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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error * 1
    #15906806 -

Only one thing is true: You.

All else is mind games and dogma.

Scientific rigour and critical thinking is the ultimate waste of time.

:heartpump:


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: circastes]
    #15906827 -

What is the least ultimate waste of time?

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: DieCommie]
    #15906879 -

You.

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: Hobozen]
    #15907210 -

:congrats:


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: circastes]
    #15910914 -

circastes said:
Only one thing is true: You.

All else is mind games and dogma.

Scientific rigour and critical thinking is the ultimate waste of time.

:heartpump:


People pursue science and critical thinking because they enjoy it. Why the hell is that a waste of time?

Your posting is a waste of time.

Leaving your house is a waste of time.

Eating good tasting food is a waste of time.

I assume you don't believe all of those things because you enjoy them. All actions are performed for gratification, whether it be in the moment or in the future.

And what are you besides mind games and dogma? Without those things you  wouldn't be capable of experience.


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Live your Life! :heart:

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: 4896744]
    #15911157 -

Anything is  waste of time, because nothing is truly "important". The universe will continue to exist with or without us. Does that make science irrelevant or a foolish pursuit? Would we be better off living in blissful ignorance, not even trying to make it into outer space and beyond? Why should we not get familiar with all the details of this beautiful planet, if we are certainly going to be living here for quite some time.


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Am I really all the things that are outside of me?

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: lsderp]
    #15911626 -

But if we are going to get somewhere and where we truly want to be we should discard science and reason as tools for getting us there.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: circastes]
    #15911714 -

circastes said:
But if we are going to get somewhere and where we truly want to be we should discard science and reason as tools for getting us there.


How about you can stay on this planet with all the religious wackos, and me and the other people who enjoy reason and science can fly away to some other planet?

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: Sleepwalker] * 1
    #15912040 -

And thus the planet of Vulcan was born.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: circastes]
    #15912340 -

When you say 'Only one thing is true: you'

What 'you' are you referring to?

If you are referring to yourself, that is Solipsism, very dangerous and likely to give you some kind of messianic complex.

If you are referring to the self which resides in each of us, then that negates your statement.

Unless you are trying to say that the collective self is all that is true, but then, if that is the case and all else is is the mind, then surely the mind and it's products are an extension of the self?

You imply that science is 'sticking to any view or framework'.. in fact it is the opposite, it is the continual abandonment of anything which reveals itself as false in favour of a new understanding.

That said, lets assume all that is true is the self and mind, the rest of everything is product of the mind. From this point of view, science is simply the process of understanding the 'mental trickery' that manifests as the world around us.


So I can't be too sure what you are even trying to say with this post. Perhaps some kind of explanation wouldn't go amiss.


--------------------
Om Bhur Bhuvah Svaha
Tat Savitur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi
Dhiyo Yo Nah Prachodayat

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: Desert Elf]
    #15912577 -

Kony 2012



--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: circastes]
    #15912712 -

circastes said:
But if we are going to get somewhere and where we truly want to be we should discard science and reason as tools for getting us there.



Who's "we" white man?  I'd love to be there to hear your whining once you got what you were after. :lol:  It may well be that primitive man had it and quickly let go of it for something else when it presented itself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: circastes]
    #15912802 -

sticking to a view is ridiculous, but refining an open ended framework is valuable work.

it may even be the purpose of philosophy.

if you stick in just a small part of a framework then you are stuck - or it may be a closed frame, or the framework may be broken.

a good resilient framework makes a lot of sense.
for example:

* the scientific method - provides an excellent framework for expanding a dependable knowledge base.

* the building code provides a reliable framework for designing and building houses.

* Roberts rules of order provide a way of getting through board meetings.

these frameworks are open-ended, and although formal and rigorous, they are not absolute about anything.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: redgreenvines]
    #15912868 -

i see as controlled folly
you use the world to get through the experience of life
without being attached to it


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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: Desert Elf]
    #15917003 -

Desert Elf said:
When you say 'Only one thing is true: you'

What 'you' are you referring to?

If you are referring to yourself, that is Solipsism, very dangerous and likely to give you some kind of messianic complex.

If you are referring to the self which resides in each of us, then that negates your statement.

Unless you are trying to say that the collective self is all that is true, but then, if that is the case and all else is is the mind, then surely the mind and it's products are an extension of the self?

You imply that science is 'sticking to any view or framework'.. in fact it is the opposite, it is the continual abandonment of anything which reveals itself as false in favour of a new understanding.

That said, lets assume all that is true is the self and mind, the rest of everything is product of the mind. From this point of view, science is simply the process of understanding the 'mental trickery' that manifests as the world around us.


So I can't be too sure what you are even trying to say with this post. Perhaps some kind of explanation wouldn't go amiss.


Not solipsism.

All selves are one self, all consciousness is one consciousness, notice there's no plural for consciousness...

What I mean is, thinking critically and being an 'intellectual' won't get you 'there'.

Living a good life, for example, is a far better way to enlightenment or discovery or happiness.

The truth shines alone, it does not need us.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: Icelander]
    #15917014 -

Icelander said:
circastes said:
But if we are going to get somewhere and where we truly want to be we should discard science and reason as tools for getting us there.



Who's "we" white man?  I'd love to be there to hear your whining once you got what you were after. :lol:  It may well be that primitive man had it and quickly let go of it for something else when it presented itself.


Crazy old man talk.  :oldman2:


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: circastes]
    #15918544 -

What's your point? :standingby:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: Icelander]
    #15918621 -



--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: circastes] * 2
    #15918904 -

circastes said:
But if we are going to get somewhere and where we truly want to be we should discard science and reason as tools for getting us there.


Would you have the heart to tell that to cancer patients, amputees, quadriplegics, the mentally ill, and all of the other groups who's lives Science has the potential to transform?

It's easy to preach rhetoric such as this when you're healthy, not so much when you've integrated numerous lifestyle changes, changed your way of being and thinking entirely, and still suffer from chronic health issues.

Furthermore, what about the majority of the world, you know, those people without access to education, clean water, decent shelter, clothes, food, shoes...I suppose we should just drop the development of technologies which provide these things efficiently and cheaply because it's "not the way to happiness and enlightenment"?

If the only thing that is true is the mind, then Science and technology is just as much part of our mind as grey matter, and it's quite often more effective at solving real problems with the world than people simply being in good spirits and being "happy".  Happiness doesn't cure all of the ills and scarcities of the world by itself, unfortunately.

Unless, of course, you are suggesting that everyone and everything, including all of the problems with the world, are complete illusion and should be disregarded.  I agree with this on some level, but regardless of how I see it or experience it, people and their suffering remain, and should not be disregarded, and Science is seemingly the most effective tool to address much of peoples' suffering, currently.

What do you mean by "good life"?  Is there some set of absolute morals you are referring so as to be able to judge a life as good or bad?  If we are all the same and all one, then someone's life is neither good nor bad, it just is, correct?  What basis are we to consider what makes a "good life" other than a critical approach?

Edited by Pacmanpth (03/08/12 11:36 AM)

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Re: Sticking to any view or framework of ideas guarantees error [Re: Pacmanpth]
    #15920631 -

i largely agree with what your saying but science is bound up with neo-liberal capatalism which imo has already and is going to cause serious problems, particularly with regards to biomedical science and the incorperation of machines into flesh.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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