Mafeki said:

They used data from 26 developed countries.

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moonrockmushy said:

luvdemshrooms said:

Because it's been shown that states with liberal firearms laws have lower rates of violent crime?

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What? Who showed this how?

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Prisoner#1 said:

Mafeki said:

They used data from 26 developed countries.

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I'm yet to have anyone answer this question... care to give it a try?


what the fuck makes a country a developed country

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Quote:

1. Almost half of gun owners own four or more guns.

We analyzed a national representative household telephone survey of over 2750 adults conducted in 2004.  We found that 38% of households (45% of men and 11% of women) reported owning at least one firearm.  Almost half (48%) of gun owners report owning four or more guns with a few possessing large numbers of guns; 64% of gun owners own at least one handgun.  Gun ownership remains widespread, but a smaller percentage of gun owners possess an increasing percentage of the gun stock.

Hepburn, Lisa; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. The US gun stock: Results from the 2004 national firearms survey.  Injury Prevention. 2007 13:15-19.


2. Owners of semi-automatic guns are more likely to binge drink than other gun owners.

We analyzed data from a national random digit dial telephone survey.  Owners of semi-automatic weapons are more likely than other gun owners to be male, own a gun for protection, and report binge drinking.

Hemenway, David; Richardson, Elizabeth. Characteristics of automatic or semi-automatic firearm ownership. American Journal of Public Health. 1997; 87:286-88.

3-4. Gun ownership creates external psychic costs.
We analyzed whether perceptions of safety might be affected if more people in a community acquired firearms, using data from a national random-digit-dial survey of adults conducted under the auspices of HICRC.  By a margin of more than 3 to 1, Americans would feel less safe, not safer, as others in their community acquire guns. Among women, but not among men, those who have been threatened with a gun are particularly likely to feel less safe.

Hemenway, David; Solnick, Sara J; Azrael, Deborah R.  Firearms and community feelings of safety. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology. 1995; 86:121-132.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Community firearms and community fear. Epidemiology. 2000; 11:709-714.

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luvdemshrooms said:

moonrockmushy said:

luvdemshrooms said:

Because it's been shown that states with liberal firearms laws have lower rates of violent crime?

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What? Who showed this how?

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You mean besides the fact that violent crime rates are falling at the same time carry permits are being issued at record rates?

Besides the fact that Florida's violent crime rate had a sharp drop after Florida went from MAY issue, to MUST issue?

Besides the fact that despite predictions of doom and gloom, no increased crime rates have come from more lenient carry laws?

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Those are excellent examples if you are trying to show a very small slice of a very large picture.  If you think that more guns = more safe you're just nutso.



src

Mafeki said:

Quote:

1. Almost half of gun owners own four or more guns.

We analyzed a national representative household telephone survey of over 2750 adults conducted in 2004.  We found that 38% of households (45% of men and 11% of women) reported owning at least one firearm.  Almost half (48%) of gun owners report owning four or more guns with a few possessing large numbers of guns; 64% of gun owners own at least one handgun.  Gun ownership remains widespread, but a smaller percentage of gun owners possess an increasing percentage of the gun stock.

Hepburn, Lisa; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. The US gun stock: Results from the 2004 national firearms survey.  Injury Prevention. 2007 13:15-19.


2. Owners of semi-automatic guns are more likely to binge drink than other gun owners.

We analyzed data from a national random digit dial telephone survey.  Owners of semi-automatic weapons are more likely than other gun owners to be male, own a gun for protection, and report binge drinking.

Hemenway, David; Richardson, Elizabeth. Characteristics of automatic or semi-automatic firearm ownership. American Journal of Public Health. 1997; 87:286-88.

3-4. Gun ownership creates external psychic costs.
We analyzed whether perceptions of safety might be affected if more people in a community acquired firearms, using data from a national random-digit-dial survey of adults conducted under the auspices of HICRC.  By a margin of more than 3 to 1, Americans would feel less safe, not safer, as others in their community acquire guns. Among women, but not among men, those who have been threatened with a gun are particularly likely to feel less safe.

Hemenway, David; Solnick, Sara J; Azrael, Deborah R.  Firearms and community feelings of safety. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology. 1995; 86:121-132.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Community firearms and community fear. Epidemiology. 2000; 11:709-714.

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Got to love that second one.

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Prisoner#1 said:

maybe we should add regulations for cars, maybe restrict the number of cars
people can buy and what types, I mean really.. does anyone need a hummer or
an escalade? those things are lethal

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Mafeki said:

I was just quoting the finding of the Harvard Firearm Research which is what this thread's about, and has been.

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moonrockmushy said:

Nothing

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Quote:

Significantly, when we look at the results of the Florida/Texas and the Pennsylvania/Illinois trends, the results are identical. There is strong support for the hypothesis that concealed carry reform reduces murder; weak support for reduction in aggravated assault and in robbery; and no support for a statistically noticeable reduction in rape.

