Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |  [ show all ]
Meaning is delusional
    #13400315 -

What do you make of this statement? Do you agree? Disagree?

Why? :mushroom2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: Poid] * 1
    #13400416 -

Meaning is subjective.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: Icelander]
    #13400419 -

So are delusions.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: Poid]
    #13400438 -

Does that mean we're done here?:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: Poid]
    #13400461 -

Nope. :tongue:

For example: the idea that cookie dough ice cream is the best kind ice cream is delusional. So is the idea that a sunset is beautiful, or that your family members are more important than any other people.

You may counter this by saying that people who hold on to these ideas don't believe that they are objectively true, but are only true to them, but even the idea of "I" is a delusion.


"I think cookie dough ice cream is the best, the sunset is beautiful to me, my family members are the most important people to me."--all of that is delusional because it is based on the idea that "I" is not a lie.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (10/28/10 02:17 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: Poid]
    #13400933 -

How is the idea of I delusional when I can smack you over the head with a shovel? Clearly there are boundaries between you and I.


--------------------
:hamletmonkey:

Edited by Mnboardin (10/28/10 03:27 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: Mnboardin]
    #13401334 -

What are you referring to when you say "meaning" is delusional?  You seem to be pointing out that certain statements of objective fact are delusional, but these aren't synonymous with "meaning".  Also, why is the idea of "I" a delusion?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: Poid]
    #13401337 -

Poid said:
but even the idea of "I" is a delusion.



What is the idea of "I"?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: Poid]
    #13401680 -

Poid said:
What do you make of this statement? Do you agree? Disagree?

Why? :mushroom2:


i don't agree or disagree... it's a delusional statement :evil:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: deranger]
    #13401807 -

Mnboardin said:
How is the idea of I delusional when I can smack you over the head with a shovel? Clearly there are boundaries between you and I.

You the human organism and you the personality are two different you's; you the organism is real, whereas you the personality is a false contrivance.



deCypher said:
What are you referring to when you say "meaning" is delusional?

The type of meaning that people mean when they say "That has a lot of meaning to me.", or "I want a meaningful life.".


deCypher said:
You seem to be pointing out that certain statements of objective fact are delusional, but these aren't synonymous with "meaning".

It is the meaning that one puts into anything that is delusional, any statement one makes regarding the things that s/he considers to have meaning is just a declaration of their opinions.


deCypher said:
Also, why is the idea of "I" a delusion?

Because it is a false sense of self; the sense of I is a mental construct, and to identify with a mental construct is as delusional as identifying with a nutsack.



I AM SWIM said:
What is the idea of "I"?

It is the idea that one is a mental construct.



deranger said:
Poid said:
What do you make of this statement? Do you agree? Disagree?

Why? :mushroom2:


i don't agree or disagree... it's a delusional statement :evil:

Touché, my good sir. :strokebeard:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: Poid]
    #13401856 -

Poid said:
deCypher said:
What are you referring to when you say "meaning" is delusional?

The type of meaning that people mean when they say "That has a lot of meaning to me.", or "I want a meaningful life.".


deCypher said:
You seem to be pointing out that certain statements of objective fact are delusional, but these aren't synonymous with "meaning".

It is the meaning that one puts into anything that is delusional, any statement one makes regarding the things that s/he considers to have meaning is just a declaration of their opinions.


I find meaning in certain activities; how is this subjective sense of fulfillment delusional?  You have to distinguish between subjective and objective meaning here; obviously when someone proclaims something to be objectively meaningful they are most likely wrong.

Poid said:
deCypher said:
Also, why is the idea of "I" a delusion?

Because it is a false sense of self; the sense of I is a mental construct, and to identify with a mental construct is as delusional as identifying with a nutsack.


What do you mean by identifying with a mental construct?  The idea of "I" is used, quite simply, to differentiate between you and me... an idea that any toddler can recognize.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: deCypher] * 2
    #13401871 -

Where is a toddler when you need one?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13401916 -

deCypher said:
I find meaning in certain activities; how is this subjective sense of fulfillment delusional?

If by sense of fulfillment, you are referring to an pleasant emotion, then I'm not sure if that can be considered a delusion because an emotion is not a belief (delusions are false beliefs). I'm saying that the meaning is delusional, because it is rooted in the belief that "I" is something more than a mere mental construct.


deCypher said:
You have to distinguish between subjective and objective meaning here; obviously when someone proclaims something to be objectively meaningful they are most likely wrong.

Read above.


deCypher said:
What do you mean by identifying with a mental construct?

Identifying with a personality, and believing that that is what you are.


deCypher said:
The idea of "I" is used, quite simply, to differentiate between you and me...

If that were true, then people would say "this human", or something to that effect instead of "I"--in reality, though, the idea of "I" is not only used to differentiate between you and me, but rather, it is used as a sort of self-affirmation of the existence of the personality construct as a bona-fide "self".



OrgoneConclusion said:
Where is a toddler when you need one?

:hansen:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: deCypher] * 2
    #13401929 -

subjectivity is intrinsic to whatever the word meaning signifies

it signifies that a thinking agent holds an emotionally laced opinion of some entity and perhaps event/occasion

there are certain things we could evolutionarily support as healthy dispositions, no?

these tie into meaning, it probably isn't really probably that useful to squabble about what the individual agent actually is here, at least if we point out that the personality is very much predicated by factors beyond what we call its control, but even within a lifetime it is evident that potency can fluctuate (which is interesting, shows how dynamic/arbitrary things can get) whether it be an eventual blasé attitude to certain things or paradigm shifts...


but can meaning be a certain kind of higher thought, well a distinction, we can label things more meaningful insofar as they are as they are or something - or insofar as they a precursors or harbingers - like superstitions, they're quite delusional but I would think there are pretty sufficient reasons for their emergence in the human species... I guess they might be inferences that have been refined as the ideas/memes get passed down... refined errors of causation or something but there could be some sociological utility in many rituals that might be full of meaning or whatever... I'll think a second for cases but for now... blah


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

Edited by andrewss (10/28/10 06:35 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: Poid]
    #13401979 -

Poid said:
I'm saying that the meaning is delusional, because it is rooted in the belief that "I" is something more than a mere mental construct.


