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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
Sober Surfer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 11,519
Loc: North Carolina
welfare/poverty
    #1623745 - 06/10/03 03:33 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

alot of people on this board seem to think that anyone receiving welfare or other government aid must be lazy and stupid. "they are lazy" "they didn't plan for the future" etc etc. When i see people say stuff like that i think about how very sad it is that some people generalize such a big issue and try to just ignore it.

Poverty has exsisted since the dawn of human civilization even in the most prosperous cultures. Historically, the poor have always outnumbered the wealthy and today in the USA the percentage of poor people to rich people is still basically the same as it might have been 200 years ago. Why is that? this is the "greatest country on earth" shouldnt everyone be doing great?

I'd say the reason why is because it's almost impossible for everyone to graduate from college and find a good job. Alot of people that graduated this year can't even find a good job, or a job that requires the degree they just spent four years getting. I wonder what it would be like if every 22 year old in the country had just graduated from college and they were all looking for good entry level jobs to work at. Alot of them would probably be shit out of luck. It's the same thing for college. If anyone actually believes that every 17 year old in the country could be accepted into a 4 year school this year, please stand up. I say there simply isnt enough room for everyone.

It's just not possible to do these things. This country isn't set up for everyone to prosper and be rich. There arent enough schools and there arent enough jobs. Welfare is just one way that the government is trying to some how balance out this social situation that has exsisted for 3000 years. I see alot of the conservatives on the board who talk like welfare is something new which isnt true because even the most barbaric of the past civilizations had their own forms of welfare(giving away food and whatnot) even they realized that it was nessisary.

It seems like most conservatives would like to totally do away with all programs that make an effort to help the poor. Why? because you arent getting anything out of it? It seems to be all based on selfishness to me. conservatives don't seem to want to deal with poverty because it doesnt affect them. After all it's much easier to call poor people stupid and lazy, act like our society has nothing to do with their situation, and then feel ok about ignoring the issue completly. You conservatives don't get anything out of welfare so you don't want it to exsist. So if our own citizens starve or freeze it's ok..because they are stupid and lazy and it's their own fault. Meanwhile every conservative on the board is pro-war...it boggles my mind how some people would rather spend billions of dollars in tax money to "liberate" a nation that has nothing to do with them, and at the same time bitch about social programs that help their own people live.

welfare does need some reforming, but it shouldnt be trashed either.
So i say until there are enough colleges and jobs for everyone to prosper, shut the fuck up. Until you think of a better solution, shut the fuck up. You bitch about taxes like it's gonna cause you to have to start eating out of a dumpster or something while people are going hungry and sleeping on the streets...so shut the fuck up.


--------------------
Religion is for people who are afraid of going to Hell; spirituality is for those who have been there.


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Offlinemike
iHugTrees

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 171
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #1623809 - 06/10/03 04:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i know how i feel when i see people eating out of dumpsters, and sleeping in door ways.

fuck war.


--------------------
Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy.
-Albert Einstein


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Anonymous

Re: welfare/poverty [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #1623866 - 06/10/03 04:22 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i don't think that all recipients of social programs are lazy, stupid, or bad at planning.

i have no problem with them getting a little help. i do have a problem with money being taken by force from other people to pay for it though.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,720
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #1623926 - 06/10/03 04:43 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Earn your own way or starve.

That's what charities are for.

I'm not against helping others and I do so. I just don't feel it's the place of the government to do so. In fact the 10th ammendment prohibits them from doing so.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: welfare/poverty [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #1623974 - 06/10/03 05:01 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You fail to realize that we are just animals, and like all other species, some of our own will/have to die untimely deaths.
Quote:

So i say until there are enough colleges and jobs for everyone to prosper, shut the fuck up.


That's the problem, we don't have the resources, which is exactly why my above point has to happen. It is just a way of life.

Where do you draw the line between compassion and survivial of the fittest?


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineSolo
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Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 257
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Re: welfare/poverty [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #1624036 - 06/10/03 05:25 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

alot of people on this board seem to think that anyone receiving welfare or other government aid must be lazy and stupid. "they are lazy" "they didn't plan for the future" etc etc. When i see people say stuff like that i think about how very sad it is that some people generalize such a big issue and try to just ignore it.




I agree.





Poverty has exsisted since the dawn of human civilization even in the most prosperous cultures. Historically, the poor have always outnumbered the wealthy and today in the USA the percentage of poor people to rich people is still basically the same as it might have been 200 years ago. Why is that? this is the "greatest country on earth" shouldnt everyone be doing great?

