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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: Redstorm]
    #11731258 -

Redstorm said:
Quote:
They had the guy's name.  He was on a list.  They didn't check it.  Because there is no such thing as terrorism for this head of the DHS, only man caused disasters.



Is that why or is it because some low or mid-level bureaucrat didn't do his or her job? I haven't read anything that states that high-level officials were ever even aware?



This fish stinks from the head.  It isn't just the DHS.  The State Department fucked that part.  Great Britain got the same warning and immediately put this guy on the no-fly list and revoked his visa.  High level officials make policy, they don't implement it.  Their policy failed. 

I want Napolitano fired because she has no fucking clue.  Just for stating that the system worked she should be fired.
Quote:


Quote:
There also seems to be some evidence that this guy was radicalized by the same Yemeni Imam who was pals with Hassan.  Assassinate him now.  With extreme prejudice.



Because no one will fill in his shoes, right?  The problem is not some schmuck loon; it's the failed state of Yemen which is being filled with radical Somalis from across the water.  Unless the health of both of those states are at least brought out of anarchy, you can kill whoever you want and it won't make the damndest bit of difference.



Do you really think that they have an infinite resource of eloquent and convincing proselytizers?  Do you really think they have an infinite supply of skilled bomb techs?  Every time you kill one you degrade their ability by some amount.


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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11731326 -

Quote:
Do you really think that they have an infinite resource of eloquent and convincing proselytizers?  Do you really think they have an infinite supply of skilled bomb techs?  Every time you kill one you degrade their ability by some amount.



Who says this guy was eloquent? Stick an alienated, brainwashed-since-childhood individual with someone who they feel submissive to, and they'll do anything their superior tells them to.  This is particularly true in the Arab culture where there is an a great deal of reverence paid to elders and anyone who knows a great deal about religion (or pretends to).

About the bomb technicians, since when have their crude instruments been anything that can't be recreated with a week of training someone? Have you seen some of these IED's and car bombs? They are certainly not sophisticated. 

Also, I'm not sure we're dealing with a static, finite supply of radical individuals ready to do violence in the Middle East. Then again, that's just my opinion based on what I've seen and read.

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: Redstorm]
    #11731589 -

Redstorm said:
Quote:
Do you really think that they have an infinite resource of eloquent and convincing proselytizers?  Do you really think they have an infinite supply of skilled bomb techs?  Every time you kill one you degrade their ability by some amount.



Who says this guy was eloquent? Stick an alienated, brainwashed-since-childhood individual with someone who they feel submissive to, and they'll do anything their superior tells them to.  This is particularly true in the Arab culture where there is an a great deal of reverence paid to elders and anyone who knows a great deal about religion (or pretends to).



This asshole, like so many others, was a child of privelege.  He wasn't brainwashed from childhood.  Indeed, his father is disgusted by his radicalization, which began in London and continued in Yemen.  And he wasn't Arab, he was Nigerian.  I believe in Svengalis.  They are charismatic and convincing but there is not an endless supply of people with that talent.  Which doesn't have anything to do with the fact that once you identify one you must take him out.  You don't stop prosecuting murderers because there will always be other murderers, do you?
Quote:
About the bomb technicians, since when have their crude instruments been anything that can't be recreated with a week of training someone? Have you seen some of these IED's and car bombs? They are certainly not sophisticated.



You can't put a car bomb on a plane.  This one was very sophisticated.  Enough explosive sown into his underwear to blow the plane up with some kind of liquid detonator in a syringe?  I'm sorry but talent like that is not common and every one killed is a serious blow.
Quote:


Also, I'm not sure we're dealing with a static, finite supply of radical individuals ready to do violence in the Middle East. Then again, that's just my opinion based on what I've seen and read.



Oh I know there will be more and I suspect that playing whack a mole with underlings and tools is probably like building a sand castle in a rising tide.  But there aren't many with real talent and the more we kill of them the less able their minions will be to effect damage.


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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11732473 -

By the way, in case anyone was wondering why Zappa only gave us a three word quote with no context whatsoever ("the system worked") it's because...

brace yourselves...

nobody could have anticipated...

she was talking about the response to the incident.



