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Serious Question for War Backers
    #1469830 -

How can you easily see through the anti-drug propaganda; which is the Government lying to the American people, but whole-heartedly believe the Iraqi war propaganda?



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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: Swami]
    #1469861 -

i don't think that most of the war-backers here buy the propaganda.

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: Swami]
    #1469917 -

As bad as this is gonna sound, I like the fact that I am not gonna be paying two bucks a gallon for gas this next summer.  :smirk:  In fact, I think it may go back below a dollar.

And not all of the propaganda is horrible.  I truly believe the Iraqi's wanted liberation.  I mean come on their leader killed thousands of his own citizens (kurds) becuase he did not like them, and without global pressure to stop I belive he would still be doing so to this day.  I sure do not here anyone complaining about World War 2.   


--------------------
"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: Swami]
    #1469958 -

Quote:
How can you easily see through the anti-drug propaganda; which is the Government lying to the American people, but whole-heartedly believe the Iraqi war propaganda?



I guess the same thing can be said about the Pacifists, how can you be so blind as to not see what needs to be done. Noone on this site is Pro-War, and noone on this site will change their mind on this subject. I don't live my life trying to invent different conspiracies to validate my distaste of the American government. Truth be told 99.9% of those that are protesting are protesting Bush, NOT the war. Where were they in Bosnia?


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1470058 -

As bad as this is gonna sound, I like the fact that I am not gonna be paying two bucks a gallon for gas this next summer. In fact, I think it may go back below a dollar.

1. The price rose in response to the war, not because of Hussein.

2. Where do you think the $100,000,000,000 for the war came from? Your pocket and mine.


And not all of the propaganda is horrible.

ALL propaganda (the twisting of truth or fabrication of lies to push an agenda) is horrible.


I truly believe the Iraqi's wanted liberation.

1. We went in there because they violated UN sanctions though the US does NOT believe in the UN; no I mean we went in there because of the non-existent WOMD; no I mean we went in there to free the Iraqi people - yeah, That's It!

2. Many other countries have oppressive regimes that we will NOT go to war with because we don't give a damn about "the people".

3. Who will liberate the tens of thousands of unjustly jailed American marijuana users? Is that not oppressive and a terror to be removed from your family for years for a political "crime"?




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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: Swami]
    #1470076 -

Quote:
1. The price rose in response to the war, not because of Hussein.


1. The cost of oil and gasoline has dropped since the war began just like it did in 1991. I don't have the exact numbers but in 91 it went from 35 dollars a barrel to about 25. Where has it increased?

Quote:
2. Where do you think the $100,000,000,000 for the war came from? Your pocket and mine.



The cost of this war as of right now is somewhere from 20 to 30 billion dollars. Where are you getting your information?

Quote:
ALL propaganda (the twisting of truth or fabrication of lies to push an agenda) is horrible.



Does that count for the protestors?

Quote:
Many other countries have oppressive regimes that we will NOT go to war with because we don't give a damn about "the people".



why is it just OUR responsibility? Where is France, Germany, Russia and China? Or is it only fashinable to bash the United States?



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: Swami]
    #1470082 -

I hate to say it, Swami, but that's a pretty naive question. We all buy into some propaganda, whether we know it or not. Everyone is susceptible to it, no matter how strong-willed they think they are.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Edited by silversoul7 (04/18/03 12:58 PM)

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1470121 -

Quote:
how can you be so blind as to not see what needs to be done. 



Nothing needed to be done by our government. If the Iraqi people want liberation then they should rise up against their government. I will, ONCE AGAIN, use Serbia in 2000 as an example.

So far this agression has cost the tax payers on the United States $20B. It's expected to cost between $2-3B per month from this point fwd.  :mad:

Quote:
Truth be told 99.9% of those that are protesting are protesting Bush,


Not me... I am against the war for moral, legal and financial reasons.

Quote:
Where were they in Bosnia? 



or Serbia for that matter... I was saying the same then as I am now. It's all the same sh!t just a different way. Clinton got caught with his member out so he dropped bombs. Bush, either to show he has a member, or and most likely, for oil he drops bombs.

I am anti-government (Clintons, Bush's, etc.) I will remain that way until we have a government that respects our privacy and freedom. I fear that I shall remain anti-government for the remainder of my life......  :frown: 


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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: silversoul7]
    #1470131 -

I hate to say it,
Then don't. It is stressful to do things that you hate.

...but that's a pretty naive question. We all buy into some propaganda
Agreed, but I think that you missed my point. If a person or group or committee blatantly lies to you about A and you are aware of their lies; how does one then trust them when they talk about B?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: Swami]
    #1470137 -

Quote:
Agreed, but I think that you missed my point. If a person or group or committee blatantly lies to you about A and you are aware of their lies; how does one then trust them when they talk about B?


