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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: Diploid]
    #4539922 -

This is a very interesting debate. As a person who has experienced out of body experiences, astral projection, some psychic phenomenon, and some telepathy I can tell you a few things from my perspective and experience.

Point 1:
These experiences are VERY uncontrolled, I have never been able to conjure them at will, and in fact I have only experienced them at extreme states of being, i.e. on drugs, fevers, sensory deprivation etc.

Point 2:
If I were able to control my experiences directly I highly doubt I could tell you what some purely material object was hidden in a box, in fact purely material objects are of little consequence in these experiences. The only entities I have come in contact with during such experiences were other living consciousnesses.

Point 3:
On the subject of telepathy, in every instance in which I experienced it the other person was aware of it as well, and we were able to hold a verbal conversation about our mental conversation later, in the single instance in which I attempted to control telepathy, and made an actual effort to make contact with the other person, he verbally blurted out, "Quit trying to get in my head!" The nature of these telepathic conversations is very strange, it is not like verbal communication at all, and is more abstract and less symbolic.

Point 4:
If I had full control and access to these abilities, I doubt I would share my knowledge with any one that I had to linguistically communicate with. I would dare say that any one who would attempt to display their psychic powers to prove them scientifically(at least as science is currently manifested) would probably be shut out of elite societies that might exist in which members are keenly aware of their powers. I would also assume that if there is no one to communicate with, one's communicable ability would degrade massively with lack of use.
Given my present experience advanced psychic abilities only become present at moments in which ego is non existent. That being said, most who have keenly developed psychic abilities are probably very egoless, and it is the ego which makes one so deviantly obsessed with proving things. Besides, if every one knew that you could in some way read their mind, or influence their consciousness without their knowledge or direct consent, I feel that you're life wouldn't last very long.

Now to go beyond what I feel to be true and what I can claim as a direct result of personal experience, I want to extrapolate on knowledge I am aware of and say one more thing.

Every one engages in telepathy and other meta-physical phenomenon on a daily basis, we are however quite unaware that we are doing so do to the immense amount of mental noise in our daily lives. The more we keep ourselves busy with the day to day hustle and bustle of life, the less we achieve mental clarity and peace. I feel that there are people out there who either knowingly or unknowingly possess great psychic powers and do exercise them in order to achieve an effect on other people. On the other hand, maby I'm wrong, maby I'm delusional, maby my ego is playing massive tricks on me to make me feel special or powerful or good or something. Maybe. I can't say that my experience has made me happier, in fact I feel that it has at least temporarily pushed me to the other end of the emotional spectrum. If you wonder why, try telling your aunt, or your mom, or your friends, or a stranger on the street, or anybody that you've had outlandish paranormal experiences. Then after you hear his or her response, imagine how you might feel if you actually did have that experience.
That is all I have to say for now.


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www.youtube.com/morstories

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: MyOwnReality]
    #4539974 -

Oh I almost forgot there are a few studies in which evidence has been manifested to affirm the claims by many that paranormal activity is real. Here are a couple of links which provide basic information(note they are not studies of direct telepathy, or anything like that, but wrather demonstrate how emotions, and thought can affect physical substances and large groups of people):

http://www.whatthebleep.com/crystals/

http://www.istpp.org/crime_prevention/

BTW Any one who consideres him or herself into philosophy, or science, or psychology, or anything like that should definatly see the movie, "What the Bleep do We Know."
-MOR


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www.youtube.com/morstories

Edited by MyOwnReality (08/15/05 09:11 PM)

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: MyOwnReality]
    #4540273 -

I've experienced what was at the time undeniable telepathy on lsd. Of course, afterwards it's easier to have doubts, despite the other two people agreeing on telepathic moments (although we all forgot the exact 'experiences' we shared - at the time it was beyond obvious for all of us that it was in fact shared)

Now due to the nature of this though (being on lsd), I'm hesitant to say with certain 'I've experienced telepathy'. However, if I could see myself writing this back when it happened, I would porbably call myself a self-doubting fool :smile:

"Given my present experience advanced psychic abilities only become present at moments in which ego is non existent."

