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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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i think i know how the universe began..
    #11659752 -

the first question we must ask is "can things happen for no reason" human intuition says no. things happen because something caused it to happen. but i think this logic is all wrong. the thing we do most as humans is try and justify things. put labels on everything and we MUST have an explanation for everything. but why couldnt things happen for no reason? why couldnt something just HAPPEN. i know its easy for you to say "well obviously things just cant happen instantaneously" but i believe they can. just because over our development of mankind we have put the label on events happening that cause other events.  i ask you please step outside the box and just try to believe! if we rewind time to where all the stars and galaxys and planets become whole again before the big bang we see the universe in one huge mass ball we go back further and it begins to get smaller and smaller until it is the single smallest thing that can ever exist. but the question is how did this single dot come about. there was nothing and now there is something. this dot! there is no logical explanation. but if we think illogically (because our own logic is flawed) if we say that the universe could of been created into this single dot just BECAUSE. it did not have a causation. nothing pushed it to happen. it just happened!
moral of the story. we must step outside the box more to determine what is our existence!

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: jesus4jon]
    #11659774 -

it happened because god is good and wise and wanted to you love jesus


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Jesus loves you.

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: andrewss]
    #11659779 -

what if the universe was never created? it just WAS.

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: jesus4jon]
    #11659794 -

hmm...so no cause and effect?

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: smokybarnable]
    #11659808 -

exactly

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: jesus4jon]
    #11659823 -

The universe does have high entropy.

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: jesus4jon]
    #11659836 -

Quote:
that the universe could of been


Could of? That makes no sense. Is English your second language?

Quote:
we must step outside the box


Yes, we must if we want to come up with new cliches.


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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: smokybarnable]
    #11659844 -

Quote:
The universe does have high entropy.


It is like one of those toy airplanes with the rubber band fully wound.


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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: smokybarnable]
    #11659852 -

Quote:
the first question we must ask is "can things happen for no reason" human intuition says no.


why do we say no to this? maybe the way we are raised in the present advancement of science teaches us what causes things, not that they instantly happen.
can you tell me something that is in our knowledge(present fact) that happens for no reason?

Quote:
the thing we do most as humans is try and justify things. put labels on everything and we MUST have an explanation for everything


well of course! why wouldn't we? labels are identity's, if we didn't label a dog a dog then we wouldn't be able to explain what we are talking about could we?
we make names, it's to make communications more specific instead of a guessing game.

Quote:
but why couldnt things happen for no reason? why couldnt something just HAPPEN


can you explain to me what just "happens"?
no cause, no direct link, actual fact?

Quote:
just because over our development of mankind we have put the label on events happening that cause other events. i ask you please step outside the box and just try to believe! if we rewind time to where all the stars and galaxys and planets become whole again before the big bang we see the universe in one huge mass ball we go back further and it begins to get smaller and smaller until it is the single smallest thing that can ever exist.


right.:rolleyes:

Quote:
but the question is how did this single dot come about?


this is still a question that puzzles us today.
we only understand so much.


Quote:
there was nothing and now there is something. this dot! there is no logical explanation. but if we think illogically (because our own logic is flawed) if we say that the universe could of been created into this single dot just BECAUSE. it did not have a causation. nothing pushed it to happen. it just happened!
moral of the story. we must step outside the box more to determine what is our existence!


umm, i hope you do realize that the big bang is a theory right?

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: elementswrath]
    #11659866 -

I attempted to program an irrational circuit a few years ago and failed.

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: jesus4jon]
    #11659960 -

jesus4jon said:
the first question we must ask is "can things happen for no reason" human intuition says no. things happen because something caused it to happen. but i think this logic is all wrong. the thing we do most as humans is try and justify things. put labels on everything and we MUST have an explanation for everything. but why couldnt things happen for no reason? why couldnt something just HAPPEN. i know its easy for you to say "well obviously things just cant happen instantaneously" but i believe they can. just because over our development of mankind we have put the label on events happening that cause other events.  i ask you please step outside the box and just try to believe! if we rewind time to where all the stars and galaxys and planets become whole again before the big bang we see the universe in one huge mass ball we go back further and it begins to get smaller and smaller until it is the single smallest thing that can ever exist. but the question is how did this single dot come about. there was nothing and now there is something. this dot! there is no logical explanation. but if we think illogically (because our own logic is flawed) if we say that the universe could of been created into this single dot just BECAUSE. it did not have a causation. nothing pushed it to happen. it just happened!
moral of the story. we must step outside the box more to determine what is our existence!



just going to point out that the big bang doesnt really have size and shape like a ball or dot.


