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OfflineOpenminded
Dicotyledon

Registered: 08/28/03
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Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..?
    #1858269 - 08/28/03 09:49 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

OK, I'm new to this, so please excuse any stupidity. I have searched but not found a definite answer either here or on the web, so here goes...

In theory, would it be possible to put a few shrooms in a blender/food processor, add water and whizz it to form a thin soup, and then inoculate an agar mixture or rice/vermiculite jars with that?

I know mushroom tissue will grow if you cut out a sterile bit and place it onto agar, but I'm not sure if it'd still work after you reduce it to a soup, eg a mouse will grow if you feed it, but not after you put it in a blender...

The reason for asking is that it would seem to be easier than spore printing, then making a spore syringe and inoculating with that. Although perhaps contamination would be more likely...

At the moment I am practicing my growing technique with some normal mushrooms, the kind normal people eat, to make sure that I can do everything in a sterile way. Then if I have success I'll get myself some spores, but I wanted to practice first. I have tried my idea, but there's been no growth so far. However, I think that maybe the mushrooms (from a big supermarket) may have been pasteurised or something, since sterile tissure taken from the middle of the mushrooms has not shown any growth on either malt-extract agar or dog food agar mediums... perhaps I am just being impatient.

Thanks for any input...


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OfflinePooPs
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: Openminded]
    #1858285 - 08/28/03 09:58 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

How long have you waited?

Store baught shrooms might not be a good start for cloning tissue!!

You can use the blender thing.. but contam is a big concern..

You had a better idea with the chunk from a stem..

to hell with agar.. simply transfer stem tissue directly into grain! and then grain transfer away!


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Offlinethisone
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: PooPs]
    #1858645 - 08/28/03 12:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

would that really work. Just cutting away a inside section of shroom to innoculate grain. How big of a chunk would you need? Would you keep it whole or slice it up for more innoc points?

Would it be better to take an slice and put it in karo water to germinate for more even myc distribution, or would the shroom rot in the water?


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: thisone]
    #1858750 - 08/28/03 01:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Store bought shrooms have been dead for days so they won't work. Your idea will though. Just be sure to get the tissue from the middle of the stem and not from the outside or your asking for a contam farm.


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OfflinePooPs
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: Magash]
    #1858824 - 08/28/03 01:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The less you fuck with that chunk the better..

don't handle it anymore than you have to.. cut.. and chuck ;.... in the grain that is.. wait for it to colonize a bit and shake the grain to distribute the mycelium!!!


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Sniff, Sniff... What's that smell???... ohhhhh.!!
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Pot Free for another : nevermind.. never made it..


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OfflineOpenminded
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: PooPs]
    #1858871 - 08/28/03 02:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the replies everyone!

Yeah, I had thought that my mushrooms may be dead already, I wasn't sure how long the tissue could stay alive. That's made me feel a lot better, since it means that my technique probably wasn't to blame. No contamination has grown either (after about 10 days, from what I've read I should see something by now if it has been contaminated), so I'm happy that I should be able to do it right, and have therefore ordered some spores. I'm getting really quite excited about starting my first grow :smile:.


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: Openminded]
    #1859246 - 08/28/03 04:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Your concerned with a cloning method, when you are just starting, and going to be working with spores? Hmm... Getting a bit ahead of yourself there, huh?

Anyway, good luck. Since you have already begun to play with agar, you should have no problem getting started. Cloning is quite easy, but you should expect better results using the agar method with a piece of stem, than the blender method (seriously flawed). Getting it started on agar then producing a liquid inocculant will work best, or transferring a wedge to a jar of grain will work too. You could also just put a chunk of stem in a grain jar, but growing out a single plate can do many more jars than a single stem can.


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To give is to live...



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Offlinedarkmaula
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1859306 - 08/28/03 04:23 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

hey, what about putting a chunk into a karo solution like he asked?

that seems a lot safer since you can tell if it's contamed before you even go near the substrate...


