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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap.
    #5717794 - 06/06/06 01:59 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

"When you wake up you will. [,,,] You already have it. You are already there.

When you understand this something will happen. You discover that the distinction

between volintary and involuntary behaviour dissapears. You will realize that

what you describe as things under your own will feel exactly as the things going

out outside you. You watch other people moving and you know you're doing that,

just like you're breathing or circulating your blood. If you don't understand what

is going on, you are reliable to get crazy at this point and to feel that you are God

in the Jehova sense. To say that you actually have power over other human people, so

that you have control over what they are doing. And that you are omnipotent in a

very crude literal kind of bible sense. You see? And alot of people feel that and

they go crazy, they have to put them away. They think they are Jesus Christ and that

everybody ought to fall down and worship them. That is only because they got their

wires crossed. This experience happened to them and they don't know how to interpret

it. So be careful of that. Jung calls it inflation. People who get the

Holy Man Syndrome. That I've suddenly discovered that I am the Lord and that I

am beyond good and evil and so on. And therefore I start giving myself graces.

But the point is everybody else is too. If you discover that you are That,

then you ought to know that everybody else is."


- Alan Watts


Heheheh, not to mention names, but this is something someone ought to digest and keep stop spreading the holier than thou attitude that have been polluting some threads lately. This is about waking up, not trying to muster up some evil reality dream where one is planning on torturing the poor misguided bullies that flushed your head down the toilet when you were still a kid in school. Why not use that brilliant mind constructivley, and stop spreading more hate. Negativity breeds its own kind.

Should a man of Justice be able to see beyond the illusory masked conditioning making way for such ignorant deeds?

Peace.


Edited by dr_mandelbrot (06/06/06 02:08 AM)


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: dorkus]
    #5717811 - 06/06/06 02:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Alan Watts educates and confuses me like no one else.


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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Fospher]
    #5717858 - 06/06/06 02:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Alan Watts is one of my favorite lecturers on Buddhism and Taoism. The man is a genious. The fact that he didn't really live up to his teachings all the time, can be interpreted in many ways in my opinion. Maybe he believed in instant moksha upon giving up our individual identity and therefore really didn't give a fuck?

He seems to hold an astonishing understanding of the ancient teachings, and to me he speaks more clearly than most.

I placed this post here because of the petty drama that has been going on regarding delusions of grandeur though. Hope I wasn't out of line. I struggle with it myself every now and then, but good people have their ways of undressing my pretenses. It is like slowly putting on the breaks on a pendulum. It keeps slipping off.


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InvisibleTacticalBongRip
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: dorkus]
    #5718349 - 06/06/06 09:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

So someone has been actin like they are beyond good and evil? those bastards!!! :evil: :rasta: :stoned:


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: dorkus]
    #5718355 - 06/06/06 09:46 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

hmm havent gotten to that level yet.. but sounds great so im looking forward to it!  :smirk:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: dorkus]
    #5718369 - 06/06/06 09:50 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Why don't you have the guts to come out and say it's me you're refering to. You cowardly bastard. :thumbdown: :evil:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Icelander]
    #5718473 - 06/06/06 10:37 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Why don't you have the guts to come out and say it's me you're refering to. You cowardly bastard. :thumbdown: :evil:




It goes without saying, my old petty bastard brother.

Did you miss the brilliant mind part?  :grin:


Edited by dr_mandelbrot (06/06/06 10:45 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: dorkus]
    #5718721 - 06/06/06 12:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I miss mostly everything these days. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Icelander]
    #5718731 - 06/06/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Seriously though, Ice. You know I did struggle with this myself. The ego coming in the way. And sometimes it still does. We have conversed on this in PMs. Please bear with me.

I can also admit that upon hearing this lecture I kept thinking of DoctorJ and his latest postings.

I believe and hope that my intentions for posting this was good.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Icelander]
    #5718736 - 06/06/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I miss mostly everything these days. :tongue:




What do you mean? I'm uncertain if your pulling my leg or trying to teach me a lesson. Or maybe both?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: dorkus]
    #5718774 - 06/06/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
Seriously though, Ice. You know I did struggle with this myself. The ego coming in the way. And sometimes it still does. We have conversed on this in PMs. Please bear with me.

I can also admit that upon hearing this lecture I kept thinking of DoctorJ and his latest postings.

I know who you were refering too.  :wink:

I believe and hope that my intentions for posting this was good.




--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: dorkus]
    #5718784 - 06/06/06 12:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I miss mostly everything these days. :tongue:




What do you mean? I'm uncertain if your pulling my leg or trying to teach me a lesson. Or maybe both?




What I mean is I rarely read posts anymore in depth. I often just post based on the title or the first sentence of the post. So I miss details. Usually I get away with it. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Icelander]
    #5718792 - 06/06/06 12:32 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Why would you do that? What is your intention to post?