Note to people with three-word attention spans: you gotta wait or skip till halfway through the clip.

Has there ever been a right-wing outrage that WASN'T based on something either fabricated or misleading? The "communist" Christmas ornaments... the grade schoolers singing the song about famous African-Americans... Nancy Pelosi's "vanity plane"... hell, even the fucking pimp-and-ho ACORN tapes were dubbed over with fake audio. What's really sad is there's plenty of TRUTHFUL things to be angry at Obama for, and yet these tools shoot themselves in the foot again and again and again grasping at straws. I don't think they're all complete fucking hacks so why do they act like it?

:confused:


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BEST TEAM IN THE UNIVERSE

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: jimbotron]
    #11732536 -

Quote:
she was talking about the response to the incident.



Exactly, duh! That's the whole reason there is such outrage from everyone sane who saw that clip - the clueless bint apparently honestly believes it is the proper job of the DHS to respond to terrorist attacks rather than to prevent them. That is why she has no business being in the position she is in. She just doesn't get it.

The DHS is not a first responder - or at least, it wasn't set up to be. It is not just another fire department hosing down the rubble and pulling corpses from the debris, it is the US government organ charged with preventing that rubble and debris from coming into being in the first place.

How stupid does one have to be not to grasp that simple fact?




Phred


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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: Phred]
    #11732673 -

That wasn't the slant of the Hot Air post linked and you know it.

I think it was a terrible fuckup, I think the proposed restrictions are head-up-the-ass retarded (but after the PATRIOT Act I can't say I'm surprised) and I think that saying "well after the fact we got the word out very quickly to watch out for similar attempts" is buffing a turd, but nobody would go quite so far as to call her a lying retarded bitch for saying that.

But with this curiously truncated quote, they do.

I didn't fall off the fucking turnip truck yesterday. And I don't expect anyone to be honest enough to admit that, yes, they prefer the out-of-context quote because it helps their argument. So I'll say it for them.


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BEST TEAM IN THE UNIVERSE

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: jimbotron]
    #11732807 -

Quote:
That wasn't the slant of the Hot Air post linked and you know it.



No, that is precisely the slant of the Hot Air post, and you know it. Or did you not bother to actually... you know... read the post at Hot Air?

The Hot Air post points out the many ways in which the system was most definitely not a success - at least, not a success by the standards of anyone sane. Napolitano's standard for success seems to be that within an hour and a half, the other planes in the air had been warned there had been an attempt to bring down an airliner with a bomb. Excuse me, but one can accomplish that notification without the gigantic bureaucracy of a DHS.

As for an "out of context quote", what the fuck are you on about? The Hot Air post included not just the same clip you did, but also Napolitano's response to a followup question asked after the segment the clip shows. An even more complete coverage than the clip you seem to feel was sufficient to provide the context of her comment.

There is no way to spin this as some kind of Vast Right Wing Conspiracy to make Napolitano look like the blithering idiot she is. She handled that quite effectively all on her own.




Phred


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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: jimbotron]
    #11733259 -

Just out of curiosity, what about the response do you think was so successful?  That it took 3 days for the Present to say anything?

This is not a person who should be in charge of Homeland Security if she thinks that giving post-mortem speeches is evidence of a successful system.


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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11733986 -

The only reason people were not blown to hell was one reason:
The bomb misfired.


Sadly, there will be a time in which it will not. Get ready to not being able to take anything with you when you fly.

Like your luggage goes on a separate flight and the clothes on your back while in flight, only.....no personal effects....nothing.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #11734497 -

Clothes on your back? That's optimistic.

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11735786 -

> This is not a person who should be in charge of Homeland Security if she thinks that giving post-mortem speeches is evidence of a successful system.

Even better, the morning headlines from the left leaning AP:

Quote:
Two federal agencies charged with keeping potential terrorists off airplanes and out of the country have been without their top leaders for nearly a year.

It took the Obama administration more than eight months to nominate anyone to lead the Transportation Security Administration and the Customs and Border Protection agency.

...

Bogged down with health care reform, the Senate has yet to set a date to hold hearings for the Customs position.

...

