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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Tibetan]
#10622930 - 07/04/09 11:57 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tibetan said: Death anxiety is made up by atheists to try and explain religion.
Not really. But the fact that the earliest religions did not seem to be very concerned with an afterlife does seem to undermine their point about it being the origin of religion. To the extent that early tribal religions were concerned with death, it was more about being afraid of angering their dead ancestors than worrying about their own death.
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: zouden]
#10623350 - 07/05/09 02:31 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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My death anxiety has fixed up since much of my psychedelic experience.
I have died.
what does that mean? It simply means that I accepted my own death. I thought I was dead or at least that my life was over. It doesn't have to mean anything other than that because now I realise that every moment of life is a gift of circumstance, whereas beforehand I still thought of death as some fault of mine. During my experience of death, I accepted the fault and reconsidered who I really was my whole life and what all my efforts had gained me. At the time I was sort of suspended in a dark void surrounded by ribbons of light.
It wasnt like as soon as I got back, I was no longer afraid of death. I was mighty glad to be alive though! and after putting a bunch of experiences together and realising that none of the brilliance of my experiences could be matched by any human concept or creation, I realised (not for the first time of course) that basically any human conception of death is a crackpot theory and can only possibly be used as a means of motivating yourself in the present.
To say that consciousness ends when death occurs is highly presumptuous. Although we have no reason to believe in heaven or hell, we also have no reason to believe that it is the end. just like that.
The reason for this is that we have no idea how consciousness can arise from physical properties and thus we cannot suggest that physical properties alone are responsible for consciousness, even though we can indeed assert that the physical body and brain is necessary for conscious experience to explore THIS universe.
But people always want to say WHAT THE CASE IS. they want to say what happens when you die. you go here or there or something happens or nothing happens or you reincarnate.
No one knows what happens when you die. Stop trying to work it out! Pay attention to life instead. You might just end when you die. But if for whatever reason you were placed, or chose, to come to earth, then you are wasting your opportunity while you blunder over unnatainables
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Tibetan
California Raisin
Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 100
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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Silversoul]
#10623421 - 07/05/09 03:18 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Tibetan said: Death anxiety is made up by atheists to try and explain religion.
Not really. But the fact that the earliest religions did not seem to be very concerned with an afterlife does seem to undermine their point about it being the origin of religion. To the extent that early tribal religions were concerned with death, it was more about being afraid of angering their dead ancestors than worrying about their own death.
My post was mocking this absurdity.
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: zouden]
#10623482 - 07/05/09 03:55 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said: Not necessarily; there's a difference between survival instinct and fear of death. I think animals have an instinct to survive, but they don't fear death the way humans do. What's the evolutionary advantage in being scared of something you can't stop?
Why would there be an evolutionary advantage?
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
Registered: 08/25/06
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Loc: Dirty South, NJ
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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: zouden]
#10623621 - 07/05/09 06:20 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said: Not necessarily; there's a difference between survival instinct and fear of death.
To us... because we can comprehend the details.
Fear of death is just a human brain's interpretation of the natural survival instinct.
If you could give an animal instant human intelligence, I think he would admit to being "afraid" of dying, and that he'd do almost anything to live.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Yes, so fear of death is something that humans have because we're aware of our own mortality. I was just responding to your statement that it's a common evolved trait.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: zouden]
#10625127 - 07/05/09 02:36 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said: Yes, so fear of death is something that humans have because we're aware of our own mortality.
You're saying animals aren't afraid of dying? How do you explain the fact that rats squirm in fear when being consumed by snakes?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Poid]
#10625503 - 07/05/09 03:52 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wouldn't you squirm when being swallowed by a snake?
As I said earlier, there's "survival instinct", which all animals have, and there's "lying awake at night anxious about your own mortality". I doubt animals do that, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: zouden]
#10625659 - 07/05/09 04:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes, because I would be afraid for my life; rats are obviously afraid of something when squirming around in the jaws of a snake, if it's not death, then what do you suppose it is?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
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Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Poid]
#10625677 - 07/05/09 04:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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But that's not what the thread is about. The OP said:
Quote:
Silversoul said: I've heard a lot of you say that religion is just a coping mechanism for death anxiety. I'm curious as to whether or not you yourself experience death anxiety. If so, how do you cope with it? Or do you just lie awake in fear of death and lack any means of coping with it?
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: zouden]
#10625852 - 07/05/09 05:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said: As I said earlier, there's "survival instinct", which all animals have, and there's "lying awake at night anxious about your own mortality". I doubt animals do that, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Wait, for some reason I unconsciously ignored the emboldened sentences there; I'm on par with what you're saying here!
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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