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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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 Spirituality and Pragmatism 
#3338830 - 11/09/04 07:40 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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I contend that all ethical and spiritual teachings should have a solid pragmatic foundation; i.e. they are designed to be used to better one's state of affairs in THIS world, not to go off into some escapist world where blue light beams enter one's forehead.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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 Re: Spirituality and Pragmatism [Re: Swami]
#3338834 - 11/09/04 07:43 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Who's to say escapism can't better one's state of affairs in this world?
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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 schmektron
Vainglorious
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 263
Loc: Wrapped in an imbroglio
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: Spirituality and Pragmatism [Re: Swami]
#3338839 - 11/09/04 07:45 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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its a pink light, damnit!
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: Spirituality and Pragmatism [Re: Swami]
#3338847 - 11/09/04 07:49 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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what philisophical ideas fits this design? if we are to judge an idea's validity based on usefullness and practicality, then aren't we travelling into a realm where one size does not fit all?
in other words, practical for whom? one thing that can benefit you could possibly hurt another. While this happens all the time anyway, your contention lies on usefulness which varies from person to person
"I contend that all ethical and spiritual teachings should have a solid pragmatic foundation; i.e. they are designed to be used to better one's state of affairs in THIS world, not to go off into some escapist world where blue light beams enter one's forehead. "
generalization?
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Spirituality and Pragmatism [Re: kaiowas]
#3338869 - 11/09/04 07:57 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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If one meditates, prays, does yoga, visualizations and entheogens and their relationships are unsatisfactory and unimproved in spite of claimed access to mystical states, and they are unhappy with their living situations, then what can be said of these practices or the person doing them?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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NariusFractal
Sat Chit Ananda
Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 804
Loc: USA
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Re: Spirituality and Pragmatism [Re: Swami]
#3339266 - 11/09/04 09:43 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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that it's a process and no one is perfect? That maybe you should check back in 20 years. Or better, worry about yourself.
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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: Spirituality and Pragmatism [Re: Swami]
#3339267 - 11/09/04 09:44 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
I contend that all ethical and spiritual teachings should have a solid pragmatic foundation; i.e. they are designed to be used to better one's state of affairs in THIS world, not to go off into some escapist world where blue light beams enter one's forehead.
I agree, and add that even within the realm of spiritual pragmaticism, there is still a vast space of subjectivity and flexibility - of course.
To use a botanical analogy; think of perennial plants as the practical plants, and non-perennial plants as the fleeting, escapist plants.
The Rose, although intricately designed with vibrant colors and easily captivating appearances, never makes it past fall or through Winter. It thrives only in the fair-weather seasons, where just about any plant can easily thrive in.. Yet, as Life's seasons become increasingly challenging through the heat of the sun in the Summer, and the chilly dark Fall to the harsh coldness of the Winter... they cease to thrive and exist.
Take the ever-lasting Pine tree in comparison.
This tree is there when the Rose peaks out from the ground in early Spring...
It is there when the Spring fully blossoms in the Late Spring and Early Summer..
It is there when the Rose endures the glaring heat under the sun throughout late Summer...
It is there when the Rose begins to shed its once lustrous petals..one by one...
It is there when the Rose shrivels up, dries up.. and falls in Death..
It is there when the snow covers all what once used to be a bed of vibrant, eager life of botanical-beings.
...And it will still be there... for many, many, many more generations of Roses and non-perennial plants..
Perennial Truth and Pragmatic Spirituality will always be Here-Now, and useful through ALL "seasons" of Life.
The flexibility and subjectivity comes in when you realize that you're not limited to a choice of just being a Pine tree and a Rose; there are THOUSANDS of Perennial plants that you have the choice to "be"!
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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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":I contend that all ethical and spiritual teachings should have a solid pragmatic foundation; i.e. they are designed to be used to better one's state of affairs in THIS world, not to go off into some escapist world where blue light beams enter one's forehead. "
i agree absolutely. I think the vast majority of spiritual teachings i have encounterd definetly fit this criteria. I have yet to study a spiritual teaching that does not enhance control/enjoyment over regular waking life, which is not to say they dont exist.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Spirituality and Pragmatism [Re: NariusFractal]
#3339395 - 11/09/04 10:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
sheister said:
that it's a process and no one is perfect? That maybe you should check back in 20 years. Or better, worry about yourself.