"The president is looking for answers on this," Denis McDonough, chief of staff of the White House National Security Council, told reporters Monday in Hawaii, where President Barack Obama is vacationing. McDonough said officials have begun to assemble information related to watch list procedures.  As yet, no one has been named to oversee the watch list review, he said.

McDonough defended the current leadership and downplayed the significance of not having the new TSA administrator confirmed, although he said "the president is eager to have his TSA head on the job."



Who cares about terrorist attacks on US citizens?  Our leaders have priorities, such as ensuring that illegal aliens like Obama's aunt get taxpayer funded health insurance.  Oh, how I love change.  Too busy with his vacation to be bothered with national security issues...


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: Seuss]
    #11736016 -

zappaisgod said:
That it took 3 days for the Present to say anything?



What is your obsession with receiving some sort of meaningless, token gesture from the President? What is it about rushing out immediately with some bullshit political statement that appeals to you so much? I can't imagine any sort of statement that would have any kind of purpose other than, of course, political appeasement of those who feel some sort of need for such empty gestures.

Seuss said:
Too busy with his vacation to be bothered with national security issues...



You work in the Obama administration? Ahh, that's right, you do, and you happen to know precisely what kind of attention he's given the matter, what kind of conversations he's had with which people regarding the matter, what kind of directives and decisions he's made, and exactly how much time he's spent taking action or otherwise deliberating on the matter.

Because we all know that coming out and addressing the common-folk with an empty gesture of acknowledgment and concern regarding a matter translates equally into how much he's "bothered" with an issue, and we all recognize like-wise that the only way a President can administrate is in his office. Administrative action can't happen in Hawaii.
The telegraph wires haven't spanned the Pacific yet, after all, and if he's not sitting in an important-looking office with a solemn face and consoling the American public, he's not doing anything at all!


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #11736028 -

SirTripAlot said:
Sadly, there will be a time in which it will not. Get ready to not being able to take anything with you when you fly.

Like your luggage goes on a separate flight and the clothes on your back while in flight, only.....no personal effects....nothing.



Wow, such melodramatic senselessness. :shocked:

Much more reasonable to assume that, as technology advances, more useful means of scanning individuals and their belongings will be employed. Of course, the real issue is how much security travelers are actually willing to pay for.
For a more expensive ticket, with the technology and standards in place at this moment, more security could be achieved by airports being capable to afford more employees to be more scrutinous in their examinations of passengers and their belongings. Resistance to harmless, full body scans certainly serves as an irrational impediment to airport security as well, one would have to think.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: fireworks_god]
    #11736241 -

> What is your obsession with receiving some sort of meaningless, token gesture from the President?

Wasn't there a campaign promise to have a more open administration?  Are you implying that Obama is meaningless?  You are claiming that informing the public, during the busiest travel period of the year, that he is focused on the problem, is a token gesture?  I guess it is more important to play another round of golf than to reassure the public that the government is focused on travel safety and terrorism.  Of course, perhaps nothing has changed, since the system worked.  :rolleyes:

> Ahh, that's right, you do, and you happen to know precisely what kind of attention he's given the matter, what kind of blah blah blah

Since he hasn't bothered to address my fears, I have to assume that he has ignored the issue completely.  According to the AP report that I quoted above, little to nothing has been changed.  Perhaps if he had made a pointless gesture to keep me from assuming the worse, I wouldn't be so pessimistic.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: Seuss]
    #11736326 -

Seuss said:
Wasn't there a campaign promise to have a more open administration?



A campaign promise to have a more transparent administration equates into the President personally coming forth to say "I'm concerned and we're going to try really hard to keep this from happening again"?

Quote:
  Are you implying that Obama is meaningless?



I'm implying that Obama coming forward immediately after such an eventuality occurs with a general announcement about the matter is retarded. The media informs everyone about what happened and there are other individuals within his administration that have responsibilities for these matters who have roles in communication for the administration. I see nothing that justifies Obama himself making an appearance on the matter so immediately.

Quote:
  You are claiming that informing the public, during the busiest travel period of the year, that he is focused on the problem, is a token gesture?



Yep. "We're scared Obama, come out and tell us everything will be okay! We need your voice to keep us company, Obama!"

Quote:
  I guess it is more important to play another round of golf than to reassure the public that the government is focused on travel safety and terrorism.