I know with tk, that the only way to effectively perform it is to enter a state of almost non-existance. 'Trying' to hinders it naturally, and so you have to meditate on spinning the object, then get to a point where there is no you and there is no object, yet equally - you are the object. Hard to explain, but you have to dissolve your sense of self in order to realize you are a small awareness of everything - the object included.

What I'd be interested in is if these clubs actually exist. I mean, naturally if they do they're secret or whatever, but hm... I've never even considered there being like an underground psi network haha... :smile:

And for everyone else, this post is fiction purely to entertain :smile:...


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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: MyOwnReality]
    #4540280 -

I would dare say that any one who would attempt to display their psychic powers to prove them scientifically(at least as science is currently manifested) would probably be shut out of elite societies that might exist...

There you have it Diploid; the "Elitist Argument" once again to which I referred just the other day. This is why great athletes and musicians will not demonstrate their talents. I only design software for my own use so as not to be shunned by other advanced engineers.  :rolleyes:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: Swami]
    #4541271 -

Um WTF are you talking about swami?
"great athletes and muscians will not demonstrate their talents"

Thats total bullshit, every one knows that great artists and athletes use their skills to make them money and make themselves famous. So I hope you are trying to mock me...

Psychic powers on the other hand... I feel that many do use them to further their earthly desires, but you can't just go around saying look at me I'm a psychic. Those that do are mocked and rideculed, and subject to relentless attempts by many to prove them wrong. As far as elitism goes, its not as complicated as all of that, well developed psychics could very well see themselves as a seperate species, but one which is heavily out numbered. It is in their best interest to keep themselves under wraps, not because they are better, but because they don't want to share the fate of Neanderthals.
-MOR

Oh and BTW I have doubts that any person who does not subscribe to a higher power can knowingly achieve and use his or her paranormal abilities. They seem to be things that go hand in hand.

I would very much like to experiment with large doses of LSD and possible telepathy. I've experienced otherworldy communication with the spirit of the mushroom(very linguistic), and even stranger experiences with the help of salvia(I was once a drug), but do to circumstance my access to LSD has been minimal. Most of my more extreme experiences have been associated with dissociatives, and I had one experience that was very Tibetan Book of the Deadesk during a dream. Interestingly enough my OBE's and NDE's were very much like buddhists describe, and many of these experiences were before I started learning about that sort of thing.


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www.youtube.com/morstories

Edited by MyOwnReality (08/16/05 03:53 AM)

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: Diploid]
    #4541421 -

Diploid said:
I'm sure you even believe in that: that there are no such monsters there.

Of course not. I was just joking. There are no Giant Spaghetti Monsters on Alpha Centauri.

Eveybody knows they live in Loch Ness.  :wink:



nono. I said I'm sure you believe that they don't exist. That is a baseless belief, because you have no information on their existence or lack of it


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: MyOwnReality]
    #4541455 -

So I hope you are trying to mock me...
That is not my style, but if you insist...

you can't just go around saying look at me I'm a psychic.
Yes I can. Read and learn: "Look at me! I'm a psychic."

Guess that disproved that statement pretty easily.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: MyOwnReality]
    #4541871 -

Quote:
Oh and BTW I have doubts that any person who does not subscribe to a higher power can knowingly achieve and use his or her paranormal abilities. They seem to be things that go hand in hand.



If you're interested in subscribing to A Higher Power, Publisher's Clearing House has some great deals! You will also automatically be entered into their 10 Million Dollar Sweepstakes!

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: Veritas]
    #4541982 -

The thing I am seeing at the moment, is that the posters who believe in paranormal events, for whatever reason, are the posters who are being open-minded. They are the ones constantly stating to the other side that there is always another posability. No one human will ever reach the end.

Elitism? I don't care for such a thing. Heirarchy, just another mental creation. Now thats the thing that is paranormal to me. On the grand picture, elitism doesn't exist except for in the minds of foolish humans.


