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Offlinepurenergy
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are buddhists atheist?
    #1923646 - 09/17/03 12:59 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

atheist: one who denies the existence of God
atheism: a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

are buddhists atheist(by definition)?


--------------------
one has lived from an endless past and will live into an endless future. at this very moment one partakes of Eternal Life-blissful, luminous, pure.


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Anonymous

Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: purenergy]
    #1923863 - 09/17/03 02:04 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Buddhists are not atheist, or rather buddhism is not atheistic, i see them as having dispensed with "beliefs" altogether , and replaced that with UNDERSTANDING of our infinitely complex(but very simple) universe.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: ]
    #1923876 - 09/17/03 02:09 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

neon said:
Buddhists are not atheist, or rather buddhism is not atheistic, i see them as having dispensed with "beliefs" altogether , and replaced that with UNDERSTANDING of our infinitely complex(but very simple) universe. 



Couldn't have said it better myself.  :thumbup:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: purenergy]
    #1924285 - 09/17/03 05:25 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Buddism is hard to define.In many ways it's more of a philosophical system than a religion.

While the majority of Buddhists don't believe in a personal,Christian type god,many believe in some kind of god like universial mind .

I believe a lot of Buddhists could be labled "agnostic",but not really "atheist".


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (09/17/03 05:38 AM)


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Offlinegnrm23
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Registered: 08/30/99
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: monoamine]
    #1924406 - 09/17/03 07:31 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

the buddha did not deny the existence of gods (he was raised as a hindu of the ruler/warrior caste, reared as crown prince of nepal), he merely stated that god(s) will not, ultimately, "save" us - we must do that ourselves ("be lamps unto yourselves; work out your own salvation with diligence")


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: purenergy]
    #1924429 - 09/17/03 07:55 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Buddhism, from its inception, has been a non-theistic religion. This differs from the common usage of the word 'atheistic' (although technically, Buddhism is atheistic, where the 'a' preface connotes the meaning 'non'). To most English speaking people, 'atheistic' means that there is no 'Ultimate Reality,' and that simple physical reality accounts for ALL of Reality.

Buddhism's founder Siddhartha Gautama was in many ways more of a psychologist than a religionist. He claimed to teach nothing other than a Path to the cessation of suffering, based on a profound insight into the components and functions of the mind. He allegedly refused to answer questions about God - Brahman - although he himself was from a Brahmin caste Hindu family. He taught followers how to 'disentangle' one's attachments to things and ideas and feelings, and so to arrive at a state of mind characterized by non-attachment, or desirelessness, which not only results in profound inner peace, but is assumed to stop the otherwise automatic process of rebirth which follows death.

The Buddhist doctrine of rebirth, it should be well-noted, is distinct from the Hindu doctrine of reincarnation, which assumes that there is a 'self' that leaves and enters various humans at death and birth. The Buddhist doctrine of Anatman or Annata, means that there really is no 'self' as a separate entity, but a sense of coherency from moment-to-moment. A bundle of tendencies called Samskaras leave us at death, and if enough recombine in the Intermediate State following death, then a memory trace is picked up by the newborn later in life.

Buddhism teaches fairly mechanical processes that are laws of cause and effect (karma) between psychic realities. The realities of God and Grace, or of the personal nature of God (Saguna Brahman) were not taught. The Transpersonal aspect of God (Nirguna Brahman) is closer to the Buddhist idea of Sunyata - The Clear Light of the Void - Ultimate Reality 'without attributes,' and hence non-theistic.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1924806 - 09/17/03 12:57 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Buddhism is pretty fucking sweet and enlightened.. heh.

I guess a lot of my own beliefs tie in with Buddhism, although they basically came about in their own way.. i.e., no studying Buddist documents or anything, although I guess a lot of the books I have read (Handbook to Higher Consciousness, most notably) tie in with Buddhism..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1924942 - 09/17/03 01:52 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You may consider buddhism atheist. It is a religious, monastic system with no definition of god, it's pantheistic.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: MAIA]
    #1925020 - 09/17/03 02:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.nihilistassaultgroup.org/tof/tib1.html

I think the best understanding/appreciation of buddhism comes from reading the tibetan book of the dead. The above link i found ties the psychedelic experience into the "nature" of the experiences described in that book. Anyone who shares an understanding of Carl Jungs ideas on the collective unconcious im sure has grasped the fact, that the tibetan book of the dead was a huge influence on his thinking.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: ]
    #1925258 - 09/17/03 03:37 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

> You may consider buddhism atheist.

Given the following:

> atheism: a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

... I don't think many buddhist would consider themselves atheist any more or less than they would consider themselves "God fearing".


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflinePala
Dharma Bum

Registered: 05/27/03
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: Seuss]
    #1925268 - 09/17/03 03:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well, there are no deities in Buddhism at its core. Over time, as Buddhism spread from India to China, Sri Lanka, Japan, etc, it adopted local deities and made them into protectors of the historical Buddha, Gautama Siddhartha. However, at its root (I call it "philosophical Buddhism"), Buddhism is free from deities.


--------------------
huh????


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OfflinePala
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: Pala]
    #1925271 - 09/17/03 03:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

This also brings up the important issue of theory v. practice in religion. Each perspective gives a different answer to your question. In theory, no. In practice, yes.


--------------------
huh????


