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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #18477246 -

Anonymous #2 said:
Quote:
If they had put Stephen up for adoption and he had not received advanced medical care or an education, he would not have been the same person.



So rather than take the gamble of producing world changing brilliance. Its better to just not take that chance?

There is no way to predict the potential of any human being.



No, now you're setting up a strawman. Ignoring the fact that Hawking's disease had a gradual onset long after he was born, I still have not argued that the disabled should be aborted, I'm simply arguing that parents should be able to abort a child whenever they want, up to maybe 24 hours after birth (giving some time for complications and hard decisions to occur).

I'm not saying that any abortions should be mandatory, just that they should not be limited due to political pandering about pain.

There is a way to predict the potential of a human being, it's called socio-economics. A child born to a single mother living in poverty off of government assistance, who wanted to abort the kid in the first place and who places no value on education in a state that ranks 48th/50 for literacy and education, is not going to turn into a Stephen Hawking. Stephen Hawking is Stephen Hawking because his parents were highly educated and made sure their children were too.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #18477272 -

Anonymous #2 said:
Quote:
You call me retarded and suggest putting me down just as Anon #2 did, yet I haven't resorted to pitiful personal attacks on anyone I'm debating against.



I dont think you are retarded. The idea of putting you down is to put in perspective your original idea. Why would it not be acceptable to put down the average homeless guy versus a baby.

Neither have really accomplished anything by your reasoning. And both would be a leach on society. If the only difference here is whether they feel pain or not....well hell...its possible to kill people painlessly.

We could even OD them on Morphine and give them a pleasurable death. Should we round up all the homeless and make short work of them?



Exactly!  It's a sarcastic parallel OP, I know you're not retarded for fucks sake.

If you don't see contradiction in what you posted than I am done here OP.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #18477282 -

Anonymous #2 said:
Quote:
You call me retarded and suggest putting me down just as Anon #2 did, yet I haven't resorted to pitiful personal attacks on anyone I'm debating against.



I dont think you are retarded. The idea of putting you down is to put in perspective your original idea. Why would it not be acceptable to put down the average homeless guy versus a baby.

Neither have really accomplished anything by your reasoning. And both would be a leach on society. If the only difference here is whether they feel pain or not....well hell...its possible to kill people painlessly.

We could even OD them on Morphine and give them a pleasurable death. Should we round up all the homeless and make short work of them?



Again, you're setting this up as if I'm stating that abortion should be mandatory. It would not be acceptable to put down the average homeless guy because he is a conscious, experienced person capable of deciding whether or not he wants to live. A baby is not, it has little to no understanding of what it's looking at, why it's crying, what is going on, or how shitty it's life is probably going to be. A parent can and should act as the conscious entity that's responsible for the baby's life. If the parent knows that the chances of it being a good life are slim due to poverty, medical conditions, the rampant drug addictions and poor decision making of the parent, etc, then the responsible and ethical thing to do is put it down and I don't think that the government should step in the way because of some misguided desire to protect the baby from pain.

Not to sidetrack, but I do believe that our society should have euthanasia centers where anyone, homeless people to 1%ers, could go for painless suicide assistance. I do not believe that it should be mandatory due to their medical conditions or contributions to the world (or a lack thereof).

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #6]
    #18477284 -

Quote:
I'm simply arguing that parents should be able to abort a child whenever they want, up to maybe 24 hours after birth



Sure, okay so you're cool with murder then :thumbup::facepalm:

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #6]
    #18477297 -

From Dictionary.com:


Quote:
a·bor·tion  [uh-bawr-shuhn]  Show IPA
noun
1.
Also called voluntary abortion. the removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus in order to end a pregnancy.
2.
any of various surgical methods for terminating a pregnancy, especially during the first six months.
3.
Also called spontaneous abortion. miscarriage (  def 1 ) .
4.
an immature and nonviable fetus.
5.
abortus (  def 2b ) .



Pretty much specifies "Fetus" on each count.

After birth is something else.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #6]
    #18477319 -

Anonymous #6 said:
Quote:
I'm simply arguing that parents should be able to abort a child whenever they want, up to maybe 24 hours after birth



Sure, okay so you're cool with murder then :thumbup::facepalm:



Yes, yes I am, in certain instances, just like you and everyone else on this planet. I am just slightly more progressive with the instances in which I believe it to be ok.

When human cloning comes full circle and we can clone a fully grown man into existence without memory or a fully developed conscious awareness, I would also be ok with humanely putting down extraneous or faulty clones as well.