Why not? Him saying "Hey, guys, we're really focused" changes the actuality of the situation? :rofl2:

Quote:
Since he hasn't bothered to address my fears, I have to assume that he has ignored the issue completely.



No, no one has to assume that.
Talk about a ridiculous assumption. "Obama didn't tell me what exactly he's doing, so I just have to conclude he hasn't done anything at all!"
That's irrational. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: fireworks_god]
    #11736364 -

And of course when the empty suit finally does get around - three days later - to issuing a statement, it is his usual wrong-headed blather showing his utter cluelessness on the situation - full of such legal niceties and blithe assumptions such as "allegedly" and "suspect" and "isolated extremist".

Christ on a crutch, America is doomed.




Phred


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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: fireworks_god]
    #11736375 -

And you have little knowledge of what yet is to come. My statement may be conjecture, but highly possible.

As a vet who has had demolition training....its not that fucking hard to make a bomb....... so lets take your premise at face value, and the government comes up with this "super dupper" explosive scanning device. And there are plenty of "highly trained" airport security personnel  (without the bag of Doritos):

So it detects that a person has explosives on them.....Boom! Now all the screeners and passengers waiting in line are dead. What next? Oh, lets see...how about if people were screened before they even arrived at the airport? Maybe in their driveways? No Shit?


Even when funds are allocated for these devices the below happens!
Or we can ALWAYS RELY ON OUR GOVERNMENT TO TAKE CARE OF US LIKE SENATOR DODD.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Sen-Dodd-D-Conn-slashed-aviation-security-funding-for-pet-constituency-80209967.html


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (12/29/09 11:47 AM)

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: THC Titan]
    #11736389 -

THC Titan said:
Great, you know your history. I notice in this thread about the Secretary of the DHS that you didn't mention its origin as a executive agency.

Sounds like you are being purposefully obtuse by ignoring the crucial link between contemporary aviation security and the creation of the DHS, which this topic basically revolves around.

Maybe you've already forgotten that the DHS was created specifically in response to airplane-based terrorist attacks on 9/11, and had the ambitious goal of making air travel safe by coordinating intelligence-sharing among government agencies, establishing a no-fly list and other tools, and largely nationalizing the airport security industry.

If you disagree with Napolitano's statement, you probably believe the DHS is at least a partially dysfunctional agency, a conclusion I would support as well. The fact is, despite attempts at creating a comprehensive security system, a) intelligence management is still not as robust as it should be, evidenced by the Christmas Day incident and b) airport security can be thwarted by people that live in mud-brick houses.



plus the creation of DHS stole the letters that most people think still means "department of human services". susan collins is on that committy. ponder that.


--------------------
i don't know, but i know i don't know. i'm sure i know this.  if you can't grow it don't take it

it wants me to get involved, but i won't. if i get involved why would i come back? I'll just set here and watch. it will be better for now to stay here. but i sure would like to get involved...

osmosis is a dandy learning stratidgy.
some say, some ask, some know

i cant spell dele with it
don't fool with me baby, you wouldn't last five minutes in my head

don't laugh at me, that's my job

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: Phred]
    #11736408 -

Phred said:
And of course when the empty suit finally does get around - three days later - to issuing a statement, it is his usual wrong-headed blather showing his utter cluelessness on the situation - full of such legal niceties and blithe assumptions such as "allegedly" and "suspect" and "isolated extremist".



Regardless, faulting him for not responding sooner as though it has any pertinence as anything beyond pandering is silly. :nut:

Quote:
And you have little knowledge of what yet is to come. My statement may be conjecture, but highly possible.



I too think it is unreasonable to assume that there'd never be a risk or possibility of some kind of aviary act of terrorism.
I'm simply thinking its more likely that there will be gradual improvements in security rather than shipping people naked and empty-handed. :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Time for another one, Napolitano, to go [Re: fireworks_god]
    #11736493 -

Sadly the meaningless gestures will entail just that, an increased search of elderly grannies who will no longer be allowed to have a blanket in their laps.  What will not happen is an increased scrutiny of young male Muslims who have spent extensive time in Yemen and whose father's have warned the State Department that their progeny have gone nuts.  Because that would be profiling.


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