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OfflineChikhai
member
Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 110
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
What does it all mean?
    #774546 - 07/24/02 10:38 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Why is happiness the end goal of so many beliefs and religions? Why is happiness regarded as "better" than fear, or anger, or hatred. Is it because happiness "feels" better. I sure as hell would rather feel happy than sad, or anything else, but does that nescesarily mean that happiness is more important, or more significant, or better than any other emotion or feeling?

And why is it assumed that. Wait. Why do people believe in assumptions? I am here, I can not explain why, so I think I'll assume there must be some great reason for it. It makes me happy to think that way. I want others to feel happy too so I will explain my delusions to them in a way that seems like fact.

Is that what religion and spirituality is all about? Is it an unconscious distribution of feel-good delusions? Maybe we live our entire lives believing delusions of who we are, where we're going, and why we're going there. Perhaps we are nothing but physical entities with enough interconnected bits of material that we can produce a constant onslaught of delusions. In a sense we may be nothing more than delusion machines manufactured by the universe.

I'm not saying I believe this, but it's just something I thought of while listening to Eulogy. Any thoughts/opinions would be cool =)




--------------------
"I see!" said the blind man to his deaf wife.


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: Chikhai]
    #774560 - 07/24/02 10:47 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I take a rather romantic view of things...
Everything is an illusion. The closest thing to the truth must be related to what brought us here, and what brought us here is love. Even this could be an illusion. But certainly no more of an illusion than fear, hate, desire, pride, etc...


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: Chikhai]
    #774731 - 07/25/02 12:32 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Welcome to Nihilisma, we hope you have a brief, yet meaningful, stay.

I had a similar dismantling a few years ago, following my "falling" from the religion I was raised in. It was good for me--I had to question everything! I hope it serves you as well.

Good luck


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,499
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: Chikhai]
    #774922 - 07/25/02 05:40 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

It's evolution. We are genetically adapted to seek out feelings of pleasure and happiness because they are almost always coupled with actual physical well-being. People are happy when they have enough food and shelter, are with friends and feel secure, and when they are having sex. Any species that likes fear and pain will seek them out and will probably meet an early end, so they wouldn't evolve and hence would not be around today. Happiness is important to humans because it is an indication that the necessities of life are secured.

As for religion, personally I think it is so popular because it provides security. You just have to believe in God, and he will supposedly take care of you. I guess most people think this is a good deal.

Eulogy kicks ass, BTW.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: Chikhai]
    #774964 - 07/25/02 05:59 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, nihilism. That?s a tough one. I think of it like this: You either assume that there is some ultimate meaning in the world (e.g., from God or some other higher power) that tells you what you ?should? be doing and ?why? we are here. Or, you feel that there really is no meaning in the world but what we (humans) create and ascribe. I personally prescribe to the latter view (in theory anyway).

A lot of people will think that this is a negative, depressing way to look at the world but not necessarily. I constantly try to find out what values underlie my hierarchy of values- the foundations of what I feel should guide my behavior- an ideal self? After pealing away the more superficial values, I think it is something like compassion for others and some sort of wisdom (yes, right from Buddhism). This self exploration (shrooms are good for this) can lead to your own understanding of meaning in YOUR universe. I think it is working for me anyway.

Why do I find compassion for others meaningful? I feel it is something I am intrinsically invested in- When I act accordingly, I am not doing so as a means to an end, but because I enjoy it in and of itself. I think when you find these intrinsic values, you will be satisfied that they are the meaning you are looking for.


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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Anonymous

Re: What does it all mean? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #775072 - 07/25/02 06:52 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

"It's evolution."

Well that's one religion heard from.

Dude, what happened to your hair? I was starting to like it. I'm sorry about the comb comment.

Cheers,


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,499
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Re: What does it all mean? [Re: ]
    #775231 - 07/25/02 08:12 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I cut off the hair and got a new face made out of ink.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: Chikhai]
    #775557 - 07/25/02 11:01 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

My opinion:

Happiness is transitory, it cannot be grasped, it cannot be saved for another time, it can only be experienced. It is delusional to to think that once we acheive a goal we will have lasting happiness, for after a period of time we will grow familiar with our situation. To maintain happiness requires acheiving new goals (a goal can be as simple as to get a few laughs from watching a funny movie). Don't stagnate.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: Autonomous]
    #777235 - 07/25/02 11:48 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Don't listen to what Autonomous says... he's just depressed.

