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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: What is more dangerous to America? Terrorists or Republicans? [Re: Phred]
    #4359681 - 07/01/05 03:22 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Let's move one step at a time.

Your claim:
Quote:

You must have meant to type, " for 'decades' of perceived mistreatment," surely, since the US has never actually mistreated any Muslim country and certainly hasn't mistreated any individual Muslims.




Now it's common knowledge that the CIA facilitated, fomented, aided, what have you, a coup against the democratically elected, and very popular, democratically elected regime in Iran and replaced it with an absolutely brutal and repressive tyrant. What there do you take issue with? I notice you didn't bother addressing Madeleine Albright's quote admitting as much. Perhaps you'd like to retract your statement while you can still save some face? I'd suggest being careful of absolutes in the future.

From The 50th Anniversary of the 1953 Coup in Iran
    ...At this juncture, in

    order to further its interests in the region the US seized the opportunity

    to move in. The US administration under President Eisenhower and its CIA

    chief Allen W. Dulles decided with the help of the CIA network of local

    agents embedded in Iran since before WWII, to overthrow the democratically

    elected government of Prime Minister Mosaddegh. The idea was also to push

    the larger reformist/nationalist movement out of the political scene.

    Kermit Roosevelt, the chief of the Near East Desk of the CIA, himself moved

    to the US embassy in Tehran to direct the operations AJAX from the field.

    The first coup attempt on August 16 failed, and the Shah fled the country.

    People poured into the streets to celebrate the survival of their democracy.

    But the coup engineers were not to give up easily. The next day, Gerald

    Towne of the CIA station in Tehran and George Carroll, a CIA paramilitary

    specialist and author of the military component of the plan, were sent by

    Roosevelt to recruit army garrisons outside Tehran to join the rogue

    officers of the plot. The second attempt on August 19th succeeded in

    bringing down the government of Prime Minister Mosaddegh. The Shah was

    reinstalled to power.

    This was the first time the US overthrew a democratic foreign government. It

    set a precedent for future covert actions to come. After the coup, with the

    support of the US, the Shah consolidated his dictatorial client-regime.

    While the revolution of 1979 released all sorts of aspirations for democracy

    and popular participation, the 25 years of Shah-US co-partnership had caused

    the civil society to suffer and political institutions gradually became

    retarded. As one democracy activist in Iran put it, the United States "has

    consistently failed to understand the deep impact of its suffocation of

    Iranian democracy. The revolution of 1979 was nothing but a delayed reaction

    to the coup of 1953."

    In June of 2000, one significant CIA history report ? the Donald Wilber

    report ? was published by the New York Times. It had been leaked by an

    individual from the CIA. As the main architect of the coup plan, Donald

    Wilber had authored the report some months after the operation. It reveals

    that AJAX was a much more detailed plan of destabilization that ultimately

    ended with the coup. From the report we learn that as part of the pre-coup

    psychological operations, the newspapers and MPs on the payroll of the CIA

    had started a disinformation campaign against Mosaddegh. Also mobs of thugs

    were hired to create social disorder
    ...
I'm interested to see where you're going with your clamoring for specifics (many of which are still classified) -- it is a FACT that the the United States facilitated the overthrow of this government; this isn't a barking moonbat claim, this is a matter of historical record.

To sum it up, here's what this argument comes down to:

a) Your claim is that the United States has never mistreated a Muslim Country
b) The United States did (not-debateable) help in replacing a very popular democratically elected regime in Iran with a brutal dictator that terrorized his people.
c) Your only defense can be that B does not constitute mistreatment. If that is your claim I'll let the denizens of this board pass judgement on whose off their rocker here.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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