way down

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: Connoisseur] * 1
    #24333086 -

Connoisseur said:
so let me ask you, if we are creating LSD from partially from natural chemicals and partially from unnatural chemicals are we not creating a type of philosophers stone?


Could anything be said differently of a snickers bar? Whether something is a philosophers stone according to that definition is a semantic argument given the changed impact those words have had over time.

I like to liken cell phone technology to telepathy for example, but it's a semantic technique to make it seem more awe inspiring than it actually is.

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #24333088 -

Crazy_Horse said:
Connoisseur said:
plants are older than humans
plants are born
plants die
plants communicate
plants grow
plants evolve
plants change
plants effect their environment
plants help us to exist and survive

need i go on?



You could explain why those things matter as far as psychedelics are concerned.


why does a plant create a psychedelic?
what is the purpose of the psychedelic experience in the mind of man?

the fact we dont have the answer to that question but can ponder its implications will bring you the only answers to your question we have available to us as humans currently.

@patrick i dont recall ever saying that any psychedelic was perfect, did I? I dont believe the term perfect has any application by definition to a psychedelic synthetic or other wise. if i did say that quote the context and ill go back and explain myself.


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25598736

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: Connoisseur] * 2
    #24333094 -

Connoisseur said:
these chemicals are altered versions of what exists in plants but why did we need to alter what was already perfect?


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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24333103 -

PatrickKn said:
Connoisseur said:
so let me ask you, if we are creating LSD from partially from natural chemicals and partially from unnatural chemicals are we not creating a type of philosophers stone?


Could anything be said differently of a snickers bar? Whether something is a philosophers stone according to that definition is a semantic argument given the changed impact those words have had over time.

I like to liken cell phone technology to telepathy for example, but it's a semantic technique to make it seem more awe inspiring than it actually is.


yes it could be said different because a snickers bar has none of the abilities so ascribed to the philosopher stone

im not saying that whole thing about alchemy to prove any kind of a point other than that we need to open our understanding of things we have erased from modern society more, much much more in order to get a better idea of how that people back in the day werent just stupid and were onto certain things weve now forgotten.

im just trying to challenge peoples ideas of reality, seems like its working quite well and im glad!


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25598736

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: Connoisseur]
    #24333111 -

humans.......just another force of nature.


--------------------
CA weed @ all times unless specified
currently this high
pebbles suck
its turtles all the way down

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24333123 -

PatrickKn said:
Connoisseur said:
these chemicals are altered versions of what exists in plants but why did we need to alter what was already perfect?



ohh ok sorry this thread is moving so fast my mind is all over the place

as far as what i mean by that is that nature needs no alteration to exist and sustain itself perfectly as it is

its cycles and its balancing factors arent really "perfect" by definition but what i really mean is they have had MUCH MUUUUUCH longer to evolve into their current form than we have and as such have been striving for perfection over the course of idk maybe millions of years?

the balance of nature IMO is perfect, it has only been thrown off by the unnatural creations of man and the ego of man

without those things which are in the hands and mind of man we wouldnt have any horrendous planetary issues as we do today do to mans stupidity and greed

not only all that but the most basic example i can give that we can ALL agree on 100% is why the fuck did humanity need to invent synthetic cannabinoids? that serves no valid purpose outside of the bullshit game that is human society (drug testing, poverty ect) so why the fuck did we go and create a synthetic version of that when we didnt need to at all?


--------------------
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25598736

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: Connoisseur] * 1
    #24333136 -

Connoisseur said:
yes it could be said different because a snickers bar has none of the abilities so ascribed to the philosopher stone


Acid does not turn lead to gold though, as a snickers bar does not. You claimed it could perhaps fit the description of a philosophers stone because it was a combination of natural and unnatural chemicals (and I would argue that the designations of natural or not are only important depending on context as well).

A snickers bar fits into this description.

Connoisseur said:
im not saying that whole thing about alchemy to prove any kind of a point other than that we need to open our understanding of things we have erased from modern society more, much much more in order to get a better idea of how that people back in the day werent just stupid and were onto certain things weve now forgotten.


I agree and it's a subject I'm highly interested in and talk about frequently. But we also need to filter out various misunderstandings of the past in the process. Stuff that is given added or reduced emphasis because the emotional implications of certain language has changed over time, which can drastically make something seem as it's not.

Connoisseur said:
im just trying to challenge peoples ideas of reality, seems like its working quite well and im glad!


And I'm directly challenging this myself in another direction entirely.

Edited by PatrickKn (05/19/17 04:10 PM)

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: psilly the kid]
    #24333156 -

psilly the kid said:
humans.......just another force of nature.


what can I say, I guess this IS true - but again for some people its nicer to go into the woods than into the forest, the "old" nature has its very own way of being interesting and beautiful - its so effortless and flowy and as alan watts would say "gooey" or "wriggley" which is to say continuos - which is less so with humans, but thats not neccesarily a bad thing, all up 2 you - I guess being too modern or too archaic is wrong, but cultivating mushrooms is a good compromise between that - I guess it also depends on how you use the substance, whith what kind of mindset (looking more into the future and rational or more artistic and naturalistic and more into the past) ideally you need both, always, thats polarity


--------------------
"to affirm life is to also affirm death"
-Albert hofmann

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: polaritymind]
    #24333161 -

polaritymind said:
Connoisseur said:
i have a theory about the evolution of mushrooms and plants that i want to mention but im not sure if it deserves to be in this thread or its own thread because its its own concept entirely.

