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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Debunking the Arguments of PseudoSkeptics and Paranormal Debunkers
    #15765497 -

Just stumbled across this beauty of a website, and an interesting distinction they put forth within it:

Quote:
Defining the PseudoSkeptic vs. the True Skeptic: Behaviors and Tactics

According to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, a skeptic is:

"One who is yet undecided as to what is true; one who is looking or inquiring for what is true; an inquirer after facts or reasons."

Pyrrho, the founder of "Skepticism", intended for it to be about open inquiry and suspension of judgment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeptic
β€œIn classical philosophy, skepticism refers to the teachings and the traits of the 'Skeptikoi', a school of philosophers of whom it was said that they 'asserted nothing but only opined.' (Liddell and Scott) In this sense, philosophical skepticism, or Pyrrhonism, is the philosophical position that one should suspend judgment in investigations.[1]”

But rather than inquiring, or asking questions to try to understand something, they seek to debunk, discredit and ridicule anything that doesn't fit into their belief system.  And rather than suspending judgment, they make accusations of fraud and delusion of all paranormal claimants.  They are PROSECUTORS, not investigators.  Hence, we call them pseudoskeptics (a term coined by the late Marcello Truzzi) for their actions and behaviors are the complete antithesis of what skepticism truly means.



http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Contents.htm

So I ask you: are the skeptics in this forum true skeptics, or merely pseudo-skeptics?  I'm also curious whether OC has seen this website, and has any rebuttals for the arguments presented within.  :strokebeard:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Debunking the Arguments of PseudoSkeptics and Paranormal Debunkers [Re: deCypher]
    #15765566 -

I'm checking it out now.

It's hard to have balance, dogma and skepticism lag science to new ideas with truth, but if you push your self to far from them you can find yourself equally in trouble

For argument 8# though, I don't know. 

Why can't the scientifically demonstrate it?  Why can't some one just do some very careful experiments on it and prove whether there is psychic ability or not?


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People who have helped me: VicariousGreg , Garfelt , occollegeboi , psilocybinjunkie , PrimalSoup

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Re: Debunking the Arguments of PseudoSkeptics and Paranormal Debunkers [Re: deCypher]
    #15765573 -

Reads just like the typical defenses in the conspiracy and mystery forums to me.  Is there any particular one that you think is right on?

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Re: Debunking the Arguments of PseudoSkeptics and Paranormal Debunkers [Re: tempusvita]
    #15765612 -

tempusvita said:
For argument 8# though, I don't know. 

Why can't the scientifically demonstrate it?  Why can't some one just do some very careful experiments on it and prove whether there is psychic ability or not?



According to the article, numerous scientific experiments have demonstrated it.  Of course, the debunker's response to this would be that these experiments were fundamentally flawed and/or fudged their data to produce a more favorable conclusion.

DieCommie said:
Reads just like the typical defenses in the conspiracy and mystery forums to me.  Is there any particular one that you think is right on?



Well, I thought the counter to argument #30 (The James Randi Million Dollar Psychic Challenge argument) was particularly interesting.  Certainly fails to paint Randi in a favorable light.  :lol:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Debunking the Arguments of PseudoSkeptics and Paranormal Debunkers [Re: deCypher]
    #15765634 -

So I ask you: are the skeptics in this forum true skeptics, or merely pseudo-skeptics?

I'm sure there is some of both going on and probably from the same people depending on the day and their mood. I know that's true for me.  Ultimately however I can be swayed by something to change my mind.  The evidence being that I've done it several times throughout my life.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Debunking the Arguments of PseudoSkeptics and Paranormal Debunkers [Re: Icelander]
    #15765682 -

Quote:
According to the article, numerous scientific experiments have demonstrated it.  Of course, the debunker's response to this would be that these experiments were fundamentally flawed and/or fudged their data to produce a more favorable conclusion.



But all the experiments they conducted were sloppy, I have read through them all when I was trying to figure out why they weren't established fact.  The controls were sloppy, or the experiments were conducted in a diligent manner.

I'm talking a real hard core experiment, every time there is one of those its been proved bunk :/

For instance, take the first experiments they mentioned, Rhine's.  They have NEVER been duplicated and a lot of the participates were caught cheating.


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People who have helped me: VicariousGreg , Garfelt , occollegeboi , psilocybinjunkie , PrimalSoup

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Re: Debunking the Arguments of PseudoSkeptics and Paranormal Debunkers [Re: deCypher]
    #15765710 -

Randi rebuttal

I am not going to address point by point as they are almost all ad hominems and have little to do with the challenge. What all the idiots fail to grok is that the parapsychologist designs the test and then falls on his/her own sword.

And I guess Randi had a hand in non-Randi live TV shows wherein psychics failed miserably. And in all scientific tests worldwide. And he controls the other few dozen skeptic challenges.

But lets go to our very own Swami Challenges. There were some 30 odd challenges based exactly on the claimants' alleged super power. Out of 30 Challenges only one was taken by Shroomism. He failed and reneged on the bet. How close-minded is it to offer $10,000 for what another person claims? If I told you I could put a ball within a 5" X 5" square from 30 foot away, I doubt that anyone would challenge me.

Skeptics may appear close-minded because that have already investigated numerous similar claims and understand the psychological mechanism behind the failings: self-delusion, confirmation bias, back-fitting and so on.

Now look on the other side. Parapsychologists claim that no real psychic would demonstrate their powers for money because to do so would, the powers would leave them. Yet they just made this shit up. Then they point to famous psychics or chi masters or... who charge money.

Did you know that I am invisible when no one is looking? True fact.


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (02/05/12 07:29 PM)

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Re: Debunking the Arguments of PseudoSkeptics and Paranormal Debunkers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15765734 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Randi rebuttal

I am not going to address point by point as there are almost all ad hominems and have little to do with the challenge. What all the idiots fail to grok is that the parapsychologist designs the test and then falls on his/her own sword.

And I guess Randi had a hand in non-Randi live TV shows wherein psychics failed miserably. And in all scientific tests worldwide. And he controls the other few dozen skeptic challenges.

But lets go to our very own Swami Challenges. There wee some 30 odd challenges based exactly on the claimants alleged super power. Out of 30 Challenges only one was taken by Shroomism. He failed and reneged on the bet. How close-minded is it to offer $10,000 for what another person claims? If I told you I could put a ball within a 5" X 5" square from 30 foot away, I doubt that anyone would challenge me.

Skeptics may appear close-minded because that have already investigated numerous similar claims and understand the psychological mechanism behind the failings: self-delusion, confirmation bias, back-fitting and so on.

Now look on the other side. Parapsychologists claim that no real psychic would demonstrate their powers for money because to do so would, the powers would leave them. Yet they just made this shit up. Then they point to famous psychics or chi masters or... who charge money.

Did you know that I am invisible when no one is looking? True fact.



+rating


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People who have helped me: VicariousGreg , Garfelt , occollegeboi , psilocybinjunkie , PrimalSoup

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Re: Debunking the Arguments of PseudoSkeptics and Paranormal Debunkers [Re: tempusvita]
    #15766215 -

So often is unknown phenomena written of as a Placebo Effect, as if that is some sort of explanation.

Interesting distinction cypher, thanks for sharing.

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