Happiness is NOT transitory, it CAN be grasped, it CAN be saved for another time...
In fact, I can give you all the happiness you've ever wanted. You'll never be sad again... ONLY happy. I'm talking the kind of happiness that you feel with every deep belly-laugh. Yeah, you can have that all the time. I have it... why shouldn't you have it?

That's right, happiness is only an email away!!


To order your Happiness? please email me and we'll arrange your method of payment be it Paypal or credit card (sorry no personal checks or CODs). Please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery. If not satisfied with your Happiness?, you're probably doing something wrong.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
lover

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 14 years, 4 days
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: Sclorch]
    #777296 - 07/26/02 12:32 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

if i am a machine manufactured by the universe. sludged up by chance. how can i trust my own logic? therefore i shouldn't even think and expect it to mean something at all. if fact, i shouldn't even try to do anything at all because there is no point. but everything must have a beginning except energy. and since we have physical bodies, and brain. follow my train of thought. you all are smart.
of course, you could say, that out of chaos, comes order. then oder stagnates, and we get chaos. and so on. like history.


--------------------
Peace and Love to all!


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OfflineChikhai
member
Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 110
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #778040 - 07/26/02 10:08 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I can't figure out a way to prove that we have (or that I have) a physical body. I mean, sure, I appear to have one. All my senses tell me I have one, but if I really think about it the only place in which my physical body exists for me is within my mind...

I guess what I'm really wondering is what is the feeling/thinking/meaning behind our "physical properties." Emotions and thoughts seem to be in an entirely different world than our bodies and the things around us. How does something have taste? Sure, you can put some sugar in your mouth and you will surely taste sugar, but what in the hell is taste!? How do a bunch of physical processes create such a feeling of tasting sugar?

I'm not really too worried about answering any of these questions... I like asking them =)


--------------------
"I see!" said the blind man to his deaf wife.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: Chikhai]
    #778116 - 07/26/02 10:36 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Chikhai-
You should maybe read up on philosophy of mind. It sounds like you're interested in it. Check out Hofstadter's "The Mind's I". Also, there are several good textbook-type books on the subject. Two decent ones: Copeland's "Artificial Intelligence" and Boden's "The Philosophy of Artificial Intelligence".

It's NOT about how to build your own Haley Joel Osment.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflinePaleE
journeyman

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Who are you? And why do ...
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: Chikhai]
    #778546 - 07/26/02 03:04 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Hmmmm...thoughs of happy or unhappy are ultimately unsatisfying....
oh wait...let's 'readersDigest' that one...
thoughts are unsat..
oh wait...
just one more...
ommmmmm...

Happiness (like knowledge) is a thirst that only grows with the 'drinking'...
Liberate yourself from thought, have no preference for one moment (or number of feeling or sensation) and you'll be hooked up with...
ummm...
Better than happy...no..that's not quite right..
ummm..
I don't know the word...but..

(assumes the position)...

Thx,
the pale e


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: Sclorch]
    #778550 - 07/26/02 03:10 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

That's right, happiness is only an email away!!

I was all ready to sign up, then I realized you were just fucking with us. Now I am sad.

That's right, sadness is only an email away!!

To order your Sadness; please email me and we'll arrange your method of payment be it Paypal or credit card (sorry no personal checks or CODs). Please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery. If not satisfied with your Sadness, then you know it is working - either way we got you there.




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (07/26/02 03:11 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: What does it all mean? [Re: Swami]
    #778564 - 07/26/02 03:21 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Here Swami, try this phone number (it's real) 1-800-397-1193 .

Maybe that will make you feel better.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: ]
    #778616 - 07/26/02 03:59 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Holy shit... that was funny.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineChikhai
member
Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 110
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: ]
    #778978 - 07/26/02 08:11 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I'm gonna have to remember that next time I trip =)


--------------------
"I see!" said the blind man to his deaf wife.


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
lover

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 14 years, 4 days
Re: What does it all mean? [Re: PaleE]
    #779153 - 07/26/02 09:42 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Better than happy...no..that's not quite right..

content?


--------------------
Peace and Love to all!


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