I'd say the reason why is because it's almost impossible for everyone to graduate from college and find a good job. Alot of people that graduated this year can't even find a good job, or a job that requires the degree they just spent four years getting. I wonder what it would be like if every 22 year old in the country had just graduated from college and they were all looking for good entry level jobs to work at. Alot of them would probably be shit out of luck. It's the same thing for college. If anyone actually believes that every 17 year old in the country could be accepted into a 4 year school this year, please stand up. I say there simply isnt enough room for everyone.




Fifty years ago guys could work bundling groceries and support a family, they were poor but could survive. Today someone can not even support themselves doing a job like this. This is due to inflation. Inflation is a hidden tax.






It's just not possible to do these things. This country isn't set up for everyone to prosper and be rich. There arent enough schools and there arent enough jobs. Welfare is just one way that the government is trying to some how balance out this social situation that has exsisted for 3000 years.




I don't believe it is schools and available jobs, but I agree. Still, people collecting welfare and similar handouts could participate in such a way as to make thier and societys situation as a whole.






I see alot of the conservatives on the board who talk like welfare is something new which isnt true because even the most barbaric of the past civilizations had their own forms of welfare(giving away food and whatnot) even they realized that it was nessisary.




I am a libertarian, not a conservative. A couple hundred years ago people were expected to chop wood if they wanted a free meal. Now they are just expected to show up. Complaining about the food is acceptable.





It seems like most conservatives would like to totally do away with all programs that make an effort to help the poor. Why? because you arent getting anything out of it? It seems to be all based on selfishness to me. conservatives don't seem to want to deal with poverty because it doesnt affect them. After all it's much easier to call poor people stupid and lazy, act like our society has nothing to do with their situation, and then feel ok about ignoring the issue completly. You conservatives don't get anything out of welfare so you don't want it to exsist. So if our own citizens starve or freeze it's ok..because they are stupid and lazy and it's their own fault. Meanwhile every conservative on the board is pro-war...it boggles my mind how some people would rather spend billions of dollars in tax money to "liberate" a nation that has nothing to do with them, and at the same time bitch about social programs that help their own people live.




I am neighter conservative or pro-war. I am against welfare type programs as they currently exist because they are wasteful and contribute to the problem.





welfare does need some reforming, but it shouldnt be trashed either.




It needs a lot of reforming. People should not be given something for nothing. It is not in their best interests. They become entitled, less capable of participating in rehabilitation, etc. Just about everybody that is being 'helped' by these programs could be helping others as well, even if it were very simple tasks.





So i say until there are enough colleges and jobs for everyone to prosper, shut the fuck up.




I can see your angry. So are the people you are complaining about. More colleges and jobs is not the answer. Fifty years ago a high school diploma was worth what a college diploma is worth today. In another fifty years it will be a masters degree. As you pointed out there will always be rich and poor. However, I'm willing to bet that the people you are complaining about are NOT rich. They are hard WORKING people who do not believe they are being treated fairly.





Until you think of a better solution, shut the fuck up..




Requring people to be productive for what they currently get for free would be a good thing. Handouts do NOT help them.





You bitch about taxes like it's gonna cause you to have to start eating out of a dumpster or something while people are going hungry and sleeping on the streets...so shut the fuck up.




People who eat out of dumsters or sleep on the street do so because they are mentally ill and not going along with the free medical treatment available to them, or people who simply do not know where to access free food and free places to sleep. Or they don't like the rules at shelters and would rather be 'free' and drink and hang out on the streets without conforming to any structure. People can live in shelters around here for their entire lives without lifting a finger to help themselves. Yes, I could direct you where to go and you could get in line and get a free bed every night, free meals, free clothes, free medical care, free toiletries, showers, toilets, and never lift a finger to help yourslef for the rest of your life. No thank you is required. Do you think you would be better off if you did this? Neither do I. I have been homeless myslef and can tell you the system does not help people it is set up to serve. The bar should be raised.


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OfflineSev
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 1,426
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Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: Solo]
    #1624526 - 06/10/03 09:25 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think that a lot of the conservatives -- and probably a lot of the liberals -- on this board don't really know what the experience of being on any kind of public assitance, but especially welfare and medicaid, is like. I've seen enough people go through the systems to know what it's like.