Whoever thought that I am claiming to be all knowing is a very wrong. Does my depth of thought scare you? Well watch out because theres now a whole hoard of people thinking outside the box, in this one thread!

There always somebody better than myself/yourself. In this thread 'myownreality', whom I am off to rate 5 shrooms to now, has definately broadened my views. I don't ever lock my views, they are always open to change on the arrival of a better method.

I don't know all the posabilities, is that possible for any meer man?

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: Ego Death]
    #4542436 -

danoEoboy said:
The thing I am seeing at the moment, is that the posters who believe in paranormal events, for whatever reason, are the posters who are being open-minded.



The simple fact that someone is expressing an opinion does not mean they are, in any way, shape, or form "open-minded". Having an open mind is a state of being that transcends what side one speaks for or what one's opinions are, it is a process by which one investigates and intreprets reality.

Quote:
They are the ones constantly stating to the other side that there is always another posability.  No one human will ever reach the end.



Just because they constantly yell "There is another possibillity!" doesn't mean that there is an actual possibillity, or that said possibillity is plausible. If I was in a car and stuck in traffic, and I had a passenger that held up their index finger and proclaimed that There is another way!" and stated that we could simply flap our arms and fly to our intended destination instead, that isn't exactly a plausible possibillity, now is it? :smirk:

Quote:
Elitism?  I don't care for such a thing.  Heirarchy, just another mental creation.  Now thats the thing that is paranormal to me. 



:lol: Nice one! Hierachy in human convention and thought is something that can be demonstrated. :grin:

Quote:
Does my depth of thought scare you?  Well watch out because theres now a whole hoard of people thinking outside the box, in this one thread!



"Depth" of thought? What does a statement such as that imply and allude to? By the way, my sense of security is so violated by considering that there is an entire hoard of people "thinking outside of the box". :shocked:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4542628 -

Thanks for the compliments, and as for the the person who teased me about my abnormal use of the word 'subscribe' I shall further explain. I feel that one should avoid 'believing' in things, such as gods, or paranormal abilities or even simple things like existence (although I still catch myself slipping up and using the b word). To believe in something is to close one's mind to the possibilities of the other, and that is why I choose only to subscribe. My subscription to an ideology can easily be canceled, or changed, and it is in that way that I don't get too attached to ideas and philosophies. If the evidence changes then the subscription changes, and yes, for me personal experience is great evidence. However given an outsider's point of view I would be very skeptical of myself; meaning what credibility do I have? I'm just some 20 year college drop out with no money and way too much drug experience, if you do believe anything I say based simply on the fact that I said it you're even crazier than I am. On the other hand what did the contemporary societies of such legendary mystical and philosophical figures as Buddha, Jesus, and even great Socrates himself have to say about them? Food for thought.

On a different note, did any body even bother to read the research links I posted? I mean common, this is what you guys were looking for, perhaps not the holy grail of the thread (which would be a study proving telepathy or some more conventional ESP phen.) but those studies are at least a nice drinking chalice. Lets hear what people have to say about the 'evidence'!
-MOR


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www.youtube.com/morstories

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: MyOwnReality]
    #4543090 -

On a different note, did any body even bother to read the research links I posted?

Eye dios mio, again! :foreheadslap:

You TBs never fail to amaze me the way you swallow nonsense hook, line, and sinker without even bothering to do the most basic research on the things you base your beliefs on. And here you say that people should avoid "believing in things".

Let's start with the first link to my man, Dr. Emoto:

Emoto claims that when he tapes words to bottles of water and freezes them, the crystals that form are descriptive of the words used. For example, if the word 'love' is taped to a bottle, beautiful crystals form; if the words 'you make me sick' are used, ugly crystals form.

What Emoto fails to mention is that the person judging the character of the crystals knows the word used and looks for a crystal among the millions that form which matches the target word. This is a huge no-no in science because it's been shown again and again that, even against your best intentions, if you know what's supposed to be there, you will usually find it - it's called "biased data selection" and automatically invalidates any findings.

To demonstrate a real effect, the person characterizing the crystals would have to be blind to the word used so that he can make an honest and fair assessment of the aesthetics of the crystal without foreknowledge of the word that was used.