This coyote is boggling.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: dorkus]
    #5718866 - 06/06/06 12:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I usually can tell what a persons point is that easily. I don't need alot of verbose detail. It's my way of developing certain skills in myself and playing. Nothing here is very serious. Could you tell by my replies that I don't read everything? :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Icelander]
    #5718880 - 06/06/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure. It seems to be a hazardious game to play young feeble minds like that. But for all I know you're psychic. Anyway it is non of my business, so I guess it's all good. :smile:

So without having read my first post, could you elaborate on it's content? Don't you find details of importance at all?

Or whatever. Just forget about it, if you want to save time.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: dorkus]
    #5718912 - 06/06/06 01:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I scrolled down your post. Saw the word inflation. Saw you were talking about DJ and then posted my little joke to you. Is there more I need to know? I am already familiar with Jung.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Icelander]
    #5718931 - 06/06/06 01:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

There is nothing you need to know. You are right.


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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Icelander]
    #5718986 - 06/06/06 01:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm just the opposite.
I love crazies.
Wild freespirits.

I would like to see more Holier than Thou type people, i think they're beautiful.
Weird intense bi-polar chicks, hermits, people brave enough to say I think I'm talkin' to god.
Because yea, everyone is.

also, you mentioned something about polluting the message board, lol
that is silly i think

kinda like being mad at the graffiti on some bathroom wall because the joke was funny to you.

negativity breeds its own kind yea
here is what negativity does-
our tribe is small and we only have so much bread to go around
this wanderer is sick and hungry, if we let him join our tribe there will be less food for us, so lets be unkind, ever so subtley, so that he leave us, because i want that bread for myself.

positivity breeds its own kind too
it says, all good deeds and love are returned ten thousand fold
let us wash his feet, and share our bread
if he is delusional, surely we can straighten him out, if it be that we ourselves are whole.
whole shapes heal unwhole shapes, so they begin to take on the same shape.

it is a tricky trap yes
but one that must be encountered and dealt with
the path is beset on all sides by delusions and test and tribulations

and a life that is free from these things
is one that is surely coming to an end

if you're going to be delusional already, at least have Grand Delusions, rather than trendy common average simple delusions.

i'm disappointed with the piece by alan watts, because apparently he can't distinguish between the fact that there are both people who think they are holier than thou, and those who actually are holier than thou.
it is True that a Whole man (holy man) teaches little girls to read.
meanwhile an unwhole man would abuse them.
are you saying one isn't holier than the other?
because i'm saying yea, one is.
lol


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Icelander]
    #5719064 - 06/06/06 01:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I usually can tell what a persons point is that easily. I don't need alot of verbose detail. )




How can you know what I am about to say? You don't have the knowledge of everything any member can post in the board, so how can you grant yourself the authority of saying otherwise?

Your self-importance will be your demise.  :thumbdown:


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Telepylus]
    #5719277 - 06/06/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You hold good points there, telepylus. My intention was not to drive anyone away from the boards. I think Watts is just speaking about how the realization that we literally are God naturally should make us conclude that so is everyone else. If this is just a dream, we all should end up as One in the end. Therefore the drama isn't as important or evil or ugly as it looks from below. There is an inherit, harmonious order at the top - or core if you'd like.

But yeah, I hear you, and agree with much of what you say.

We should aim to include. And ignoring people by freezing them out of the crowd is a cruel thing to do. It is counterproductive to healing.

BTW i talk to my cat, to the walls and to birds flying over my head.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Fospher]
    #5719309 - 06/06/06 03:05 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Fospher said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I usually can tell what a persons point is that easily. I don't need alot of verbose detail. )




How can you know what I am about to say? You don't have the knowledge of everything any member can post in the board, so how can you grant yourself the authority of saying otherwise?

Your self-importance will be your demise.  :thumbdown:




You mean your self importance don't you? Why do you think I need to read every word you write? If I miss something, who cares? If it's important, I'll get it later.

And like I said, I'm only usually right. Also,I have every right to grant myself anything I want, whether brilliant or dumb. :tongue: So get over it. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (06/06/06 03:06 PM)


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Icelander]
    #5719491 - 06/06/06 03:52 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I know what you are but what am I? :lol:

Maybe instead of reading those Castaneda books, you could just stare at the cover for a little. I mean, you won't know what the author is actually talking about, but with your psychic powers, there's no need right?


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: Icelander]
    #5719492 - 06/06/06 03:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

But, you read all of my posts... right?


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: dorkus]
    #5719566 - 06/06/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I have been accused of having delusions of granduer, and i must admit this is true.

However, I don't think that these 'delusions' are harmful or dangerous because I keep them contained in my mind and don't act on them unless I'm sure the action will benefit those around me. Just because I think I'm an immortal god doesn't mean I think I can go around stealing, raping, and killing. But if I had to die to save an innocent life, I would, and its my faith that would help me do this.

