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 Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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 Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace  [Re: Xlea321]
#2792997 - 06/14/04 04:49 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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That is a bullshit article. The US never supplied VX nerve gas to Iraq. If they ever had, you can believe there would be more than a single badly-fact checked article in The Sunday Herald two years ago about it. Type in "supplied VX" into any web search engine and see what you get.
pinky
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: Phred]
#2793000 - 06/14/04 04:50 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Credibility is no object when one wants so badly for his beliefs to be true.
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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 10,043
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: GazzBut]
#2793585 - 06/14/04 11:25 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Gee thanks.
Your welcome. Anytime. 
Err Im sure there is some twisted logic in there but I sure cant find. I never claimed Iraq did or didnt have WMD. Before the war I said it had not been proven either way and the evidence did not justify a war It now seems likely that they didnt have WMD and had indeed disarmed as they claimed all along.
If it hadn't been proven either way, then the war was legally justified. If the ability to produce these agents was retained, then they hadn't disarmed as they claimed all along. Throwing away the bombs but keeping the factory isn't disarmament.
Main Entry: dis?arm
Pronunciation: di-'s?rm, -'z?rm, 'di-"s?rm
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English desarmen, literally, to divest of arms, from Middle French desarmer, from Old French, from des- dis- + armer to arm
Date: 14th century
transitive senses
1 a : to deprive of means, reason, or disposition to be hostile b : to win over
2 a : to divest of arms b : to deprive of a means of attack or defense c : to make harmless
intransitive senses
1 : to lay aside arms
2 : to give up or reduce armed forces
They had to prove they'd disarmed. They couldn't as they obviously hadn't disarmed.
If parts or components of WMD compared to complete WMD is no big difference, then although it was claimed Iraq possed WMD when infact it was only the components needed to manufacture them, then that too is no big difference. Therefore, Iraq was guilty of what the Bush admin. accused them of (or no big difference anyway). Can you see the logic yet?
Oh you think I base ny thoughts of some automatic hatred for the US do you? Yeah it seems to be a commonly held view around here by those who are incapable of criticising the US's actions. As far as im concerned that arguement is basically a shortcut to thinking.
I don't think you have some automatic hatred for the US, I just commented on what I saw. When you blaimed the US for supplying Saddam with WMD when it was actually components, but then say Iraq had disarmed because only (except for our lone Sarin artillery round) WMD components have been found, that's hypocrisy. I don't disagree that components are basically the same thing (though I may disagree with the scope most claim), but I apply that belief to both sides of the fence.
We were just one of many countries trying get him in our back pocket. He would have aquired them from someone else had we not given them to him, but that still doesn't excuse it. We shouldn't have. At the time, it was thought he could be controlled or contained. When those were sold to Iraq, Iran was the biggest threat to us in that region. We adopted the policy "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." That's policy is now obviously discredited, and we'll hopefully not make the same mistake again. But if it is indeed our fault, then who better to go and fix the problem?
I'm also quite capable of criticising the US and Bush. Even though I believe what he did was justified, and it seemed like the best decision, I now wonder which Iraq - pre or post war - was/is the bigger threat. Other than his tax cut's, there is virutally nothing Bush has done I agree with. But I see no reason to believe he is dishonest, vengeful, or stupid.
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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine
Edited by HagbardCeline (06/14/04 11:33 PM)
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 Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2793730 - 06/15/04 12:28 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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If parts or components of WMD compared to complete WMD is no big difference, then although it was claimed Iraq possed WMD when infact it was only the components needed to manufacture them, then that too is no big difference. Therefore, Iraq was guilty of what the Bush admin. accused them of (or no big difference anyway). Can you see the logic yet?
The difference being when the US was selling them anthrax, VX nerve gas and Botulism Iraq had an active program. That's a little different from a few tubes laying under someones rosebush 15 years later.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 9 months, 7 hours
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: Phred]
#2793985 - 06/15/04 04:09 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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You are wrong and you know you are.
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Always Smi2le
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CJay
Dark Stranger
Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 931
Loc: Riding a bassline
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#2793996 - 06/15/04 04:19 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Selling the parts is not selling the thing.
So merely having the parts doesn't mean one has the thing.
Therefore one cannot be apportioned blame.
Since one does not have the thing, one only has the parts.
And as you said the parts are not the thing.
(you can replace the words parts with components and thing with WMD if you like)
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 9 months, 7 hours
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: Phred]
#2794042 - 06/15/04 05:23 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Try typing in "us supplied anthrax to iraq" into google. Note it mentions weapon grade anthrax being supplied.