By the way, my buddy James Randi has said that if Emoto could perform this experiment double-blinded, it would qualify for the JREF Million Dollar Prize. Demonstrating his claims in a proper double-blind protocol, would show there really is a correlation between the words taped to a bottle and the crystals formed within. Not surprisingly, Emoto has never applied for the million dollar challenge.

Attempts to reproduce Emoto's work by others have now been made. Again not surprisingly, his results are unreproducible.

Additionally, Emoto has been invited to demonstrate his results by a few universities. He's declined all the invitations so far.

And finally, Emoto published his work without peer review (surprised?). This means that he can report anything at all, and since no other scientists were offered the opportunity to comment, his word goes uncontested.

It's relevant to note that even with all of the above, his book is selling well to people who buy new age mumbo jumbo that is demonstrably bullshit without applying the first bit of critical thought.

[sighs]

Alright, now your other link which covers more nonsense for the TBs to take home.

John Hagelin of the Maharishi University, described how in 1993, violent crime in Washington D.C. was reduced over a two month period, by 4000 people using Transcendental Meditation.

His results had many problems that rendered them invalid.

1. Hagelin?s report stated violent crime had been reduced by 18%, but he failed to state what it was reduced compared to. Just stating that something is %18 less is a meaningless statement. Less than last year? Less than in 1812? Less than in Zimbabwe?

2. How did he know what the crime rate would have been without the TM? Scientific tests require something called a control group. If you're testing a drug, you need some rats that get the drug, and some that don't. Both groups eat the same food, drink the same water, live in the same place. Only in this way can you be sure that any changes in the test group that don't show up in the control group are caused by the drug and not by something in the water.

Crime rates vary all the time. Without a scientific control in his experiment, his results could be real, or could be a result of normal statistical drift; there's no way to tell and so his results are meaningless.

3. It was discovered after the fact that the members of his "independent scientific review board" were not independent. All science is subject to intense critical scrutiny by the peers of the scientist doing the work. In this way, any mistakes or weaknesses in the results can be ruthlessly attacked. Only scientific results that can stand this scrutiny are accepted as valid.

It turns out that the board was not 'independent' after all; all the members were proponents of the Maharishi Principle and so were biased in their assessment. Had the (not) independent scientific review board been doing their job, they would have pointed out the bad science I'm pointing out now.

4. The results of the experiment has never been independently replicated.

5. And finally, after he published his work, attempts to independently verify his statistics found that, despite his claims of TM's success, the murder rate ROSE during the period in question. Hagelin MADE UP his data.

John Hagelin was deservedly awarded the 1994 Ig Nobel Prize for this outstanding Piece of Work.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: Diploid]
    #4543467 -

Thats really interesting, because I have not read the book and can produce no data to dispute your claim about Emoto. On the other hand your information about the DC study is completely and utterly false, let me demonstrate further:
Diploid said:

"Hagelin?s report stated violent crime had been reduced by 18%"

In actuality the study claimed it reduced crime by 23% it says so right on the graph.

"Just stating that something is %18 less is a meaningless statement. Less than last year? Less than in 1812? Less than in Zimbabwe?"

I'll quote directly to answer that accusation:
"data was obtained from the District of Columbia Metropolitan Police Department for 1993 as well as for the preceding five years (1988-1992)."
Also:
"Analysis of 1993 data, controlling for temperature, revealed that there was a highly significant decrease in HRA crimes associated with increases in the size of the group during the Demonstration Project. The maximum decrease was 23.3% when the size of the group was largest during the final week of the project. The statistical probability that this result could reflect chance variation in crime levels was less than 2 in 1 billion (p < .000000002). When a longer baseline is used (1988-1993 data), the maximum decrease was 24.6% during this period (p < .00003)."

There you have clear as day in the print. The crime rate was compared with the on going timeline.(I'll even put up the graph to further prove my point at the end of the post.

Diploid claims this as well:
"Crime rates vary all the time. Without a scientific control in his experiment, his results could be real, or could be a result of normal statistical drift; there's no way to tell and so his results are meaningless."