At a point in every acid-head's life, he realizes that he is God or Jesus or whatever. The trick is not to let it get to you, not to let the power control you to the point where it causes you to do things that are destructive to yourself and those around you.

There is nothing wrong with delusions of granduer if it helps you to be a better person. It gets bad when people use their delusions as an excuse to commit evil.

I have often said, enlightenment is the realization that you can do whatever you want, but choose to do the right thing, not to strive with the world, but to use your gifts for good! This is the difference between Jesus and Manson. Both were enlightened by 'delusions' of granduer. Both believed that they were god; the difference between the two was that Jesus saw his power as a way to help others, whereas Manson saw his power as a blank check to do whatever he wanted, no matter what the consequence.

I have many 'delusions' of grandeur. I believe I am a son of God (but not THE son, obviously God has many children). I believe I have the power to heal and enlighten others. I believe I have a liscense to kill and steal. But I never kill anyone, and choose instead to earn my living, instead of feeling entitled to a free ride because of my importance. Many have tried to follow me and worship me, and I have turned them all away and told them to seek God in themselves, not in me. I have healed many people, but I always advise them to get a second opinion from another doctor, not to take my word for it. I don't want to be irresponsible with the people I am trying to help.

Now, like i said, what it all boils down to is, are your 'delusions' (I prefer to call them 'beliefs') helpful or destructive? If a delusion can help you be a better person, I don't see anything wrong with it. If a delusion makes you destructive to yourself or others, you should seek help in ridding yourself of this unhealthy belief.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5719626 - 06/06/06 04:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Good words, DJ.

What I've reacted on, is your quick and judgmental attitude that sometimes shines through. It's like you find comfort in your own suffering because you know that they will be punished and tormented. Instead of seeing them as ignorant. Evil is nothing but ignorance in my opinion, and we would all do better if we constantly recognized our nature as One. Therefore I wouldn't voluneerly inflict suffering upon no-one. Everyone deserves bliss. People who hurt you, are hurting themselves and you probably know that. It might be true at least.

Compassion is where it's at, don't you think?

That is why you should have sympathy for the devil.

Your writings often astonishes me with clarity and I share so many of your thoughts. I would love to see a more gentle, forgiving approach in your posts.

In my opinion you are an assett (sp?) to this community as long as you refrain from spewing hate.

Our essence might be love. Veils of confusion most often hide it from us. Let's try to be forgiving.

Could this be a better, more including way toward union?


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: dorkus]
    #5719666 - 06/06/06 04:37 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

well, its often hard to be a loving person when you are living in a hateful society. I live in Dallas, the 'city of hate'.

I am not a negative person, but often I am confronted by negative energy the likes of which most happy-go-lucky california hippy types have never even dreamed about in their worst nightmares.

Often I feel like Donnie Brasco, a good cop who's been corrupted by his undercover assignment. Its hard to be a good person in an evil world, and there is much evil in my world.

So I apologize for my arrogance and bitterness, but I ask others to realize what I have been through and how much negativity I have had to work through in my life. If you ask me its a goddamned miracle I havent climbed to the top of a belltower with a rifle, I mean what can I say, this is a bad environment for someone like me. The only reason I stay here is because I'm young and don't have the resources to just pack up and move somewhere else. Also, my friends and family are here, and we support eachother, so I wouldn't want to withdraw my support or turn down theirs, because we need eacother. Also, I feel that God put me here for a reason, to be a shining white light in the darkness that is Texas.

people on this board have often accused me of being an asshole, but if you saw someone being tortured on a rack and he were spewing obscenities, would you call him an asshole and tell him to clean out his mouth? No, of course not. You would realize that he is in tremendous pain and take pity on him, especially if you knew he didn't deserve to be tortured. So don't mind my bitter words, they are merely the anguished cries of a person who is caught between a rock and a hard place.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Delusions of grandeur - a tricky trap. [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5719713 - 06/06/06 04:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Raise above it. I'm not saying I could. But maybe you can? Give it a try.

I am very encouraged to see your attitude now.

My experience with holding myself too high has never paid off. Reality has it's way of biting you hard when you do. What if you manage to shift the perspective, and see the darkness you are surrounded by as a grand opportunity to work with forgiveness and acceptance. That would take true courage and willpower. Spread the love like an infection.

I think I know people on these boards that went through worse shit than we could ever think of. Erase personal history and looked ahead.

I hope you keep posting.

But don't come around with all that hell and punishment stuff, please. It spews insecurities for some of us, and I really don't think it is the reality you really wanted to manifest. If you had seen that suffering and knew you inflicted it, and you were seeing this in a blissful state, you would immediately forgive and redeem and save. You know this. You don't want anyone to suffer for you, do you? Why should they?

An eye for an eye is a spiral of hate. All discerning minds can see this.

Peace.


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