Then we should expect that we'll never hear you complain about your surroundings and Dade City, FL again?
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Spirituality and Pragmatism [Re: Swami]
#3339428 - 11/09/04 10:26 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hmmmmmmmmmm,
I havn't followed any to a tee, and what has grabbed my attention has gone through serious trial and error custum modifications.
Damn the realms of spirit and the spirit self is so vast not to mention the HUGE difference between our individual journeys and make up. How can one size fit all to a tee? No two people will apply them the same or even have the same abilities for applying them and getting something from them.
Stop and realise how many people can be taught handwriting by the same person and yet, some will write better then others and no matter what, no two will have the same hand writing. Is it the fault of the instruction? No, we are just all different, with different abilities for learning and doing and getting results.
I've come to a place where I demand a custom fit!!!!!!!! efficiency!
Sooooooooooooooo I figure, who knows me better, what I respond to, how I learn the best, need for growth, yada yada then my own self who has been through it all. I figure, when I meditate to seek inner guidance, I tune in with my future self who has traveled my roads, navigated all of the pit falls, forks, dead ends, etc. I intend to align with that self that knows the smoothest, most efficient path through where I need to be for whatever growth and purpose I came here for.
After all, ya know you can trust your higher self.
I think the ultimate spiritual practice is living life itself.
Let new ideas and incentives spring up, act on them with passion and have fun, then take time to reflect on how it all went, do some TWEEKING (pruning away what didn't work and reinforce what did), then take a rest to recharge and rejuvinate and go at it again with new ideas and intentions.
Be like the seasons of change and run through the cycles. There is no greater spiritual teacher, or format or guide, then life itself and your own self.
IN MY HUMBLE OPINION OF COURSE. 
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 34,988
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Re: Spirituality and Pragmatism [Re: Swami]
#3339596 - 11/10/04 12:05 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
If one meditates, prays, does yoga, visualizations and entheogens and their relationships are unsatisfactory and unimproved in spite of claimed access to mystical states, and they are unhappy with their living situations, then what can be said of these practices or the person doing them?
a story of Job (pronounced jobe) illustrates exactly what you are talking about.
a story of socrates (pronounced socratese) illustrates your position here.
Job would have prefered that the outcome of all his efforts had magical expression in his life, but many things which were out of his control did not work out. He still acted upon his best understanding of what was good conduct for a man (- the practices).
Socrates expressed an appreciation of clear dependencies and had little patience for involvement with things that did not connect with the betterment of man's lot in this world.
Would Socrates have criticized Job for his love of G-d? he certainly would have avoided any discussion of G-d directly. Woud Job have had terms that Socrates would have connected with? Maybe empathy or sympathy - not a bad start.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer
Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: Spirituality and Pragmatism [Re: Swami]
#3340716 - 11/10/04 09:11 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Does having certain spiritual beliefs for the sake of feeling good qualify as practical?
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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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NariusFractal
Sat Chit Ananda
Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 804
Loc: USA
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Re: Spirituality and Pragmatism [Re: Sclorch]
#3340968 - 11/10/04 10:31 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sclorch said:
Quote:
sheister said:
that it's a process and no one is perfect? That maybe you should check back in 20 years. Or better, worry about yourself.
Then we should expect that we'll never hear you complain about your surroundings and Dade City, FL again?
exactly 
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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Spirituality and Pragmatism [Re: NariusFractal]
#3341258 - 11/10/04 11:38 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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again, almost all spiritual instruction i have encounterd in quite alot of reading has been very practical if properly applied.
be aware. be in the moment. trust in yourself. Be thankfull for what you have. Do not do unescessary harm. Recognize your ego and control it. control your emotions rather than vice versa. Do not be caught up in regret. Be joyous.
And i would even argue that spiritual techniques that do nothing other than allow you to acess a pleasant la-la land of blue beams and sparkly starships have value as well. If it makes you happy without impairing your ability to function outside of that world, that alone is pragmatic enough.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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