Much to the contrary there was a control:
"Additional data used for control purposes included weather variables (temperature, precipitation, humidity), daylight hours, changes in police and community anti-crime activities, prior crime trends in the District of Columbia, and concurrent crime trends in neighboring cities. Average weekly temperature was significantly correlated with homicides, rapes and assaults (HRA crimes), as has also been found in previous research; therefore temperature was used as a control variable in the main analysis of HRA crimes. Using time series analysis, violent crimes were analyzed separately in terms of HRA crimes (crimes against the person) and robbery (monetary crimes), as well as together."

Also: " The statistical probability that this result could reflect chance variation in crime levels was less than 2 in 1 billion"

You're on shaky ground Mr. D

Diploid claims the following as well:
"It turns out that the board was not 'independent' after all; all the members were proponents of the Maharishi Principle and so were biased in their assessment. Had the (not) independent scientific review board been doing their job, they would have pointed out the bad science I'm pointing out now."
and
" And finally, after he published his work, attempts to independently verify his statistics found that, despite his claims of TM's success, the murder rate ROSE during the period in question. Hagelin MADE UP his data."

Ah hah my friend now the roles are reversed and I am the skeptic and you are the one making the claims! Why don't you back those claims up with a little bit of credible evidence? Perhaps then you might sway my opinion.

Finally why would the author be awarded the Nobel Prize for something which was falsified? It just doesn't make sense. You seem to be arguing yourself into a hole my friend, and in the future I request that you refrain from attacking my personal philosophy, just because I stated that there are some studies which dispute your beliefs does not mean that I believe them. You asked for evidence and I provided it. What more can be said? I'm still not completely convinced any of you are real, for all I know you're all agents of the matrix watching my every move, waiting to snap me up before I fall in the rabbit hole and become "the one" who takes down your empire. Do you think I believe that?
-MOR
Diploid, I'm getting ready to go on a massive journey, one which is not solely relegated to the mind but one which is also relative to geographic coordinates. Perhaps you and I should get together and take the red pill, figuratively speaking.


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www.youtube.com/morstories

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: MyOwnReality]
    #4543519 -

In actuality the study claimed it reduced crime by 23% it says so right on the graph.

Follow up a bit more. He adjusted his figures when it became clear that someone was gonna call his bluff. In the end, even the adjusted figures were balony.

Additional data used for control purposes included weather variables

[dip sighs in disappointment]

Despite my attempt to explain it, you still don't understand what a Control is in an experiment.

Let's cut to the chase: have his results been reproduced?

Finally why would the author be awarded the Nobel Prize for something which was falsified?

EYE DIOS MIO! :foreheadslap:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: Diploid]
    #4543529 -

Diploid! You are going to hurt yourself my dear with all of that head slapping.:lol:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: MyOwnReality]
    #4544879 -

You've yet to provide evidence to support your claims. As the skeptic the burden of proof does not lie on me, but rather you the claimant.:)
-MOR


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www.youtube.com/morstories

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: MyOwnReality]
    #4545250 -

I've gone ahead and done your research for your diploid and I think I've come across the critique of my evidence which so heavily rely on. I'm going to post the URL where everyone involved can read "Voodoo Science and the Belief Gene" by Robert Park as well as the rebuttal to that article which was published in "The Skeptical Inquirer."
Article:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_5_24/ai_67691836
Rebuttal:
http://www.istpp.org/crime_prevention/voodoo_rebuttal.html