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1925479 - 09/17/03 04:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

hey markos, since shakyamuni buddha was born the son of the king of much of northern india (now nepal), his caste was actually kshatriya... (and when his daddy heard prophecy about his son growing up to become either a world ruler OR a world redeemer, he took steps to train his son to be a king among kings, and not a spiritual seeker looking for the answer to the sufferings of mankind...)
the brahmins were the priestly caste...
~
many modern buddhists see siddharta gautama buddha as a world savior (especially some mahayanist schools, and for sure the pure land & nembutsu sects...)...
and the "buddha mind" which illuminates the shining void and undergirds all reality can sound awfully close to christian mystics' "ground of being" or "godhead" which is held to be a deeper reality behind the trinitarian formula of "father, son, and holy spirit" (see thomas merton's _mystics and zen masters_ or even aldous huxley's _the perennial philosophy_ )
~
as for links between buddhism & gnosticism & manicheanism &c , well... perhaps another time, eh?
~
~
shalom
namaste
blessed be


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1925601 - 09/17/03 05:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You're correct - my bad. I hesitated as I wrote that this morning. The warrier caste was he. Even though there is no 'upward mobility' in each birth, according to the caste game plan, it would be difficult to see Siddhartha as anything but a Brahmin philosopher, but indeed you are correct. The young prince was raised to be a ruler.

I have been to a Tibetan Buddhist 'monastery' in New Jersey during a festival, where lay folk brought tons of gifts and food to be laid at the foot of a huge statue of Buddha. The goodies were for the monks, but the bowing and gesturing were all very devotional actions. I remember hearing a child ask what I was doing (I was meditating in front of the statue when gift-givers began filing in). I heard no audible response to the child's question. It would seem that among much of today's Mahayana and even Vajrayana, putting this savior on a pedestal for worship is far easier than actual practice. Sound familiar? Peace.

"...Ahimsa, is the seashell of Buddha...Ahimsa, is the Rose and the Lamb..."
-The Fugs


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/17/03 05:24 PM)


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OfflineBhairabas
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1926367 - 09/17/03 09:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

If you are a true Buddhist then you are never where you think you are.. Your just visiting..


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Offlinepurenergy
see you spacecowboy....

Registered: 09/11/03
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: Bhairabas]
    #1926390 - 09/17/03 09:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

how do you know that?


--------------------
one has lived from an endless past and will live into an endless future. at this very moment one partakes of Eternal Life-blissful, luminous, pure.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: purenergy]
    #1927653 - 09/18/03 04:09 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The founder of buddhism likened the teachings (dhamma) to a raft that can be discarded when it has served its purpose. Here is a passage from the Alagaddupama Sutta:

Simile of the Raft

"Bhikkhus, I shall show you how the Dhamma is similar to a raft, being for the purpose of crossing over, not for the purpose of grasping. Listen and attend closely to what I shall say."

"Yes, venerable sir," the bhikkhus replied.

The Blessed One said this: "Bhikkhus, suppose a man in the course of a journey saw a great expanse of water, whose near shore was dangerous and fearful and whose further shore was safe and free from fear, but there was no ferryboat or bridge going to the far shore. Then he thought: 'There is this great expanse of water, whose near shore is dangerous and fearful and whose further shore is safe and free from fear, but there is no ferryboat or bridge going to the far shore. Suppose I collect grass, twigs, branches, and leaves and bind them together into a raft, and supported by the raft and making an effort with my hands and feet, I got safely across to the far shore.' And then the man collected grass, twigs, braches, and leaves and bound them together into a raft, and supported by the raft and making an effort with his hands and feet, he got safely across to the far shore. Then, when he got across and had arrived at the far shore, he might think thus: 'This raft has been very helpful to me, since supported by it and making an effort with my hands and feet, I got safely across to the far shore. Suppose I were to hoist it on my head or load it on my shoulder, and then go wherever I want.' Now, bhikkhus, what do you think? By doing so, would that man be doing what should be done with that raft?"

"No, venerable sir."

"By doing what would that man be doing what should be done with that raft? Here, bhikkhus, when that man got across and had arrived at the far shore, he might think thus: 'This raft has been very helpful to me, since supported by it making an effort with my hands and feet, I got safely across to the far shore. Suppose I were to haul it onto dry land or set it adrift in the water, and then go wherever I want.' Now, bhikkhus, it is by so doing that that man would be doing what should be done with that raft. So I have shown you how the Dhamma is similar to a raft, being for the purpose of crossing over, not for the purpose of grasping.

"Bhikkhus, when you know the Dhamma is similar to a raft, you should abandon even good states, how much more so bad states.


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Offlinechrispc
Durban, SouthAfrica (Soon)

Registered: 08/05/02
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Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: ]
    #1953677 - 09/26/03 09:20 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

neon said:
http://www.nihilistassaultgroup.org/tof/tib1.html

I think the best understanding/appreciation of buddhism comes from reading the tibetan book of the dead. The above link i found ties the psychedelic experience into the "nature" of the experiences described in that book. Anyone who shares an understanding of Carl Jungs ideas on the collective unconcious im sure has grasped the fact, that the tibetan book of the dead was a huge influence on his thinking.




Which one? The real one or the Leary one.


--------------------
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our
thoughts."

- Buddha in the Dhammapada -

ChrisC


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Offlinechrispc
Durban, SouthAfrica (Soon)

Registered: 08/05/02
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Loc: London, UK
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: Seuss]
    #1953688 - 09/26/03 09:28 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
... I don't think many buddhist would consider themselves atheist any more or less than they would consider themselves "God fearing".




Probably more agnostic. After all the Buddha taught everyone to keep an open mind.


--------------------
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our
thoughts."

- Buddha in the Dhammapada -

ChrisC


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Offlinechrispc
Durban, SouthAfrica (Soon)

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 254
Loc: London, UK
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: are buddhists atheist? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1953701 - 09/26/03 09:34 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Rhizoid said:
The founder of buddhism likened the teachings (dhamma) to a raft that

"Bhikkhus, when you know the Dhamma is similar to a raft, you should abandon even good states, how much more so bad states.





Where did you get that www.accesstoinsight.org?


--------------------
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our
thoughts."

- Buddha in the Dhammapada -

ChrisC


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