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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21101969 -

I wonder if the shrinking sup thing might happen less in a quart container... Part of why it happens is gradual moisture loss, right? Maybe in a container that retains that moisture there could be less shrinking?
I look forward to Muda's experience.  If he has less of a side pin problem then consolidation could become more beneficial for this tek


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21101996 -

Yeah i found any more time just makes it take longer to fruit and no addition to yield. 1 week is what I've been doing, thanks for the reassurance.


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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: tombosley8]
    #21101998 -

Yield isn't what we're trying to improve with consolidation usually.  Most find it has a pronounced effect on potency, however.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
Jokes are funny until they're about you

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Violet]
    #21102028 -

No it still happens in the quart pp5's tho they are a little easier to deal with. The biggest factor behind the shrinking sub is the the consumption of water and nutes with CO2 being expelled as the main byproduct. All my pp5 containers are done and I will not be doing more with them anytime soon as they are earmarked for other projects. I wish I took a picture of some of them but they were all being used to test PE isolates and most were nothing special so I left the camera on the shelf.

A little consolidation helps cut mutants down with a high nute sub, speeds up pin time and ensures the culture is no longer in a veg state. The last One is really important for these as they will sit there loosing moisture while it switches states.


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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21102040 -

Especially that last one.

I've had so much better luck with pinning times recently by just not putting them in fruiting so quickly.  Once I see speckles of primordia all over it I switch in the poly and they blow up.

It used to seem so hard to get things to fruit in comparison.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Inocuole]
    #21102218 -

Inocuole said:
Yield isn't what we're trying to improve with consolidation usually.  Most find it has a pronounced effect on potency, however.


First time ive heard that.  Whats the science behind that then?

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Edmunter]
    #21102224 -

This is really not the thread for that, there is a thread for that that this was discussed in though.  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21064701/page/1  Takes a while to get to the good stuff.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
Jokes are funny until they're about you

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Inocuole] * 1
    #21102298 -

Interesting thread and its unproven about consolidating making stronger fruit.  At this stage its all opinion.  Im still strictly in the  'Its genetics' Camp and how each individual strain reacts to its environment. 

Off topic but there you go.

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Edmunter]
    #21102366 -

Well it's the "opinion" of long-established international sclerotia growers/vendors.
At this point it is as good as known.  Many (if not most) of the TCs around here stand by it, and even RR has no contest of it I have seen


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Violet]
    #21102420 -

Has it been tested?

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Edmunter]
    #21102599 -

If someone has been able to send illegal specimens into a lab for spectrograph, or bought a multi-thousand-dollar spectrograph for this specific purpose, I sure haven't heard of it.
This convo is so lather-rinse-repeat...
"Has it been tested"? Yes, by countless people countless times.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Edmunter]
    #21102699 -

Edmunter said:
Whats the science behind that then?


A user called mycofile talked of incubating grains for 3+months. Here was his take on it.


mycofile said:
I think it's more a matter of the fungus using it's initial energy to colonize the substrate as a priority, then using the available nutrients for fruit production and as a lower priority, production of secondary metabolites such as psilo's.  Seeing as how it's  not apparent that these chemicals are necessary or even beneficial for the fungus, it makes sense that their production wouldn't be a top priority.  Establishing a colonized network is top priority, and producing fruit bodies if possible would obviously be an/the evolutionary priority.

For those interested in having quantitative analysis performed, I have some not so encouraging info.  I pm'd anno who had some quantitative tests done a while back and got this relatively bad news in reply:
Quote:
Hello,
unfortunately my contact doesn't have this option anymore.
As for the costs, providing the person who does the test does it for free, there is still the cost for the psilocybin and psilocin calibrating standard, which is around $800.

Anno


So, that options out the window.  If anybody else has any contacts please share them, publicly or privately.  Perhaps a lab located in a country where it is legal (not the us) would have access to the standard  making the costs somewhat attainable.  But it seems anyone with just friendly access to a lab would likely still have to shell out the $800 for the standard.