Now I'm going to go over some of the "facts" which I have uncovered in examining the two articles.
"Fact" #1
Mr. Park claims that the study was conducted using 5000 people, when according to the people who published it, it only contained 4000. Inaccuracies from the word go.
"Fact" #2
Park claims that the study claimed to reduce crime by 18%, and claimed that this was stated at the original press conference in 94. The rebuttal itself, published sometime after the article, and still sticks by the 23% figure. I'm not sure where you got the idea that they changed their figures afterwords, but I'll continue to research for another 10 minutes or so to see if I can uncover anything else.
"Fact" #4
Park claims that crime rose during the period in which the study was conducted. His claim is based on and I quote "the Washington Post would tally the gruesome weekend killings in the city." Highly scientific and statistical in nature don't you think? Funny, he doesn't mention anything about obtaining his info from the DC police department, as the publishers of the study do. Oh looking into this further there was a reason why the reported in question did not believe the statistics, that's because the murder average remained at 10 a week, just like the rest of the year, but during a normal summer, the murder rate would have rose drastically. Secondly, there was a 36 hour period during one week end, in which nearly 10 people died, doubling the toll for that week to twenty, he neglected to notice that the next week there were only 4. Also, park fails to mention rape, because it did actually fall that is in comparison with the rest of the year as well 58% to be exact.
"Fact" #4
You claim, as Mr. Park did in his 2000 article which is the subject of this post, that a scientific study must be submitted to a peer review board or published in a scientific journal, which this study was not. This claim is completely unbased, and I quote " The results were published in Social Indicators Research, a respected, peer-reviewed, scientific journal (Hagelin 1999)." That's right, 1999, a year before Mr. Park published his article.
"Fact" #5
The Park article is completely lacking in statistics, and a bibliography noting his sources. I find any such article that dares to make fiery claims without a hint of evidence highly dubious. Hagelin's study on the other hand has both cited source, and statistical information.

So there are some of the basic flaws in what I'm assuming is your ground to stand on.

Additionally you state that there is no control, technically speaking there isn't. Surely Hagelin could have built himself a John Titoresc time machine and went back in time, after the study was concluded, to a different world line, asked his ulterior self not to do the study, collected the same statistical data from the same time period on that worldline, and then returned with the control. But for some reason, which I cannot discern, he did not do that, and instead, in place of a control he used the strange idea of comparing it to the statistics of other years, and even bothered to check weather patterns(as hot weather is statistically correlated to violent crime.)

Your claim that no studies have ever been produced which reproduce the DC studies findings, is completely under researched follow this link and you shall see:
http://www.tmprogram.com.au/research/recent_research.html
you're gonna have to scroll down a bit but its all right there:
477. ASSIMAKIS, P. D., and DILLBECK, M. C. Time series analysis of improved quality of life in Canada: Social change, collective consciousness, and the TM-Sidhi program. Psychological Reports 1995 (In press).

Improved Quality of National Life: Improvements on a Weekly Index Including Motor Vehicle Fatalities, Homicide, and Suicide (Canada, 1983-1985); Improvements on a Monthly Index Including Motor Vehicle Fatalities, Homicide, Suicide, Cigarette Consumption, and Worker-Days Lost in Strikes (Canada, 1972-1986).

478. GELDERLOOS, P.; CAVANAUGH, K. L.; and DAVIES, J. L. (1990). The dynamics of US-Soviet relations, 1979-1986: Effects of reducing social stress through the Transcendental Meditation and TM-Sidhi program. In Proceedings of the American Statistical Association, Social Statistics Section, Alexandria, VA.

Improved U.S.A.--Soviet Relations: Improved U.S.A. Statements and Actions Towards the U.S.S.R. and Improved U.S.S.R. Statements and Actions Towards the U.S.A. (U.S.A. and U.S.S.R., 1979-1986).

479. ORME-JOHNSON, D. W.; ALEXANDER, C. N.; and DAVIES, J. L. The effects of the Maharishi Technology of the Unified Field: Reply to a methodological critique. Journal of Conflict Resolution 34(2): 756-768, 1990.

Strong Replication of Original Research Methodology.

480. REEKS, D. L. Improved quality of life in Iowa through the Maharishi Effect. Abstract of Doctoral Dissertation, Maharishi International University, U.S.A. Dissertation Abstracts International 51(12), 1991.

Reduced Unemployment, Traffic Fatalities, and Crime Rate (Iowa, 1979-1986).