First off, they seem to deliberately make it hard to apply for these things. You need to not have a job or any obligations of any kind just to go through the hoops. For example, someone I know, who was already receiving medicare, had an injury that forced her off her job for a couple of months -- so she went and applied for welfare so that she could pay her rent for those couple of months. Since she was already in the system, she shouldn't've needed a lot more paperwork, but they wanted her birth certificate. She found out it'd cost her $35 she didn't have for a copy of that, so she had to go back, and then someone said that she could go and get a copy from teh Social Security people for free. So she went and got a paper -- not even a copy, just a paper -- saying, basically, that she had been born. That took about four days, and going back and forth between two offices 30 miles apart. Thank god she had a car -- I know people who've had to go through this crap on public transportation.

Secondly, it often takes a while for benefits to kick in. Another person I know owned his own home, etc, etc ... but when he got really fucked up and put on Disability, it took a year or two for them to come through and start paying him. When they did, he got about 20 grand in back payments, but he still lost his house and most of his posessions because he didn't have anyreal savings -- at least, none that could get him through a year of no income.

Thirdly, they make it hard to get off of some of these programs. I know people who've deliberately kept their income low just so that they could stay on Medicare -- because, frankly, you've either got to be upper middle class, or poor, to have decent medical care without bankrupting yourself in this country, especially if you have a chronic health problem. Similarly, if you make too much money, medicaid and welfare get cut off. This is reasonable, right? unfortunately, the amount of money that you have to make to get cut off is <i>still</i> below the poverty level in most parts of the country.

Fourth, some of their conditions contribute to the problem. For example, to get on welfare or medicaid, you can't have more than, I thikn, about $3,000 in assets. Now, this sounds kind of reasonable, until you realise that 'assets' includes your car, your house, etc. This means that, if you have serious financial difficulties, and you've got a new car, or a house of any kind that you own, you're utterly fucked. It's impossible to get to work in a lot of the country without a car, and renting a house, as opposed to living in one, is, by definition, much more expensive. (In Puerto Rico, ironically, you can own a house and be on welfare ... which is one of the reasons that I freaking hate Puerto Rico, and think we ought to kick it aside or make it become a state.)

The whole system needs a massive reworking, in my opinion, to make it fair, and to remove the abuses. I think that people receiving welfare -ought- to be put to work if they don't have a job -- kinda like the public works projects Roosevelt did -- but I also think that people need to be able to earn a living wage. (The minimum living wage in the part of the country I live in -- that is, defined as a wage that you can live on, and be out of poverty -- is something like $13 an hour. The average wage, however, is lower than this.) It's a complicated problem, and nothing that can be solved by a magic bullet -- everything's interlinked. But it's still better than nothing, or having to depend on charities.

*shrugs* The whole thing makes me frustrated. Damned if you do, damned if you don't (well, at least, if you have any compassion for your fellow human beings, or fear that some day you might be in their position. There but for the grace of God and all.)


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #1625391 - 06/11/03 01:54 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Good post Johnny. This article is worth reposting:

http://www.nathannewman.org/other/howwelfarehelpsus.html

HOW WELFARE HELPS "THE REST OF US"
-- Nathan Newman, newman@socrates.berkeley.edu

The current debate on welfare is stale, tired and, ultimately,
missing the economic point.

Let's be clear what welfare is and is not. Welfare is not charity.
Welfare is a system of payments made to the poor not to take any job if
its pay is so low that it underbids wages for those who have jobs. When
linked to other policies like the minimum wage, welfare is (and should be
seen as) an economic tool by society to keep wages high.

Progressives need to stop appealing just to the compassion of the
public in defending welfare and start playing on their self-interest. The
economic reality is that decent wages for "the rest of us" depend on
having a decent welfare system. Without that welfare system, all wages go
down under a flood of workers desperate to take jobs at any wage in order
to keep their families from starving.

Conservatives try to argue that even if kicking people off welfare
causes some erosion in wages, it's cheaper than increasing the taxes
needed to pay people on welfare. The obvious response is to point out how
small a portion of the federal budget is taken up by programs like AFDC
and other payments to the non-working poor. Out of a $1.6 trillion
federal budget, only $19 billion goes to AFDC, just over 1% of every
federal dollar spent.

But that's a defensive argument and progressives have to get off the
defense and on the offense. We have to sketch exactly how supporting the
welfare system, even expanding it, can be used to reverse the wage erosion
workers have faced in the last two decades.