Of all the states studied previously (in the state-by-state homicide trends), it was Florida, a large state with a major homicide problem, that was the only state to show a major change in its homicide rate after the enactment of concealed carry. The Withrow data reinforces the tentative conclusion suggested by the raw Florida data: in a large state with a serious crime problem, concealed carry reform may have a significant life-saving effect.

It is also possible, suggests Withrow's research, that carry reform could have a small but statistically significant effect in reducing aggravated assault and robbery.

In sum, this Paper has looked at three different approaches studying the effects of concealed carry reform on crime rates: a comparison of state homicide trends with national trends, a comparison of crime rates among different counties with different policies in California, and a comparison of before and after crime rates in Florida versus Texas, and in Pennsylvania and Illinois.

In all three studies, the results are consistent. Concealed carry reform appears to reduce murder rates, at least in large, high-crime states. Concealed carry reform may reduce aggravated assault and robbery rates. Perhaps most significantly, there is simply no evidence that concealed carry reform will cause a net increase in the homicide rate, or in any other crime rate. The fact that, despite the evidence of carry reform in nearly a third of American states, the gun control lobbies persist in predicting a major increase in homicide whenever concealed carry reform is introduced must be attributed to the triumph of (ghoulish) hope over experience.

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luvdemshrooms said:

Significantly, when we look at the results of the Florida/Texas and the Pennsylvania/Illinois trends, the results are identical. There is strong support for the hypothesis that concealed carry reform reduces murder; weak support for reduction in aggravated assault and in robbery; and no support for a statistically noticeable reduction in rape.

Of all the states studied previously (in the state-by-state homicide trends), it was Florida, a large state with a major homicide problem, that was the only state to show a major change in its homicide rate after the enactment of concealed carry. The Withrow data reinforces the tentative conclusion suggested by the raw Florida data: in a large state with a serious crime problem, concealed carry reform may have a significant life-saving effect.

It is also possible, suggests Withrow's research, that carry reform could have a small but statistically significant effect in reducing aggravated assault and robbery.

In sum, this Paper has looked at three different approaches studying the effects of concealed carry reform on crime rates: a comparison of state homicide trends with national trends, a comparison of crime rates among different counties with different policies in California, and a comparison of before and after crime rates in Florida versus Texas, and in Pennsylvania and Illinois.

In all three studies, the results are consistent. Concealed carry reform appears to reduce murder rates, at least in large, high-crime states. Concealed carry reform may reduce aggravated assault and robbery rates. Perhaps most significantly, there is simply no evidence that concealed carry reform will cause a net increase in the homicide rate, or in any other crime rate. The fact that, despite the evidence of carry reform in nearly a third of American states, the gun control lobbies persist in predicting a major increase in homicide whenever concealed carry reform is introduced must be attributed to the triumph of (ghoulish) hope over experience.

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/ShallIssue.htm#c25

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Quote:

1. “Shall issue” laws have no significant effect on the overall homicide rate

We analyzed the effect on homicide of changes in state-level gun carrying laws using pooled cross-sectional time-series data for 50 states from 1979-1998.  There was no statistically significant association between changes in concealed carry laws and state homicide rates.  The finding was consistent across a variety of models.

Hepburn, Lisa; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David.  The effect of nondiscretionary concealed weapon carrying laws on homicide.  Journal of Trauma. 2004; 56:676-681.

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Mafeki said:

Prisoner#1 said:

Mafeki said:

They used data from 26 developed countries.

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I'm yet to have anyone answer this question... care to give it a try?


what the fuck makes a country a developed country

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Quote:

Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.
We analyzed the relationship between homicide and gun availability using data from 26 developed countries from the early 1990s.  We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides. These results often hold even when the United States is excluded.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew. Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high income countries. Journal of Trauma. 2000; 49:985-88.

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Maybe the answer you're looking for is in the Journal of Trauma.

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Prisoner#1 said:

maybe you could list those 26 high income nations

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luvdemshrooms said:

That's the problem with beliefs.

Yours are clearly what you want to believe, despite opposing evidence.

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Mafeki said:

Quote:

1. “Shall issue” laws have no significant effect on the overall homicide rate

We analyzed the effect on homicide of changes in state-level gun carrying laws using pooled cross-sectional time-series data for 50 states from 1979-1998.  There was no statistically significant association between changes in concealed carry laws and state homicide rates.  The finding was consistent across a variety of models.

Hepburn, Lisa; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David.  The effect of nondiscretionary concealed weapon carrying laws on homicide.  Journal of Trauma. 2004; 56:676-681.

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Mafeki said:

Prisoner#1 said:

maybe you could list those 26 high income nations

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Turns out you need a subscription.

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