People believe what they want to believe. And btw, the Bush Administration didn't start the Drug War or the propaganda that feeds it. In this instance they're just continuing a long-held tradition.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: grib]
    #1470143 -

Quote:
I am anti-government (Clintons, Bush's, etc.) I will remain that way until we have a government that respects our privacy and freedom. I fear that I shall remain anti-government for the remainder of my life......



I hope you're wrong, i really do.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: silversoul7]
    #1470158 -

And btw, the Bush Administration didn't start the Drug War or the propaganda that feeds it. In this instance they're just continuing a long-held tradition.

Bush APPOINTED Ashcroft and Hutchins in his own image and likeness, did he not?

What does it matter who started it? If my parents are lying thieving crooks, then I must be too? Try some logic on for size to see how it fits.

I don't remember Nixon running SuperBowl adds telling how marijuana makes you shoot your best friend and rape your date.

Funny how Jeb Bush overlooked the drug laws when it came to his daughter...


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: Swami]
    #1470164 -

we've heard the drug BS for a long time. we've all seen evidense that it's BS piled up so high that we KNOW it's bullshit propaganda. we know that the facts stand in the way of the lies we're told about drugs.

so this war is being sold to the public by shameless propaganda. unlike the war on drugs, there are arguments in favor of this war that are not founded on the lies we're told.

i'm against this war, but when those in favor of this war justify the war on these principles:

1. Saddam Hussein signed a conditional peace treaty at the end of the Gulf War.

and

2. He has been in violation of that treaty for over a decade.

i have difficulty arguing. the US does have a 'right' to attack. we can, i just don't think we should.

the 'pro-war' argument is not necessarily founded on propaganda. the drug war argument is.


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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1470181 -

Quote:
I mean come on their leader killed thousands of his own citizens (kurds) becuase he did not like them


Neither Saddam nor the Kurds would consider themselves Saddam's people. The Kurds don't even want to be citizens of Iraq. They want their own country, and have pretty much established it, a so-called "Kurdistan". To say that they were citizens would be a misnomer. They were residents of the country of Iraq in-so-much as they lived within is political borders. They were not citizens as they essentially gave up their citizenship to fight against Saddam. You may argue that just because they are fighting the govenment doesn't revoke their citizenship, but they way things are going in America, it will be the same here.

Thats all.
jssmthrfcknchrst


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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: Swami]
    #1470183 -

It basically comes down to this: All politicians are considered to be lying, thieving crooks. So are we just going to believe that everything they say is a lie? Most here will agree that Iraqis were suffering under Saddam Hussein's regime. And even tho we haven't found weapons of mass destruction, we know that we did sell them to him during his war with Iran, so it's not like they never existed. So there are valid arguments for the war. And you don't even have to believe all the propaganda to be for it, just like how I don't have to believe that it's all about the oil to be against the war.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Edited by silversoul7 (04/18/03 01:34 PM)

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1470202 -

i believe you meant to reply to diggity, not me. That quote is from him.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: Swami]
    #1470204 -

Which propaganda?

I do happen to believe 20 years of reports from Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch about the 800,000 to 1,500,000 people slaughtered by Hussein's forces.

I believe that the UN inspectors found chemical weapons during their first inspection regime, and that there is no proof that those were destroyed after the inspectors were withdrawn. As pointed out earlier, this is a violation of the cease-fire that Saddam signed, fromt he first war which he started all by himself.

I believe that was a real nuclear reactor in Iraq. The french company that manufactured it certainly thinks so.

I do believe that Hussein has been paying $25k to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers, and backing Palestinian Islamic Jihad. I don't think he gives a damn about Palestinians, but it makes a great distraction.

I do not, however, believe that Hussein really got 100% of the vote.

I don't believe that the Baath regime had a change of heart and quit working on chemical or biological weapons. I don't think they quit murdering their own people.

I'm all for toppling murderous tyrants. Is every single specific charge against Saddam true? I don't care. The majority are.

Edited by wingnutx (04/18/03 01:44 PM)

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: Swami]
    #1470206 -

Quote:
3. Who will liberate the tens of thousands of unjustly jailed American marijuana users? Is that not oppressive and a terror to be removed from your family for years for a political "crime"?




It is oppressive, and we're working on it. Funny enough, it is hawks like the 'neo-cons' at the National Review that are doing the most to end the war on drugs.

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: wingnutx]
    #1470380 -

Quote:
It is oppressive, and we're working on it. Funny enough, it is hawks like the 'neo-cons' at the National Review that are doing the most to end the war on drugs.


Yep. I love that magazine.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Serious Question for War Backers [Re: z@z.com]
    #1470410 -

I like their online 'corner'

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