Let's start with the minimum wage. Conservatives use the fear of
unemployment to oppose it. In the recent debate on the minimum wage,
opponents of raising the minimum wage from $4.25 to $5.15 per hour have
argued that employers would lay off hundreds of thousands of workers
(roughly 1-2% of minimum wage workers in their estimates) if forced to
raise wages for the rest. Now, a number of solid economic studies, most
recently by economists David Card and Alan Krueger, have shown that modest
raises in the minimum wage actually have no effect on employment.

But, for the sake of argument, let's ignore those economic studies
and target our economic program at those who might buy conservative
arguments that 1-2% of minimum wage jobs will be lost if the minimum wage
is raised. Even with that assumption, if we create a strong welfare
system, everyone, including the taxpayer, gains from the increase in the
minimum wage. Follow the math on this and you'll have the strongest
argument in countering conservatives attacks on both welfare and the
minimum wage.

Buying the conservatives' assumptions of 2% unemployment, it means
that for every 100 minimum wage workers initially making $4.25 per hour,
we will end up with 98 workers making the new minimum wage of $5.15 per
hour and 2 workers unemployed.

Breaking that down by hour, week and year, for every 100 workers
who initially make $4.25 per hour ($170 per 40-hr week, $8840 per year),
the total combined wages of all 98 workers who stay employed initially
equals: $866,320 per year ($8840 per year x 98 workers).

After the raise in the minimum wage to $5.15 per hour ($206 per
week, $10,712 per year), total wages will increase to $1,049,776 per year
($10,712 per year x 98 workers). Those 98 workers will see an individual
gain of $1872 per year in wages and an com bined gain of $165,776 in
wages.

If the two newly unemployed people are supported with welfare
payments equal to their previous yearly wage of $8840 (much more generous
than present welfare systems), the total cost will be $17,680--far less
than the $165,776 net gain in wages for the other 98 workers. In fact,
that $17,680 is far less than what the federal government would receive in
increased income and payroll taxes on those increased wages.

So even using the conservatives' own estimates of job loss, the
minimum wage with a strong welfare system can be used to increase wages
while protecting the incomes of those left unemployed.

To translate this into the slightly messier real numbers of the
overall US economy, there are 12.3 million workers who make less than the
proposed new minimum wage of $5.15 per hour. They make an average of
$4.67 per hour, so if 98% of those workers have their wages increased to
the new minimum wage, the aggregate increase in wages will be $12 billion
yearly. This is far more than any welfare costs that might be needed for
income and training funds if any workers are left unemployed.

These numbers have all assumed the rather miserly increase in the
minimum wage proposed by Clinton. If instead of $5.15 per hour, we
increased the minimum wage another dollar to $6.15 per hour (about the
inflation-adjusted level back in 1969), we can see even more dramatic
effects.

There are 20.8 million Americans making less than $6.15 per hour. If
all of these workers (with an average wage of $5.10 per hour) had their
wages increased to a $6.15 per hour minimum wage, the net increase in
wages would be $45.6 billion annually. Even if we assumed a worst-case
assumption of 10% of those workers were left unemployed, this would still
leave a potential $40 billion for welfare and retraining funds--an amount
DOUBLE the entire present AFDC budget.

In fact, all these numbers understate the overall gains in wages,
since it ignores the effect of the minimum wage on higher wage workers.
But the reality is that the mass of workers making a bit more than any new
minimum wage are able to demand a wage increase to maintain a "spread"
between them and less skilled workers now making what they used to make.

So where are these increased wages coming from? Some of it comes
from increased growth due to higher consumer demand, some from increased
costs passed onto consumers, but in the end, in highly competitive markets
employing minimum wage workers, the largest chunk come out of the profits
and executive compensation of corporate stockholders. And there's the
reason why both welfare payments and the minimum wage are opposed so
vociferously by corporations and their legislative allies.

It's no coincidence that conservatives support both eliminating
welfare payments and lowering the minimum wage. Moving people from
welfare into the workplace drives down wages, and the last thing
conservatives (supported massively by low-wage employers) want is to have
the government prevent wages from falling. And by keeping welfare payments
low or non-existent, they can create fear of unemployment from raising the
minimum wage or supporting other policies to raise wages.

Of course, there are ways to improve welfare, including providing
work instead of income payments, but that work has to be at a living wage
that, instead of driving down wages, helps to bolster wages in society
while delivering services that the market fails to provide.

Look at the debate over Wisconsin's proposed welfare plan, a plan to
end welfare for everyone in the state and replace it with work
requirements. Where is the headline-grabbing debate over the fact that
this flood of new additions to the workforce will be making less than
minimum wage and even replacing workers who previously made much higher
wages?