481. HATCHARD, G. D.; DEANS, A. J.; CAVANAUGH, K. L.; and ORME-JOHNSON, D. W. The Maharishi Effect: A model for social improvement: Time series analysis of a phase transition to reduced crime in Merseyside metropolitan area. Psychology, Crime, and Law (1995, in press). Also presented by invitation to the Annual Conference of the British Psychological Society on Criminal and Legal Psychology, 1-3 March, 1993, Harrogate, England.

Decreased Crime Rate (Merseyside, England, 1988-1991).

482. HAGELIN, J. S.; ORME-JOHNSON, D. W.; RAINFORTH, M.; CAVANAUGH, K.; and ALEXANDER, C. N. Results of the national demonstration project to reduce violent crime and improve governmental effectiveness in Washington, D. C. Institute of Science, Technology and Public Policy Technical Report 94:1, 1994.

Decreased Violent Crime Rate (Washington, D.C., June and July, 1993); Increased Popular Support for U.S. President.

Not a direct reproduction, but several studies with similar findings. Now I know what your next accusation is probably going to be, and that is that none of the studies are worth the poop in my pants, because they're all from people with the same ideas, and perhaps even many of them are from the same institution. Ouch, you got me. So that means that none of the stanford studies on physics which produce similar results can be validated because they're all from the same place. Right? hrm.

Well now that I've gone ahead and called your bluff, and done all the "follow up" research for myself, I can find no reason why I would be inclined to give your claims any credit. I dare you to produce something of evidence, which is at least well cited to back up your claims. Other wise you should really just give up the argument over this particular piece of evidence, believe it or not, and move on to something else. If any one else has some piece of evidence which my discredit mine I implore you, help me subscribe to some new idea, because as of yet, my good friend diploid is very unconvincing.
-MOR
P.S. I also welcome critiques on my debating skills, I'm always looking for tips that might help me to become a master debater. But you must PM me on that note, for I believe that it is off topic.:)


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www.youtube.com/morstories

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: MyOwnReality]
    #4546417 -

Heh heh,

As this thread is PROOF of, Diploid claims a lot of false stuff.

Ironically, as I metioned earlier, considering his side of the debate!

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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: Ego Death]
    #4546455 -

See this is why the open minded people are always going to be right.

Because if you believe something isn't real, then you have just created another false belief.

This is why MOR has stated his 'subscrption' disclaimer. Just as I did in my early alien threads. I stated that my belief held could only ever be 99% because I cannot be certain of anything.

Analyse the reasons why you hold the belief. They often stem back to basic human emotion such as fear.


Will Diploid, Swarmi and the other ignorant people ever accept that they should follow their own preaching! Of course not, the very nature of the fact that they made a decision to not believe, shows that they are not open-minded!

They are experiencing the mentally manifested pain of changing the automated/robotic response map the brain creates. This has all been proven lol, that is that people experience increasing anxiety when their beliefs are questioned.


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Re: Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates! [Re: Ego Death]
    #4546583 -

danoEoboy said:
See this is why the open minded people are always going to be right.



If they are truly open-minded, then they consider all the possibilities. As soon as one of the possibilities is shown to be fact, they were (technically) right. This is similar to someone taking a multiple-choice test marking answers A-D. One of those choices is probably correct. Does this mean they were "right"?

Quote:
Because if you believe something isn't real, then you have just created another false belief.



Only false if the something in question is, in fact, real. Likewise, if you believe something is real, and it is not, you have created a false belief.

Quote:
Analyse the reasons why you hold the belief. They often stem back to basic human emotion such as fear.

Will Diploid, Swarmi and the other ignorant people ever accept that they should follow their own preaching! Of course not, the very nature of the fact that they made a decision to not believe, shows that they are not open-minded!



Does this line of thinking apply to you, too? If you make a decision to believe, albeit only 99% certain, how can you be open-minded? If you are certain that their beliefs are false, ignorant, closed-minded, oppressive, etc... aren't you expressing a fear-based belief?

BTW, my honest, open-minded position on anything which can neither be proven nor disproven is: "I DON'T KNOW."

Edited by Veritas (08/17/05 12:26 PM)

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