Don't see how this follows... I'm using "finding meaning in an activity" as synonymous with "finding a sense of fulfillment".

Poid said:
deCypher said:
What do you mean by identifying with a mental construct?

Identifying with a personality, and believing that that is what you are.


Who am I?  I'm me, and I have a personality.  None of this implies that that the idea of "me" is a delusion; the idea exists and we're using it right now to talk to each other, unless you want to argue that there is no such thing as you or me because All is One or something similar.

Poid said:
deCypher said:
The idea of "I" is used, quite simply, to differentiate between you and me...

If that were true, then people would say "this human", or something to that effect instead of "I"


By "I", most people generally do mean "this human", IMO.

Poid said:
--in reality, though, the idea of "I" is not only used to differentiate between you and me, but rather, it is used as a sort of self-affirmation of the existence of the personality construct as a bona-fide "self".


So... you're somehow transforming the idea of "I", which certainly exists, into a belief that is false?  :what:  It seems like you're dragging in a lot of extraneous baggage into a commonly used concept.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: deCypher]
    #13402013 -

The meaning of life is love.


--------------------
Real eyes, realize, real lies

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: deCypher]
    #13402052 -

andrewss said:
but can meaning be a certain kind of higher thought, well a distinction, we can label things more meaningful insofar as they are as they are or something - or insofar as they a precursors or harbingers - like superstitions, they're quite delusional...

I agree, "meaningness" is like religion, totally delusional. :nut:



deCypher said:
Poid said:
I'm saying that the meaning is delusional, because it is rooted in the belief that "I" is something more than a mere mental construct.


Don't see how this follows... I'm using "finding meaning in an activity" as synonymous with "finding a sense of fulfillment".

I don't see how finding something could be considered delusional (and I never said it is), because the act of looking for something isn't a belief (delusions are beliefs).


deCypher said:
Who am I?  I'm me, and I have a personality.  None of this implies that that the idea of "me" is a delusion;

I'm not arguing that simply having a personality is delusional, because all personality is is exhibited behavior; I'm arguing that identifying with a personality is delusional.

Animals other than humans have personalities, but I seriously doubt they identify with them.


deCypher said:
...the idea exists and we're using it right now to talk to each other, unless you want to argue that there is no such thing as you or me because All is One or something similar.

I'm not saying anything of the sort--we're communicating words, we needn't necessarily have to identify with our personalities in order to be involved in this communication.


deCypher said:
By "I", most people generally do mean "this human", IMO.

IMO, most people are generally referring to their personalities when they say "I" or "me" as an affirmation that their personalities are, in a word, real.


Poid said:
So... you're somehow transforming the idea of "I", which certainly exists, into a belief that is false?  :what:

The identification with "I" is the delusion--"I" can exist with one not identifying with it, just like any other mental construct can exist without identifying with it.


deCypher said:
It seems like you're dragging in a lot of extraneous baggage into a commonly used concept.

Well I'm just speaking about my observations and inferences of people's behavior--I know that some people don't identify with "I", but IMO most people do; it appears to be the source of emotional problems, which almost everybody I've seen/met appears to have.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (10/31/12 07:50 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: shroomincali]
    #13402054 -

shroomincali said:
The meaning of life is love.

Says who?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: Poid]
    #13402084 -

Poid said:
I don't see how finding something could be considered delusional (and I never said it is), because the act of looking for something isn't a belief (delusions are beliefs).


Right, which is why I'm confused as to why you are saying the meaning I find in something is a delusion, because this meaning isn't a belief but rather a feeling.

Poid said:
I'm arguing that identifying with a personality is delusional.


You're gonna have to clarify what you mean by "identifying" with a personality, which you're apparently using synonymously with identifying with "I".  I am me and "I" identifies me, but this isn't the same thing as saying I am my personality... I am a lot more than just that.  Honestly I can't think of anyone I know who would think that they are merely their personality.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Edited by deCypher (10/28/10 07:07 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Meaning is delusional [Re: Poid]
    #13402384 -

Poid said:
shroomincali said:
The meaning of life is love.

Says who?



--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* What does it all mean? Chikhai 1,866 17 07/26/02 09:42 PM
by whiterastahippie
* Shrooms: Divine Insight or Delusions of Grandeur?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 Sclorch 10,477 86 04/29/03 06:04 AM
by Shroomism
* Happiness Delusion? Depression Sane?
( 1 2 all )		 DoctorJ 3,329 23 11/15/03 04:18 AM
by jiva
* Matrix Reloaded True Meaning/ Transcript of Neo/Architect
( 1 2 3 all )		 HagbardCeline 7,823 45 04/17/12 02:47 AM
by Buster_Brown
* What Pragmatism Means RebelSteve33 1,025 5 02/21/03 02:05 AM
by Nomad
* What is the Meaning of Life?
( 1 2 all )		 SafeHaven 3,015 22 11/26/02 10:23 PM
by 3eyedgod
* objective reality does not exist
( 1 2 all )		 monoamine 6,642 34 11/01/02 10:55 AM
by Newbie2000
* ROTA Meaning of Grand Sextile Conjunction 2003/11/08 Annapurna1 1,142 12 11/05/03 09:33 PM
by ZippoZ

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
4,910 topic views. 2 members, 42 guests and 30 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.04 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 18 queries.