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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Lakefingers]
    #10607955 -

When it's your time and you find out you're going to die, are you going to die sad and scared or would you rather accept it and go out in peace?

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Re: Question For Atheists *DELETED* [Re: blazenn]
    #10607964 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Lakefingers]
    #10607970 -

"Processes of dying"? What do you mean?


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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Silversoul]
    #10609301 -

I used to have alot of depressive thoughts about it (no meaning, no purpose, no god)...Then I tried acid and found love----literally...

Now I don't believe that people really ever die, you just become some reincarnated form of something...

The universe is just energy, energy only changes forms...its doesn't disappear...You could call the universe "god" but that word has just been tainted and has such a negative connotation i would rather not so i say i'm an atheist...plus it gets under peoples' skin when i say that and that makes me smile


honestly death is exciting and interesting to me (I mean what the fuck will happen its bound to be amazing)...however, the process of dying is still a bitch because pain sucks but you get the point


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If you're frightened of dying and  you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.

Edited by JackofSpades (07/02/09 01:40 PM)

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: blazenn]
    #10609330 -

Quote:
blazenn said: At that point I accepted it, and was okay with the fact that I was about to die.


Indeed; psychedelics can be great tools for working with death anxiety.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Silversoul]
    #10609336 -

Remember what it was like before you were born? No, well that's exactly how it'll be when you die.

So why worry about it?

That's how I cope. :shrug:

It's not death, but the thought of NON EXISTANCE that bothers me... but I just think of how much fun I'm having now, and making the most of my time!!

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Silversoul]
    #10610069 -

My experience of a world with humans tells me I am not unique, and thus although my sense of self seems to condensate in a personal subjective experience, I cannot deny without going into severe scepticism or solipsism that any human has a similar sense of self. Going further, this experience of a world populated with life comes to me by recognizing the "inertia" of life therein, of that which seems to will and to know even though, however deep we physically look, the causal chain is never perceptibly broken. In a way, both phenomenology and the phenomenology of abstraction upon empirical phenomenology can mesh arbitrarily well, maybe asymptotically well, with the thing in itself. Hence, again, I cannot deny that not only is there many senses of self across humanity, but most probably across all myriad forms of life, although both way they seem inaccessible to me.

Accordingly, there is nothing to close such a sense of self from below at birth, nor from above at death. Both are open boundaries at best; it is not an on/off switch. It is in some sense to say that life is topological first, for, in addition, there is no clear boundary to claim the world as purely within or purely without, only the world is that which is close, that which expresses closeness in opposition to isolation. On the other hand, it is rather these many senses of self which, as appreciably undeniable as they are, are topologically far, disconnected from my neighbourhood, inaccessible to me. In its bare state, a life never experiences another life's sense of self, although it can come as close as it wants to phenomena arising from another life experiencing the world. I may measure neural correlate, or bodily functions, or neurotransmitter concentrations, in real time if necessary, yet that doesn't bring me closer to someone else's experience of self. In other words, my "fingers" may reach as deep as they can throughout the phenomenological world and thereby reveal phenomena as rich as necessary to account for the Other's sense of self, lest the causal chain be broken, but nothing seems to lay above senses of compassion, sympathy, hatred or the popular experience of "oneness", that would indicate a common neighbourhood directly connecting selves.

In that sense, life in birth is that which brings you as far as possible from others, and life through death, marked by a complete dissolution of the sense of self, brings you as close as ever to every other selves. Life is what occurs when you pump inertia into a topologically isolating substrate; the world isolates itself in its parts as a relatively faithful representation, or memory, of closeness relations therein.

I "am" not but everything apart, and will become once it's over. I may bring myself consciously or unconsciously to anxiety, or I may be brought to it by worldly factors, but such anxiety, apart from biology, from the sheer bodily pain and panic it might stir in me, isn't any different from the anxiety of thirst, hunger or voiding. Anxiety roots in the very inertia of life, it forms a direct expression of the will to live at the scale of human experiences, yet I need not, it seems, invariably act on it, the same way I need not immediately fetch myself a glass of water the moment thirst comes around. Life has inertia, and so although it shapes my motivations, mood and actions, death anxiety, or any anxiety, always compete or cooperate with everything else that goes on in life. Hence it only becomes necessary to act on it by various coping mechanism once you've stopped long enough to steer most of the inertia towards the experience of anxiety itself. Meditations upon death could thus be compared to a gravity assist; come to it with enough inertia and you'll leave with more; come with too few and you'll crash on death, forcing you to act by coping with it, whence, in particular, neurosis, phobia, some cases or religiosity, &c.

In the end, we must not fear anxiety lest we fear fear itself, hence the false premise in your question that there is something necessary to be done, that there is a necessary stance to take. My advice; live with it forever, and live with the fact that you have to live with it forever. Follow the warrior's path and accept that religions, neurosis and intentional coping are but irrelevant losing battles, little battles within battles within battles which in the end only served to waste your time before crashing irreverently right before your eyes.

