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Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 36
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
Re: More questions about Religion [Re: Pynchon]
    #367163 - 08/05/01 11:56 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

this all sounds very interesting, but so many people have so many different views, on OTHER peoples experience of god, and so many people have died for OTHER peoples experience and not their own. after studying numerous philosiphies, and hearing about OTHER peoples experience, and what is right and wrong for OTHER people, I have utterly given up on all of it, and since I am no longer searching for an experience mandated by OTHERS, I am finally happy with who I am, and if god has anything to say about it, he knows where to find me

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Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
Re: More questions about Religion [Re: Pynchon]
    #367215 - 08/05/01 02:22 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know for sure. I was in Science class when I first heard it. It was around the same time they found out that we didn't come from apes like they first thought and around the same time they released solid genetic proof proving that the  Jewish people of Africa were indeed Jewish. My teacher read it out of a newspaper. I'm not sure which. I guess if you wanted to you could search for it online. You could probably find it that way. Did you know our water came from comets?


"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5

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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 4 months, 16 days
Re: More questions about Religion [Re: CACA]
    #367580 - 08/06/01 07:03 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

"african eve" (we are all her descendants)
maternal mitochondrial dna
motherline traced to africa ~ 30,000 years ago...
BUT humans have been around as humans for prolly a few hundred thousand years, and our genus & relatives (Homo & Australopithecus) have prolly been around for a few million...
the split from Pan (chimps & bobolo) prolly like 10 million...
for where we were during the time between, check out _the descent of woman_ (the so-called aquatic ape theory)
"come from apes" .... well, the actual term is humans and apes had a common ancestor... and chimps & humans have like a 97% dna match, making them our closest surviving relatives (the ur-primate stock, well, we got to do some deep chronodiving to approach that level... are you ready?)
sci fi author clifford d simak has a nice little read about a time-line where Homo sapiens is regarded (by H. habilis, A. rubustus, H. neandrethalensis, and other intelligent primate species) as a dangerous, fratricidal, genocidal buncha crazies with mostly murder on our minds... not a pretty picture... (simak is a wondeful author, check him out at your local library or bookstore...)
it has been demonstrated (fossil evidence) that some of our extinct "relatives" once thought to be exclusively african, were clear over in east asia (as well as europe) long before the most recent series of ice ages... as to their genetic contribution to the current human gene pool... who can say for sure (heinlein, in _glory road_ : (oscar musing): aren't most anthropologist charts of human descent covered with more dotted lines than the geneological charts for european royalty? and who knows what alley oop was doing with the upstairs maid that long ago?)
ye gods...

old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
Re: More questions about Religion [Re: gnrm23]
    #367597 - 08/06/01 08:42 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

okay.. thx for clearing that up... i think..??..


"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5

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happy mutant
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: More questions about Religion [Re: shroom-girlie]
    #368133 - 08/07/01 10:50 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

box 1.) "religious people" box 2.) "non-religious people"
take everyone you know and throw em in one of the boxes, and throw yourself in box 2. this is your categorization of what people are, think of it as your first-person social construct of "religious" in-group and "non-religious" out-group. you know that people belong in one box or the other, but how do you decide which box they should be in?

from your first person perspective, how do people get into the "religious people" box? is it on the basis of having heard them say "I believe in God!" is it based on them celebrating a religious holiday? do they have to go to church? do they have to wear a certain kind of clothing? do you have to perceive them as narrow-minded to belong in that box? what is it? try and be as specific as possible in naming specifically what actions you perceive that puts them in the religious box.
likewise, what makes people "non-religious"? do they have to be disinterested in religion entirely? do they have to say "I'm not a religious person?" do they simply not go to church? - is there 5-6 things you look for, and if they have 3 or more, then they're a "non-religious person? what is it? how do you decide?

what stereotypes have you heard about "religious" people? what stereotypes have you heard about "non-religious" people? can you think of 3 stereotypes for each group?
ex. religious people - "believe that if one believes in God, God will give you whatever you ask for"

what does that mean? do all religious people believe that? are all religious people who are agreeing with this statement understanding the same religious Truth about this statement? can you think of how some religious people who agree with this statement might interpret it differently than others who still agree with the statement? what is it about language that makes that possible?

Question: Many times the preacher will say if when you look in the mirror you will see god. Is this their
way of telling us that we are all god and they are trying to get us to believe in ourselves and control out
own fate?
Did you ask the preacher? Is this "their" way? - who's "they"? specifically, who is "they"? was there more than one preacher who said this? Would all preachers say this? would all preachers who said this agree upon the same spiritual Truth pertaining to this statement? would the entire congregation believe this? how did they all come to the same understanding of its meaning?

Question: is religion bad for us?
who is "us"? is "us" those who belong in the "non-religious box"? most people in the "non-religious box" would probably say "yes" - but is that true, or only true based on my statistics and probabilities and experience? have you ever done a survey? could you back it up in the lab? if religion is bad for "us", how about "them"? is good and bad universal, or are there relative realities which all reflect aspects of truth?

is it distracting us from controlling our own fate? do you feel distracted? do you see others as distracted? make 2 boxes, distracted - undistracted, put them as subcategories in both "religious people" and "non-religious" people - are the non-religious people less distracted? what are the conditions for distracted? are those who are distracted from controling their fate the ones who watch tv when there is "nothing to do", or read the bible? what is it?

you know, you can find answers to your questions, you just have to do a little field work... don't be afraid, try a laboratory report of sorts, put it all in scientific notation if ya wanna

Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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