The enthusiasm for welfare "reform" would chill significantly if
people recognized that shredding the safety net also meant shredding their
own wages. If the Wisconsin-style plan was extended nationally, the
effects would trash wages across the coun try. Even as welfare payments
have declined in the last two decades, average hourly wages have dropped
by over 10% and wages for less-skilled job have fallen even more. Imagine
all four million plus adult recipients of AFDC being dumped in the labor
market tomorrow on top of present unemployment, or even gradually over a
year or two.

The key thing for progressives to argue is that unless the policy
is to spend MORE to provide real jobs for all, it's cheaper for working
families to pay people not to work than to force them to work at wages
that drive down pay for all of us.



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: welfare/poverty [Re: Skikid16]
    #1625792 - 06/11/03 08:07 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

That's the problem, we don't have the resources, which is exactly why my above point has to happen. It is just a way of life.

Where do you draw the line between compassion and survivial of the fittest?




We have the resources my friend for everyone on the face of the planet to live far, far above the poverty line.

Dont buy the lie.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,720
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: GazzBut]
    #1626640 - 06/11/03 05:01 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

We have the resources my friend for everyone on the face of the planet to live far, far above the poverty line.



Then let them earn their way.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1626677 - 06/11/03 05:23 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If only things were that simple. Letting them earn their own way means business will pay them just above starvation level. In turn our wages will fall through the floor.

There really is no getting round it.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: welfare/poverty [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1628089 - 06/12/03 05:35 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Then let them earn their way.




Thats the point, although the resources are there for everyone to live well, selfishness and greed dictates that certain mindsets will horde as much of the resources as they can, more than they could ever actually use, to satisfy the dictates of their inflated egos.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,720
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: GazzBut]
    #1628094 - 06/12/03 05:41 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Actually in most cases, it's drive and ambition, plus desire to improve ones lot in life, which accounts for the difference.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1628230 - 06/12/03 08:32 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry luv, I'm sure you think you're "special" with all your "drive and ambition" but let me assure you if you had happened to be born in a refugee camp in Ethiopia you would be laid in the dust starving.



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Posts: 4,733
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Re: welfare/poverty [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1629095 - 06/12/03 04:30 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Actually in most cases, it's drive and ambition, plus desire to improve ones lot in life, which accounts for the difference.




A consequence of this attitude means people are willing to improve their lot in life at the expense of others. You can pretend the lifestyles we lead dont have negative consequences on millions of people around the world while we the minority enjoy our spoilt ways but you can only pretend.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,720
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: GazzBut]
    #1629101 - 06/12/03 04:38 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

A consequence of this attitude means people are willing to improve their lot in life at the expense of others.



I'm fine with that.


Quote:

You can pretend the lifestyles we lead dont have negative consequences on millions of people around the world while we the minority enjoy our spoilt ways but you can only pretend.



I'm pretending nothing. Most bring their owm misery upon themselves.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,720
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: Xlea321]
    #1629102 - 06/12/03 04:40 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sorry luv, I'm sure you think you're "special" with all your "drive and ambition" but let me assure you if you had happened to be born in a refugee camp in Ethiopia you would be laid in the dust starving.



Alpo, once again you amaze me with your ability to "know" all and "see" all.

Once again you amaze me with your inability to recognize that not all humans are incompetent.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1629295 - 06/12/03 06:04 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Forget covering up your intellectual inadequacy with tiresome insults for once in your life and explain why you think being one of the starving in Africa means you are "incompetent".

Try not to respond with something like "Alpo, I don't like you. I really don't like you. Oh how I don't like you. Yes, I really don't like you..(repeat ad infinitum till we all fall asleep..)"


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: Xlea321]
    #1629299 - 06/12/03 06:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)


Lasy starving africans,...just too lasy and unmotivated...dumb too! :smirk:

Nothin stoppin em from swimmin over here and gettin rich :mad:  Or walking to europ and getting a better job...


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlinegrib
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: welfare/poverty [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #1629845 - 06/12/03 09:59 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Not everyone can be Warren Buffet... not everyone can be Johnny at the drive through window of McD's. Those are facts of life.

Not every one was born to be well off. Some simply do not have what it takes to live the 'American (cough, choke, etc., etc., etc.) Dream'.

If you feel strongly about helping those who are less fortunate, donate to a charity. There are many orgs who do wonderful work.

I don't think it's neither wise nor fair for governments to take from one individual and give to another. That is simply a robbery of choice...


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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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