I am only against murder when the individual being murdered is a conscious being with memories, experiences, a desire not to die, and track record of not harming or killing others. A newborn or unborn baby does not meet that criteria.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #18477322 -

Ive also been setting you up as a straw man from the first post.

But I never said anything about mandatory euthanasia.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #18477371 -

Yes you have, in at least two posts you've brought up euthanizing homeless people for their lack of contribution to society, and in regards to the Stephen Hawking thing you inquired as to whether or not I thought he should have been aborted for being disabled.

Both are examples of mandatory euthanasia.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18477380 -

And in both cases I asked what you thought.

Lets stay on topic though.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #18477386 -

OP, I agree with your proposition. I've thought about this several times actually and think this would be a good option and a benefit to society. Particularly in instances where children born are severely disabled or genetically defective. Sounds harsh but I believe parents should have that option.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #7]
    #18477422 -

:highfive:

Cool, at least a couple level headed people agree with me here.

It's a well documented fact that people abandoned deformed and defective babies throughout human history, at least putting them down with opiates or by snipping the spine is more humane than leaving them for the wolves or throwing them off a cliff like Spartan peoples did.

Our society has everything wrong: Legalize drugs and real criminals can be taken care of, encourage abortion and real criminals will become scarcer, legalize prostitution and rapes will decrease, even further reducing the amount of real criminals. We could pump money back into the economy and stifle crime, but all these Bible-thumping halfwits like Rick Perry fuck everything up by appealing to emotional parents. "Think of the children!"

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #4]
    #18478973 -

Anonymous #4 said:
Abort Texans post birth!!!


>>>"Texans value life and want to protect women and the unborn."


Says the turd with more executions than anyone else. They are nothing but hypocritical trash.



lmao I hate this liberal standpoint. They want to give the child a chance at life. If you get the death penalty, that means you have been convicted of a very bad crime against others.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18478989 -

Anonymous #1 said:
Am I the only person who doesn't think it should be a crime to abort your own child even shortly after it's born?

I see this debate going on in Texas where Republicans are trying very hard to close most abortion centers (30/40 iirc) and prevent abortions after 20 weeks, and their main argument is that after the 20 weeks the fetus can feel pain, which ofc is nonsense backed up by absolutely nothing, but still I find myself wondering why anyone gives a fuck if a fetus feels pain or not in the first place?

It's going to feel pain when it's birthed, and it's going to feel pain throughout it's entire life, and so is the woman who carried it to term. Big whoop.

If some poor woman knows she can't take care of the fucking baby, and the father doesn't object or have the means to take care of said baby, I think it does the world, the parents and the baby a favor to put that fucker down. I think the parent(s) should even have a few hours after birth to decide if they want to keep it alive or not (although I think going through labor pains just to kill it is also retarded).

The giant douche Rick Perry (Texas Governor) says, "Texans value life and want to protect women and the unborn."

Besides the obvious fact that closing abortion centers does the opposite of protecting women, this statement is retarded because Texans don't really value life all that much. We eat like shit, we drink lots of whiskey and beer, we almost all own guns and fantasize about killing intruders, bank robbers, terrorists, or anybody else we could get away with, we have a history of hanging black people, fag-dragging gay people to death, and there are many thousands if not millions of Texans who think we should be able to freely shoot illegal immigrants coming over the border. In every city including liberal Austin, you'd be hard pressed to not see at least four cars per day with, "God bless our troops, especially our snipers" on a bumper sticker. We don't value life once it's been shat out of a vagina, so why value it before then?

Pro tip: that fucking baby that doesn't get aborted doesn't grow up to be the next Mozart, it grows up to be a convicted felon because it's poor ass parents and the TV do a shitty job raising it, and it "ain't gon be no punk ass broke nigga, nawmean?". Especially in Texas, where most teenagers have trouble spelling five letter words. Kill it now and save everyone the trouble, but most of all quit pretending that it's our moral obligation to guilt-trip and inconvenience women into having another goddamn baby because we "value life." What an utterly transparent lie.

TL;DR - We should encourage killing babies instead of making it harder to get done, because people are shitty parents and babies are only cute until they're old enough to put on an oversized white tee and walk with a fake limp and sagging pants.



:trollmove:

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #8]
    #18479030 -

They want to give the child a chance at life, and then give it and it's parent(s) no further assistance of any kind and virtually no chance at anything but jail or construction, lol.