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OfflineOpenminded
Dicotyledon

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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: darkmaula]
    #1859365 - 08/28/03 04:35 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

There's a big topic on the karo tek that I was just reading, and someone has posted a pic of a ball of mycelium growing in karo solution, which grew from a little bit of stem. So that seems like a good way to go for cloning. I'll probably try putting a mL of spore solution into some karo too, in the hope of getting more jars inoc'd.

ATWAR, yeah I probably am getting ahead of myself thinking about cloning, but I'll need to know how to do it sooner or later so I thought I'd find out about it. This way I have more time to work out where I'm going to fuck up :smile:. Also there is a shop in my city that sells fresh shrooms, I was thinking about cloning some of them too since I have all the necessary things lying around.


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: Openminded]
    #1860170 - 08/28/03 08:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ATWAR, yeah I probably am getting ahead of myself thinking about cloning, but I'll need to know how to do it sooner or later so I thought I'd find out about it. This way I have more time to work out where I'm going to fuck up




I didn?t want to come off as though I was saying you shouldn?t be doing something like this, as you have not even grown. I think it is wonderful you are practicing before you even grow, this shows you take pride in what you do, and want the best results possible.

More people should learn from your methods. :cool:


The Karo tek would probably work fine; as it is supposed to create a nice liquid inoculant (I have never used it, only the honey tek). Karo (or another liquid tek) and agar would be your fastest methods of producing spawn from a clone. Simply taking the stem and putting a piece in grain would work, but usually grain transfers of mycelium grow much slower than a liquid inoculant. The dispersal of mycelium from the liquid is much greater than a little piece of stem or grain, and you cannot always disperse it all around evenly by shaking when partially colonized. If done at the wrong time, shaking can actually be counterproductive.
 


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Invisiblear393
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1860447 - 08/28/03 10:11 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

actually back in the pages somewhere there exists posts and teks using a mason jar and a blender (like those you sould use to make a margarita). the thread/blade assembly fits on a normal mouth mason jar, so you would place some water in the mason jar, screw blade assembly to the jar, PC it for 15 @ 15. then you would take the tissue sample from the inside of the mushroom and pop it into the jar in a glove box, then puree the fucker and then use that to innoculate your new jars via syringes.

now since this is your plan for your first attempt you are pretty much setting up yourself 99 percent failure. I would read a WHOLE lot more, go PF tek with Karo if you want to be "noobie advanced" about it.
-ar393


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OfflineJonnyDatsun
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: ar393]
    #1860937 - 08/29/03 12:13 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You sound exactly like me - trying to perfect my sterile and growing methods on gourmets before experimenting with growing other shrooms.

How do you know if a karo jar gets contaminated?

About 4 days ago, I took a piece from the center of a portabella and dropped it into a karo jar. There does not seem to be any mycelium growing off the chunk, but the liquid is getting a bit cloudy with strands of what I think are mycelium floating around in there. How do I know if it's mycelium or a contaminant?

I did start a karo jar with some oyster mushroom spores today. Hopefully that will turn out allright.


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OfflineOpenminded
Dicotyledon

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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: JonnyDatsun]
    #1861777 - 08/29/03 06:00 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You could try some control jars - sterilised but not inoc'd jars of karo. Then if you get growth in these that looks like the growth in your inoc'd karo, it means it could well be contamination. Maybe open up the control jars for as long as your inoc'd karo was open (for the inoculation), so that contams had the same chance to get in both, to make it fairer.

Obviously this wouldn't give you a 100% definite answer about whether or not it's contaminated, but it might give you some idea...

Or just keep growing it and see what happens :smile:.


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: ar393]
    #1861803 - 08/29/03 06:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ar393 said:
actually back in the pages somewhere there exists posts and teks using a mason jar and a blender (like those you sould use to make a margarita). the thread/blade assembly fits on a normal mouth mason jar, so you would place some water in the mason jar, screw blade assembly to the jar, PC it for 15 @ 15. then you would take the tissue sample from the inside of the mushroom and pop it into the jar in a glove box, then puree the fucker and then use that to innoculate your new jars via syringes.

-ar393




Nice. I have never heard of, or seen these before. In this case, it would work very well although you would still want to use just a piece of the center of the stem. You can actually peel the inside out sometimes. It was not clear in the original post or not if the actual method involved isolating pure tissue or just throwing the whole mushie in the blender. The latter would most definitely result in massive contamination, on multiple levels.