Anyway the universe could have occured due to nothing, yeah. Its all possible. I think all theories about where the universe came from are ludicrous. There are many possibilities and it doesnt really matter which is the case. The universe could have come from nowhere, in which case nothing matters full stop, ultimately. so therefor meaning in our lives may as well be based to an extent in pragmatics, and placing meaning in the creation of the universe is pointless because it is one of the least pragmatic pursuits of all. Or alternatively this universe was created by some other unknowable universe. In that case, it is clearly not our purpose to discover how the universe came into being. that might be a pursuit for beings in the 'higher universe'. If we were designed, we were not designed to determine things like 'what happened before the earliest point in this universe?'


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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11660077 -

Quote:
Anyway the universe could have occured due to nothing, yeah. Its all possible. I think all theories about where the universe came from are ludicrous. There are many possibilities and it doesnt really matter which is the case. The universe could have come from nowhere, in which case nothing matters full stop, ultimately. so therefor meaning in our lives may as well be based to an extent in pragmatics, and placing meaning in the creation of the universe is pointless because it is one of the least pragmatic pursuits of all. Or alternatively this universe was created by some other unknowable universe. In that case, it is clearly not our purpose to discover how the universe came into being. that might be a pursuit for beings in the 'higher universe'. If we were designed, we were not designed to determine things like 'what happened before the earliest point in this universe?'


Please define nothing and nowhere.

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: smokybarnable]
    #11661057 -

they are the absence of object or position


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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. *DELETED* [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11661154 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: "

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11661212 -

Our universe is only a segment of Creation

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: morrowasted]
    #11662362 -

What I don't get about big bang theory is if the universe was condensed to a point and "Boom!". Then...what was outside of the point, to say. What was on the otherside of the condensed universe? Empty Space? But there wouldn't be space because the universe hadn't existed yet!


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Just let it all go..
Laugh at the world and be free,
Then Just breathe, Just breathe...
*Blackdove*

Click for Catnip!
:peace: :nyan: :peace:

Edited by Blackd0ve420 (12/16/09 01:48 PM)

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: morrowasted]
    #11662388 -

Indeed, the assumption that everything must have a cause is just that, an assumption. Quantum mechanics found that matter at the most fundamental level is not explainable by causes. There is a randomness that is not reducible to any cause. The randomness looks like being generated from nothingness, because nothingness has no preference.

Physicist Victor Stenger derived all physical laws from nothingness in his book Comprehensible Cosmos. The main part of the book is for the educated layman and there is also a 100+ pages of mathematical appendices understandable for undergraduate students of physics. The main idea is that physical laws are based on space and time symmetries, and nothingness is the only perfectly symmetrical state. It satisfies all possible symmetries. The laws of physics look like they came from nothing and they allow for the state of nothingness to pass spontaneously to a state of something (non-zero matter/energy). As another physicist, Lawrence Krauss, said: "In quantum mechanics when you have nothing you always get something." Also, it is now almost confirmed by astronomical observations that the total energy of the universe is zero, which would be the amount conserved from the beginning when there was nothing. (the positive energy of matter is compensated by the negative potential gravitational energy)

Causality is just a secondary phenomenon that occurs as material particles generated from nothing interact with each other. The interactions are governed by the laws of conservation of energy and momentum, which in turn are the result of spacetime symmetry with respect to laws of motion - laws of motion are the same everywhere in space and time.

Here is some online material on this topic, from Victor Stenger's webpage:

Where Do the Laws Of Physics Come From? - Powerpoint Presentation

A Scenario For a Natural Origin Of Our Universe

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: litewave]
    #11662591 -

Great post. Such interesting stuff this speculation. I can't understand but a little of it and it's pretty fucking hard to take for a being that is invested in being super special or immortal.

But just from my own obeservation of mundane life I have also come to this conclusion.
Indeed, the assumption that everything must have a cause is just that, an assumption. Matter at the most fundamental level is not explainable by causes. There is a randomness that is not reducible to any cause. The randomness looks like being generated from nothingness, because nothingness has no preference.:thumbup:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: Icelander]
    #11662604 -

Quote:
because nothingness has no preference


I prefer chocolate to vanilla.


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Re: i think i know how the universe began.. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11662843 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
that the universe could of been


Could of? That makes no sense. Is English your second language?

Quote:
we must step outside the box


Yes, we must if we want to come up with new cliches.


cool thanks for adding to this discussion


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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