regardless im sure you guys will find it very interesting and im sure many of you will agree that my theory is correct because its all by scientifically confirmed.

should i post it in here?


why not both, give us a small digest here because it fits and then also give it the honors of its own thread, surely some poeple will only see it here and some only there so it will have more attenion that way and be honored and discussed more deeply and fully that way :smile:



ok so heres the theory its very simple

i believe that all forms of organically produced DMT are all part of one  spirit/entity/hive mind/what ever the fuck you want to call it

so mushrooms, NNDMT, 5MEODMT, Bufotenin and the others are all pieces of one greater consciousness

now the idea is that this greater consciousness has the same agenda that all plants have, it want to expand its existence and spread itself over the planet as much as it can

but there is one problem, NNDMT which is the MOST COMMON form of DMT found on the planet is not orally active ordinarily

also the plants and animals which create 5MEO and Bufo are quite rare and only found in certain places on the planet

this is where my theory goes one of two different ways and i think either is possible

either NNDMT is older than psilocybin and evolved out to become psilocybin in order to allow itself to be orally active and to grow in more places on planet earth

OR

psilocybin is older than NNDMT and evolved to become that in order to be exposed to places where mushrooms do not grow

im not sure how bufo and 5meo play into it all exactly but like i said they are much much more rare so i havent thought that all out yet


--------------------
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25598736

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: Connoisseur]
    #24333179 -

Connoisseur said:
PatrickKn said:
Connoisseur said:
these chemicals are altered versions of what exists in plants but why did we need to alter what was already perfect?



ohh ok sorry this thread is moving so fast my mind is all over the place

as far as what i mean by that is that nature needs no alteration to exist and sustain itself perfectly as it is

its cycles and its balancing factors arent really "perfect" by definition but what i really mean is they have had MUCH MUUUUUCH longer to evolve into their current form than we have and as such have been striving for perfection over the course of idk maybe millions of years?

the balance of nature IMO is perfect, it has only been thrown off by the unnatural creations of man and the ego of man

without those things which are in the hands and mind of man we wouldnt have any horrendous planetary issues as we do today do to mans stupidity and greed

not only all that but the most basic example i can give that we can ALL agree on 100% is why the fuck did humanity need to invent synthetic cannabinoids? that serves no valid purpose outside of the bullshit game that is human society (drug testing, poverty ect) so why the fuck did we go and create a synthetic version of that when we didnt need to at all?


Is man not natural? Is nature's seeming imbalance not a product of the human imagination at that? What alterations to nature does man provide that nature didn't provide itself?

We created synthetic cannabinoids presumably for medical testing at first. When hard alcohol got big in Europe, it devastated many communities, just as it did later with Native American tribes. It took several generations for Europeans to become more accustomed to alcohol, to not let it ruin entire populations, for people to develop safer habits with it. This happened both genetically and culturally, and Native American cultures are getting through the same problems many European ones had in some locations where alcohol abuse is rampant and takes control of a whole region. This is how humans react to their environment.

Why did humanity need to invent synthetic cannabinoids? Curiosity mostly, demand for them. Just like anything else, even beyond drugs. Cars are deadly and we're just now getting to a point where they will be safer to implement internationally (self-driving cars, traffic lights in other countries that have none, etc.).

This is as much a part of the ebb and flow of life as anything else. Whether something is natural or not is a spectrum from which to view things, not a black and white designator. Everything is natural, and everything is unnatural. A lot of the time, it's something in between.

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: PatrickKn]
    #24333190 -

PatrickKn said:
This is as much a part of the ebb and flow of life as anything else. Whether something is natural or not is a spectrum from which to view things, not a black and white designator. Everything is natural, and everything is unnatural. A lot of the time, it's something in between.


Yes very nice Im starting to like you more and more :wink:


--------------------
"to affirm life is to also affirm death"
-Albert hofmann

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: PatrickKn] * 1
    #24333191 -

the philosopher stone is just one example of this among many things that alchemists worked to create both physically and spiritually

the true definition of alchemy is the combining of the spiritual and physical worlds and one of its main focuses was on the refining or producing of spiritual and material things

also this is not the only reason i said LSD can be considered a philosophers stone

a philosophers stone by definition is one thing that can do all things and as such the mind/spirit of man is the most commonly accepted philosophers stone

the idea of turning lead into gold is both literal in certain situations and metaphorical in others it was often used as a term to describe turning common things what ever they may be into precious things

beyond that the entire concept of alchemy and the philosophers stone is based on the idea that our understanding of reality shapes our experience of reality, a fool does not see the same world as the wise man and as such the roles are interchangeable depending on the perseveres vantage point


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25598736

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: Connoisseur]
    #24333195 -

jesus christ this talk is getting heavy and im loving it but im getting sucked into it like a vacuum and im really sitting on my couch naked sweating dehydrated and starving right now

goes to show what kind of priorities i have in life right guys?

i think im gonna need to take a break from this thread just for a bit but i will come back to it very soon.

i have more answers to questions and want to continue this!


--------------------
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25598736

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Re: Have You Guys Forgotten? [Re: Connoisseur]
    #24333224 -

A website can evolve just as humans does.


It is beyond mushrooms now. You can't seem to figure that one at.

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