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Silversoul]
    #10614206 -

Silversoul said:
I've heard a lot of you say that religion is just a coping mechanism for death anxiety.  I'm curious as to whether or not you yourself experience death anxiety.  If so, how do you cope with it?  Or do you just lie awake in fear of death and lack any means of coping with it?


Exercise, good diet, herbal mood elevators, meditation.  I try to accept that I will die one day.  I also try to accept death anxiety itself, fighting the anxiety just makes it worse.  I stay busy and enjoy life.  I try not to focus too much on time.

Between all of the above, I've reduced my death anxiety around 95% I would guess.  That's on the conscious level anyway, on an unconscious level who the fuck knows.

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: deCypher]
    #10614633 -

deCypher said:
Quote:
blazenn said: At that point I accepted it, and was okay with the fact that I was about to die.


Indeed; psychedelics can be great tools for working with death anxiety.


It almost seems as if the transition from life into death can be practiced with consumption of Salvia and DMT.

Of course, no one knows what will come after death, if anything at all, but these drugs surely mimic the "slipping away" feeling that must come with death.

These drugs have also made me feel more in tune with higher states of conciousness that echo eerie tones of eternity and passion for my life from a 3rd person perspective.

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Swyfty Swyf]
    #10614812 -

Amor Fati my friends.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Silversoul]
    #10615280 -

I'm fine if my consciousness will be switched off like a light bulb. And I'm fine if consciousness somehow goes on.
I'm not worried in any way, as if it switches off, there's nothing to worry anymore. And if it goes on, well, wow, wouldn't it be fantastic anyways ?
For the effects my life had on my surroundings, they will remain even when I have physically left and even that can be seen as a 'spiritual' sustained presence of oneself. In the heads of people and in the things one did...
So, death isn't something to worry about for me, but the process of dying could cause a bit of fear still, but there, psychedelics really can give some good aid as far as I see...


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: blazenn]
    #10615457 -

Ive come to not worry about death,Just let it unfold.

Actually lately ive accepted death in a new aspect,it will just answer the real mystery of life.

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: blazenn]
    #10619943 -

You simply have to accept the fact that one day you are going to die.

There's nothing you can do about it, so you can either live your life or spend your days worrying about something that you won't be around to experience anyway.

Seems an obvious choice.


--------------------
If an artist should ever feel that he could no longer better himself then what was the point of being an artist? Each work should be like unto a stepping-stone that led to greater and greater heights of artistry, where a man could look back at his life's works and be satisfied that he had made the most of his allotted span.

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: blazenn]
    #10622474 -

i dotn believe in god but i do strongly belive death is another part of life i dont fear it or try to put it off or let it worry me at all actually i dont really ever think about it but when the time come;s it will come and ill see if im right or not

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #10622482 -

Death anxiety is made up by atheists to try and explain religion.

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Tibetan]
    #10622507 -

Oh really? Because I'm pretty sure people got anxious about death long before the word 'atheist' appeared.


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: zouden]
    #10622573 -

Fear of death is a pretty common trait... since anything that isn't would have become extinct some time ago.

Right?

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #10622721 -

Not necessarily; there's a difference between survival instinct and fear of death. I think animals have an instinct to survive, but they don't fear death the way humans do. What's the evolutionary advantage in being scared of something you can't stop?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: Tibetan]
    #10622930 -

Tibetan said:
Death anxiety is made up by atheists to try and explain religion.


Not really.  But the fact that the earliest religions did not seem to be very concerned with an afterlife does seem to undermine their point about it being the origin of religion.  To the extent that early tribal religions were concerned with death, it was more about being afraid of angering their dead ancestors than worrying about their own death.


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Re: Question For Atheists [Re: zouden]
    #10623350 -

My death anxiety has fixed up since much of my psychedelic experience.

I have died.

what does that mean? It simply means that I accepted my own death. I thought I was dead or at least that my life was over. It doesn't have to mean anything other than that because now I realise that every moment of life is a gift of circumstance, whereas beforehand I still thought of death as some fault of mine. During my experience of death, I accepted the fault and reconsidered who I really was my whole life and what all my efforts had gained me. At the time I was sort of suspended in a dark void surrounded by ribbons of light.

It wasnt like as soon as I got back, I was no longer afraid of death. I was mighty glad to be alive though! and after putting a bunch of experiences together and realising that none of the brilliance of my experiences could be matched by any human concept or creation, I realised (not for the first time of course) that basically any human conception of death is a crackpot theory and can only possibly be used as a means of motivating yourself in the present.

To say that consciousness ends when death occurs is highly presumptuous. Although we have no reason to believe in heaven or hell, we also have no reason to believe that it is the end. just like that.

The reason for this is that we have no idea how consciousness can arise from physical properties and thus we cannot suggest that physical properties alone are responsible for consciousness, even though we can indeed assert that the physical body and brain is necessary for conscious experience to explore THIS universe.

But people always want to say WHAT THE CASE IS. they want to say what happens when you die. you go here or there or something happens or nothing happens or you reincarnate.

No one knows what happens when you die. Stop trying to work it out! Pay attention to life instead. You might just end when you die. But if for whatever reason you were placed, or chose, to come to earth, then you are wasting your opportunity while you blunder over unnatainables


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