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Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 9 months, 7 hours
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2794057 - 06/15/04 05:36 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
If it hadn't been proven either way, then the war was legally justified.
Utter rubbish. The war was wholly unjustified, you dont go to war on a hunch.
As for giving me dictionary definitions your time would be better spent using dictionary.com to double check your spelling.
Quote:
They had to prove they'd disarmed. They couldn't as they obviously hadn't disarmed.
The US chose not to accept the proof Iraq offered that does not mean the US were right and the Iraqi's were lying.
Quote:
but then say Iraq had disarmed because only (except for our lone Sarin artillery round) WMD components have been found
What components, that we know were intended for a WMD program, have been found? source please.
Quote:
At the time, it was thought he could be controlled or contained.
Rice and Powell said he had been effectivley contained in 2002. Then suddenly everything changed.
Quote:
If parts or components of WMD compared to complete WMD is no big difference, then although it was claimed Iraq possed WMD when infact it was only the components needed to manufacture them, then that too is no big difference. Therefore, Iraq was guilty of what the Bush admin. accused them of (or no big difference anyway). Can you see the logic yet?
Again I ask you to show me where we found components in Iraq, since the time they have claimed they have disarmed, that were to be used in a WMD program.
The components sold by the US, in particular the electronics for the Saad 16 missile program were definitely going to be used in a WMD program, the US were aware of that when they sold them. Weapons grade anthrax sold in the 80's was also obviously going to be used in a weapons program.
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Always Smi2le
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: GazzBut]
#2794516 - 06/15/04 09:37 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Try typing in "us supplied anthrax to iraq" into google. Note it mentions weapon grade anthrax being supplied.
Does not compute...The US never supplied WMD to Iraq...the US never supplied WMD to Iraq...
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 9 months, 7 hours
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#2801557 - 06/17/04 06:18 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I am honest. I do believe just what I said. Did I not, I wouldn't have said it.
No-one can know full well what anyone will do. People say things all the time.
I call bullshit. Anyone with half a brain would realise that selling weapons to somebody knowing full well what the buyer intends to do with them makes the seller partly responsible as they have the power to prevent the event happening, or at least prevent their involvement in the event.
You are just not willing to admit that this applies to the US too. Weak and dishonest.
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Always Smi2le
Edited by GazzBut (06/17/04 08:01 AM)
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: GazzBut]
#2802051 - 06/17/04 10:40 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Weak and dishonest
Trust luv to always deliver 
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: Xlea321]
#2802693 - 06/17/04 02:37 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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And yet you still provide no proof. What a surprise from such a liar.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: GazzBut]
#2802695 - 06/17/04 02:38 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Call bullshit all you like.
It is 100% the responsibility of he or she who commits the actual act.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#2804174 - 06/17/04 11:49 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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It is 100% the responsibility of he or she who commits the actual act.
Then you would have had no problem with Saddamm providing anything to help al-qaeda?
Dishonest.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: Xlea321]
#2804567 - 06/18/04 03:12 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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When you who is unable to refrain fron lying finally learns the meaning of the truth, maybe a claim of dishonesty will mean something. Until then You lack the....
Brains.
Balls.
Or ability to show where I have lied.
Know why the last is true? Because I don't.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (06/18/04 03:31 AM)
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 9 months, 7 hours
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#2804667 - 06/18/04 05:31 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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As Alex said you would have no problem with Iraq supplying weapons to Al qaeda?
You dont mind if syria or iran do the same? Yeah right...you are just wholly incapable of admitting you are wrong.
Edited by GazzBut (06/18/04 05:56 AM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: GazzBut]
#2806037 - 06/18/04 02:29 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Believe what you want. The blame goes to those who use the weapons.
I could have a nuke in my garage. It is harmless until it is used.
Unless it falls on my foot and breaks my toes.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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d33p
Welcome to Violence
Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: GazzBut]
#2806941 - 06/18/04 07:28 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think you guys are really holding luv's words to strictly. You keep trying to apply them to a world of black and white when reality tends to be more a blur of gray.
But i understand where you are coming from when you say he is being hypocritical and stubborn. I don't know about you, but the situation seems to be quite clear to me.
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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.
bang bang
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#2808045 - 06/19/04 01:30 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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The blame goes to those who use the weapons.
Dodging and lying till the end.
Here it is again:
Would Saddam be to blame for supplying Al-qaeda with weapons?
(I'm expecting dishonesty. Surprise me)
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Terrorists look for a path TO peace - but the path IS peace [Re: Xlea321]
#2808310 - 06/19/04 04:32 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Asked and answered. And you wouldn't know dishonesty if it struck you in the face.
You're a liar, short and simple.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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