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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: zouden]
    #10868310 -

What is before the beginning?
Science doesn't care.
And what is after the end?
Science doesn't care.
And why is it always nonsense,
that I feel something there?


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and the hippos were boiled in their tanks

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #10868313 -

What about my worth Orgone? You are the gate keeper to this forum, after all, wanna let me in?

BTW  - I am as serious as you have ever known me to be.

:uptosomething: ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #10868322 -

Or not.


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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #10868326 -

Quote:
I believe that the universe is infinite, in accordance with the theory that matter cannot be created or destroyed.


How does that follow? Wouldn't it make more sense to say that there's a finite amount of matter that has always existed?


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #10868354 -

Quote:
What about my worth Orgone?


That has yet to be determined. The Council of Elders will conatact you at the appropriate time.



Do a search on The Inner Circle if you want to know more. Go back about 10 years.


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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: zouden]
    #10868549 -

zouden said:
Quote:
I believe that the universe is infinite, in accordance with the theory that matter cannot be created or destroyed.


How does that follow? Wouldn't it make more sense to say that there's a finite amount of matter that has always existed?


Zouden wins. 


I have no fucking clue what happened "before" the big bang, but that doesn't disprove the big bang.

"Time" is too fucking weird to satisfiabley define via Wikipedia anyways.  If it didn't exist before the Big Bang, or the Big Bang set the "arrow" of time (another cosmological theory), then who knows what that means for your theory. 

I used to wonder how something could come from nothing.  I don't remove God from the mix completely, but when I read Elegant Universe and other physics books for laymen it gave me new concepts of "reality" that fuzed my "God" with "Physics." 

I'm just rambling.


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:huxleyfacepalm:


Plant Trees

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: Nymphaea]
    #10868581 -

Drug-induced meanderings are perfectly acceptable here. :yesnod:


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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: vaportrail]
    #10868611 -

Quote:
What is before the beginning?
Science doesn't care.
And what is after the end?
Science doesn't care.



Wow, that is very deep to tell us that a method has no empathy.  :sherlock:


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (08/16/09 03:29 AM)

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10868635 -

Quote:
Evidence: Since absolute non-existence is merely an impossible hypothetical scenario, the Universe has always existed, and is also therefore infinite.




Evidence lets look up what that means.

evidence
Noun
1. something which provides ground for belief or disbelief:

You bring none.


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A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: virus1824]
    #10868651 -

I guess it takes too much BEING HERE NOW to respond to the person to whom you are addressing. :failboat:


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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10869032 -

Ive said this before and I am going to pop it into this thread:

Time can be both infinite, as well as 'bound'. We merely say that the boundary that we conceive is not the real boundary, rather it is our best representation of it.

Time does not have to have a 'start' for there to still be a 'time 0' which is not preceded. The 'time 0' does not exist... But every point in time that we can WRITE about with SYMBOLS is preceded by another point in time. Thus to 'summarise' the concept of the 'start' of time (which doesnt actually exist but is still necessary for our human brains to deal with), we use the symbol '0', which is the same as 0.000(infinite 0's)001
The universe can be both infinite

But there can also be a 'start'

its just that the 'start' doesnt really exist

it has to do with the fact that we think of 'seconds' and 'hours' as stable quantities that can be added together or subtracted. And so we think of 'infinite seconds' and how, if the universe was trully infinite, then we could keep counting up these seconds and surpass any estimate of the start or end of the universe

but the universe does not do arithmetic

rather, it is all bound by fractal relations

the closer to the 'start' of time, the more the 'seconds' hold... so the infinitely small periods of time that exist at near time 0 can actually be the same as longer periods of time later on... but when looked at from a HUMAN BRAIN EXISTING IN A SPECIFIC MOMENT IN TIME, it seems like there is a discrepancy


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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #10869479 -

EdgeChaos said:
This is an understood truth in the scientific community.



Why don't you just quote a bible verse? it would be just as convincing.

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: Poid]
    #10869660 -

Poid said:
EdgeChaos said:
Nowhere in big bang theory does it claim that the universe did not exist before the event.

It simply "expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past, and continues to expand to this day."


If there was a finite time in that past, then that means that the universe was non-existent before it.


toys in the attic said:
Non-existence is a term which refers to something we cannot comprehend.


Maybe we cannot fully comprehend every single aspect of it, but obviously we each know what it is since we're talking about it, so this means we actually do comprehend it to a certain degree.


How so? It only implies that our current universe did not exist at the time. There are many beliefs that our universe is not the first and it will not be the last. How does one tiny particle with an infinite mass and density constitute as non-existence? Surely its presence implies existence does it not?