Quote:
I won't speak for cakes, but I will say that overincubated grain when used as spawn to straw/castings/dung (alone and mixes) will yield more potent fruits than the same spawn used when "fresh". I will also tell you that overincubated grain when cased and fruited will produce above average fruits compared to the same grain if cased when "fresh". Now, I don't know what qualifications you seek from somebody to put them in the "knows their shit" category, but I'd be pretty surprised if you didn't include me in that category. I've grown cubensis for well over a decade, and have repeated this particular experiment with several strains and several different growing meothods and environments over several years. I don't have quantitative lab data, and I know how subjective bioassays can be. And knowing that I'm still telling you there is something to this. Note that I don't think it has anything to do with the studies of varrying potencies and ratios over flushes. I think it is simply that substrate allowed to incubate well beyond full colonization will produce more potent fruits. So far as I know, no professional mycologist has performed this study. That by no means that there isn't something to it.


mycofile said:
Please give me a potency report after they are grown.  One month over-incubation is the minimum I have seen a potency increase with, and I'm interested in hearing even more validation of the idea (subjective of course).  Good luck. 

Oh, you may want to be careful with the first few doses, particularly if you are sharing.  I had several friends (very experienced psychonauts) wig out a little, even on much less than their usual doses.  I'd start with a gram and then work your way up.  Cubies from over-incubated spawn are just as if not more potent than Pan. cyans in my (sometimes) humble experience.


Edmunter said:
Has it been tested?


Testing is meant to be very expensive as per the quotes above.

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: blackout]
    #21102779 -

Thank you blackout for another excellent opinion in favor from strong experience.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Violet]
    #21102986 -

:thumbup:

Has it been tested.... :lol:

I don't think anyone has done a quantitative test of the difference in potency between PE and regular cubes either but it sure would be a hoot to cast doubt on that.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
Jokes are funny until they're about you

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Inocuole]
    #21103041 -

Considering I usually dose around 5-7 grams of regular cubes and 1.5-2 grams for PE that would be one scary blind test :crazy2:


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:headbang3: Pastywhyte's Easy Writeups :headbang3: My Favorite Grow Logs :headbang3:
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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21103078 -

Muda would do that test without thinking twice.  In fact, he would just do both tests at the same time.  :lol:

Did he say he had eaten an ounce of PE?  Not sure if it was wet or dry.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
Jokes are funny until they're about you

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Inocuole]
    #21103117 -

Dry. . . Muda is insane. I ate a half oz of street cubes once, was about as strong as 2.5 grams of APE :crazy2:


--------------------
:headbang3: Pastywhyte's Easy Writeups :headbang3: My Favorite Grow Logs :headbang3:
:headbang3: Avoiding the dreaded facepalm in cultivation :headbang3: The worst threads all have the same subjects :headbang3:
:headbang3: Q & A.M.U. :headbang3:

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Violet]
    #21107307 -

Violet said:
Thank you blackout for another excellent opinion in favor from strong experience.


So it still just hypotheses which is almost proof but not quite.

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Edmunter]
    #21107364 -

So i've managed to fashion together a blade from an old blender.  Im on my first 3 jars from a culture and 3 days in they are almost done.  Im going to make a grain slurry out of one and GS2G enough jars to make a mono(im already making a mono with agar slurry).





Once colonised with a little consolidation(just in case hey?)  Im going to sterilise some grain water add it to the jar and make 2/3s of the grains into slurry.  Then mix it all in with the substrate and see how much quicker colonisation takes. Am I asking for contams using grain water?

Also Id like to ask the question, if we are passed sterile stage and slurry really is quicker why not just poor the grains into a regular clean blender with sterile water and blend it up?  What problems do you foresee with this method?

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Re: Liquid Inoculant [Re: Edmunter]
    #21107417 -

Edmunter said:
So it still just hypotheses which is almost proof but not quite.


Kindof. Something can be proven yet the majority on the planet can be unaware.
Oh it's as good as proven.  However that proof isn't put in a form that would convince people who refuse to believe something without a certain kind of documentation and who won't find out first-hand themselves.

Old hands know it, TCs know it, microbiology and metabolic chemistry support it, businesses adjust their procedures to account for it, and countless individuals over decades have experienced it.

If you're going to believe it doesn't depend on the evidence. It depends on if you'll accept the evidence given. Why would you believe it from some unknown lab rat but not the huge compiling of experience and knowledge here and elsewhere?

If you want to discount all that, and wait on a publishing in a scientific journal, your prerogative.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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