I was thinking regular kitchen blender... Not easy to sterilize...


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OfflinePooPs
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1862187 - 08/29/03 10:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Why bother with the agar carp..

Go to the grain directly.. i agree with ^^^ who said timing of the shaking is somewhat important.. make sure you have a good sized colonized spot before you shake.. and don't be shy.. shake that sucker real good!!!

A quick tip.. when you make your first batch of grain jars.. don't have them filled anymore than 1/2, otherwise it's hard to shake them properly! and even less is fine!

better to have a 1/2 filled jar fully colonize in 10 days than a 3/4 one not finish at all!!

Don't waste your time on the agar!!!


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Sniff, Sniff... What's that smell???... ohhhhh.!!
------------------


Pot Free for another : nevermind.. never made it..


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Offlineharryp2000
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: Openminded]
    #8489847 - 06/05/08 09:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm reviving this topic because I'm getting into growing, I've got one glass of golden teacher mycelium nearly finished now at around 99% colonization.

I'd like to carry on growing golden teachers without buying another syringe and not making a liquid culture out of it, I'd like to use living mushroom tissue to make a few jars then expand into new methods later, it's interesting getting into growing, learning about the processes and life cycle and actually seeing it happen.

I was actually going to go straight off and buy a grow kit but growing from scratch has  been a great learning experience.

I was wondering how I'd go about using living mushroom to inoculate, do I have it right?

I'm thinking I'd have to cut a stem or cap and place it into a sterilized grain/other mixture glass by taking off the lid quickly and placing a few pieces inside then covering it up again. I was wondering how I'd get around getting past the vermiculite barrier that would be used to stop contamination from unwanted bacteria/mold or would I not use a barrier when cloning like this just filling the jar up with substrate mixture?

Thanks in advance for any help, love and peace to all,

Harry.


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OfflineKukukatcho
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: harryp2000]
    #8490365 - 06/05/08 11:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I use WBS and have been growing the same strains since march with no problems (aside from my rough start).

To start the process anew, I just use the colonized birdseed. I take an empty jar and put metal washers in it, then fill with some water. Before I case my colonized  jar, I cut out a bit colonized WBS and toss it into the jar with water and washers. Then I shake the hell out of it and suck up the water with a blank syringe. I use that to 'noc up my other jars, and have full colonization in about 10-12 days. (Of course Im super sterile doing all of this)

This method hasnt let me down, and its pretty quick. And easier I think.......


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While there are some aspects written in stone, much of mushroom growing is very opinionated.

Take your time, do your research, and be patient.

         


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Offlineharryp2000
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: Kukukatcho]
    #8491751 - 06/06/08 08:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

ah sweet, what are the washers used for? I'll have to give it a go to carry on these golden teachers!


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: Openminded]
    #8491801 - 06/06/08 09:00 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

A) That button mushroom I assume you're using won't exhibit the same kind of speedy growth as a cubensis sample. It wasn't pasteurized--people don't pasteurize fresh mushrooms, that would be really gross.

B) What you suggest is not only possible, but pretty effective. It's a sloppy technique, but I had great success with it as a newbie. I took a largish sample from the inner stem of a healthy fruit from my very first grow, and tossed it in an alcohol-sterilized (and rinsed) food processor with sterile water. Blend pretty well, enough so you don't plug up your syringe (though you will experience some pluggage, believe me). Draw into sterile syringe, and use just like a purchased spore syringe.

It took off within just a couple of days, much faster than spores or a liquid culture. I suspect this is because of the sheer amount of tissue that was injected. The speed of growth may have contributed to the 100% success rate I got from those twelve half-pint jars--beating contaminants to the punch is always a plus.


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OfflineKukukatcho
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Re: Inoculating with mushed up shroom tissue..? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #8493037 - 06/06/08 05:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The washers just help break up the colonized WBS.


--------------------
While there are some aspects written in stone, much of mushroom growing is very opinionated.

Take your time, do your research, and be patient.

         


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