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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: zouden]
    #10869674 -

zouden said:
Quote:
I believe that the universe is infinite, in accordance with the theory that matter cannot be created or destroyed.


How does that follow? Wouldn't it make more sense to say that there's a finite amount of matter that has always existed?


The problem is simple, yet we still may suffer from an unrefined term structure.  So first a few definitions.

Finite:When something has this quality, it will always have a point of beggining and a point of end.
Dictionary.com defines it as;

–adjective
1. having bounds or limits; not infinite; measurable.
2. Mathematics.
a. (of a set of elements) capable of being completely counted.
b. not infinite or infinitesimal.
c. not zero.
3. subject to limitations or conditions, as of space, time, circumstances, or the laws of nature: man's finite existence on earth.

Premise: A thing(universe) that has a quality of being impossible to create and impossible to destroy, has no beggining and no end. Finite, can be best metaphorically represented as a set of elements, elements is no different to things in this definition. A set of elements has the quality of beggining and ending. IE. 10 Apples begins at the first apples and ends at the last. Take one apple away and destroy it by consuming it and you have destroyed the set that was created previously into a set of 9.

Reasoning: On behalf of this definition and the premise, the universe and the matter which exists in it, cannot possibly be a set of elements, because a set of elements has to be created and has to have the quality of being destroyed, in order for it to exist as such. Otherwise it will be best described as an infinite structure IE. A set of 10 apples can only exist, if you have experienced a higher or lower numbered set, of which you can compare the present set of 10 with. This is because a distinction such as 'a set of 10' only exists in relation to another present set, in order to appear distinct. A distinction is basically like bad and good, if all that exists is good and no bad, then we would never be able to distinguish and draw up a mental distinction of good, because distinguishment relies on there existing two or more objects of which one can see a noticable difference too.

Resolve

Considering that a finite object, has the quality of being a set of distinct elements and that this set has a beggining(creation) and an end(destruction), how can the universe be finite, when it has the quality of never having a beggining/creation or an end/destruction.

Question:  If the universe cannot be create or destroyed, has no beginning or end, then how can it be considered 'a set of elements(things/objects)' or Fininite, when this adjective has the quality of having a beginning or end?

Prove to me that 'a set of elements(things/objects)' does not need to have a beginning or end and I will believe your conclusion.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: toys in the attic]
    #10869966 -

toys in the attic said:
EdgeChaos said:
This is an understood truth in the scientific community.



Why don't you just quote a bible verse? it would be just as convincing.



Ever heard of the theory of gravity? It is an understood truth in the scientific community.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". I'll be damned if that didn't create a BIG BANG.


Alpha, just as you said before this argument is stupid and you nor poid will change anyone's minds with flawed logic. You are in fact not astrophysicist's and you logic is just as valid (and flawed) as mine.

This is like retards fighting over a cookie when they live in the cookie house.

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #10870019 -

EdgeChaos said:
Ever heard of the theory of gravity? It is an understood truth in the scientific community.



Well the bible says eating food is good. Score 1-1.

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10870142 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
What is before the beginning?
Science doesn't care.
And what is after the end?
Science doesn't care.



Wow, that is very deep to tell us that a method has no empathy.  :sherlock:


Not too deep, because it should contrast the difference between a person and a thing.

However, I confess that I have doubts as to whether we find that distinction in the theory.  It is a conviction of mine, that everything a human can create is a reflection of himself.  When it comes to a theory about the supposed beginning of time, I compare it to the personal beginning of time that each of us experienced during the process from which we were created.

What happens during the creation of a new mind?

Perhaps the theory is nothing more than a glorified autobiographical projection of the beginning of a conscious existence, rather than an objective construction about the universe.

Ludicrous perhaps, but I have to wonder. Anyway, what is scientific about the Big Bang Theory?  It seems the sort of thing that humans can only guess at.  I might as well say the Universe rolled out of bed one morning.


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and the hippos were boiled in their tanks

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: vaportrail]
    #10870170 -

Quote:
Ludicrous perhaps, but I have to wonder. Anyway, what is scientific about the Big Bang Theory?  It seems the sort of thing that humans can only guess at.  I might as well say the Universe rolled out of bed one morning.


I would say that cosmology is not your calling. Perhaps pastry chef...


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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #10870178 -

I was watching a documentary last night and leading physicists admitted that the cosmological constant and dark matter may show that science doesn't understand gravity as well as it thinks it does.

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: toys in the attic]
    #10870232 -

Wow, how amazing that science is plastic and the knowledge changes with the addition of new data, hence the term, 'theory'. You really exposed the sham that science is right there.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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