I agree that his standpoint is illogical but it doesn't change the fact that the GOP doesn't actually give a fuck about the child, they just want to legislate womens' bodies (despite lacking even fundamental knowledge of them) and appear to be the good guys by painting a portrait of saving the babies.

Posturing and pandering, is all that it is. Life for breakfast, death for lunch, it's the GOP way.

And no Anon9, I'm not trolling. If you read my other posts you'll see that I'm expressing my genuine thought-out opinions.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18479038 -

Anonymous #1 said:
They want to give the child a chance at life, and then give it and it's parent(s) no further assistance of any kind and virtually no chance at anything but jail or construction, lol.

I agree that his standpoint is illogical but it doesn't change the fact that the GOP doesn't actually give a fuck about the child, they just want to legislate womens' bodies (despite lacking even fundamental knowledge of them) and appear to be the good guys by painting a portrait of saving the babies.

Posturing and pandering, is all that it is. Life for breakfast, death for lunch, it's the GOP way.

And no Anon9, I'm not trolling. If you read my other posts you'll see that I'm expressing my genuine thought-out opinions.



Take your crying liberal heart and abort urself then.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #9]
    #18479049 -

I'm not a fucking liberal. I'm a gun owning, anti-welfare, pro-business Texan. I think we should abort the fucking babies so the state doesn't end up having to take care of them with my tax dollars.

I've thought about aborting myself plenty of times, but I like gambling, drugs and sex too much.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18480640 -

Anonymous #1 said:
I'm not a fucking liberal. I'm a gun owning, anti-welfare, pro-business Texan. I think we should abort the fucking babies so the state doesn't end up having to take care of them with my tax dollars.

I've thought about aborting myself plenty of times, but I like gambling, drugs and sex too much.



So this is about money then?  The state of Texas will use .01% of your state tax to fund unwanted children, which amounts to .07 cents of your real funding, big fucking deal.

White christian babies have no business getting murdered, they make up the foundation of Texas, why don't you just let Mexico take over the state, would that make you happy?

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #10]
    #18480859 -

It's about money, crime, women's right to decide what is best for them, overcrowded prisons, and politics, among other stuff.

You know nothing about costs, what do you think it costs for Rick the douche Perry to call special sessions until he gets his bible-thumping way? It's millions I'm sure. Then you have to add in the cost of the state-run orphanages and or the welfare costs that the baby will certainly entail, the averaged-out cost of housing the future adult in prison, the costs of the crimes it's going to commit to get to prison, and the exponential costs that the baby will add when it's dumb ass has another unwanted baby that isn't aborted for religious guilt or political prevention.

Mexico is already taking over the state, and it's not primarily "white christian babies" that are being aborted, although there are plenty of exceptions (I wouldn't have complained if Tim Tebow had never existed). This ban most likely disproportionately effects minorities and people who live in areas where one of the ten abortion centers don't exist.

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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #6]
    #18480955 -

Anonymous #6 said:
Anonymous #2 said:
Quote:
What if they are retards or deformed.




Maybe we should euthanize this guy?






I was literally going to say the exact same thing.



Hawking didn't become crippled until he was an adult so he wouldn't have qualified for a post birth abortion. :sad: Fortunately he would qualify for euthanasia. :smile: Not because he's crippled, but because he's Brit scum.


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Re: Post-birth abortions [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18481055 -

Anonymous #1 said:
It's about money, crime, women's right to decide what is best for them, overcrowded prisons, and politics, among other stuff.

You know nothing about costs, what do you think it costs for Rick the douche Perry to call special sessions until he gets his bible-thumping way? It's millions I'm sure. Then you have to add in the cost of the state-run orphanages and or the welfare costs that the baby will certainly entail, the averaged-out cost of housing the future adult in prison, the costs of the crimes it's going to commit to get to prison, and the exponential costs that the baby will add when it's dumb ass has another unwanted baby that isn't aborted for religious guilt or political prevention.

Mexico is already taking over the state, and it's not primarily "white christian babies" that are being aborted, although there are plenty of exceptions (I wouldn't have complained if Tim Tebow had never existed). This ban most likely disproportionately effects minorities and people who live in areas where one of the ten abortion centers don't exist.




That's the thing I never understood, why do white conservative care if minorities are getting abortions?  Shouldn't that be a good thing, less of the people they can't stand, less money to spend of their asses.

What white person in Texas wants a growing population of blacks and Mexicans?  Not very many.

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