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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right"....
    #10012809 -

I remember reading a few days ago, either here or in P&S, a few posts by people suggesting that if one commits suicide or lives immorally, one will have to live one's life over and over again until one corrects one's mistakes, purifies one's karma, however you want to put it.

To anyone who subscribes to this theory (and I don't know for certain that anyone here does): Doesn't this strike you as extremely implausible and downright egomaniacal?  Having to live your life repeatedly implies that everyone else has to live theirs repeatedly as well, whether or not they "learned their lesson" somewhere in the first few thousand go-rounds.  So all the billions of suffering people have to suffer over and over again until you get your act together. :lol:  Make sense?


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: Lion]
    #10012862 -

I think it is a form of spiritualism that believes you incarnate to learn certain lessons that you feel are important to the growth of your soul. If you abort the mission you will most likely want to make another attempt. I don't think it would be a complete recreation of your current life, just a set of circumstances that would teach you the same lesson. You could substitute Karma instead of lesson. So yes it makes sense under this view of life.

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation [Re: spyder]
    #10013219 -

spyder said:
I don't think it would be a complete recreation of your current life, just a set of circumstances that would teach you the same lesson.


This would be the easiest answer to the OP, but I do agree that the idea of this life being given to you in order to learn a specific lesson smacks of bullshit.  Even if this were true, how are you so sure of its truth and how do you know exactly which lesson you should be trying to learn?  Theories like these always seem to exude that mystical inclination to find grand significance in everything and a fundamental purpose for one's life.  Sometimes, there just isn't one, and even if there is it might not always be very satisfying.

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation [Re: deCypher]
    #10013249 -

spyder said:
I don't think it would be a complete recreation of your current life, just a set of circumstances that would teach you the same lesson.


Exactly.

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: Lion]
    #10013790 -

Well...first of all I'm pretty sure that's not the way most people who subscribe to this idea think of it. It's not as egocentric as you would think. They suggest that we individually move through lives until we get to a certain point where we don't need or want to be here anymore. This doesn't hold anyone else back...after all if this is true then people presumably who have "learned all" well before you were even born (which you must accept they can in the first place if you think its possible for you) actually waited for you? not likely (AND egocentric)...but in some religions, some people do. In Buddhism, which I know you are familiar with, Lion, some Bodhisattvas have declared that they won't leave until all beings are liberated.

deCypher...I don't think this idea automatically assumes a grand purpose either. One idea which is supposed to explain this process and which could also allow for individualized lifetime creation is that we choose what we want before incarnating.

I'm not really sure how any spiritual idea could "smack of bullshit" so much more than any other...after all, we're talking about something that doesn't even exit for most people. Aside from random glimpses of what many people immediately claim is the divine (to pet their ego most likely) there are very few who seem to actually get the low down on existence. How can we presume something to be so wrong when we would have to presume it into being in the first place?

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: fazdazzle]
    #10013839 -

fazdazzle said:
Well...first of all I'm pretty sure that's not the way most people who subscribe to this idea think of it. It's not as egocentric as you would think. They suggest that we individually move through lives until we get to a certain point where we don't need or want to be here anymore. This doesn't hold anyone else back...after all if this is true then people presumably who have "learned all" well before you were even born (which you must accept they can in the first place if you think its possible for you) actually waited for you? not likely (AND egocentric)...but in some religions, some people do. In Buddhism, which I know you are familiar with, Lion, some Bodhisattvas have declared that they won't leave until all beings are liberated.

The theory I was addressing was specifically the one about repeating this life...I would have posted it in the thread in which it was espoused, by I forgot which thread that was. :tongue:

As a (lazy and non-diligent) student of Buddhist philosophy, I try to keep an open mind about rebirth, though I am skeptical and have seen no proof for it (except for psychological death and rebirth on a small scale in this life - the birth and death of illusory self-concepts).

Anyway, thanks all for the thoughtful replies to the topic.:)


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: fazdazzle]
    #10014226 -

fazdazzle said:
I'm not really sure how any spiritual idea could "smack of bullshit" so much more than any other...after all, we're talking about something that doesn't even exit for most people. Aside from random glimpses of what many people immediately claim is the divine (to pet their ego most likely) there are very few who seem to actually get the low down on existence. How can we presume something to be so wrong when we would have to presume it into being in the first place?


Metaphysical conjectures on the nature of existence are fine; accounts of out of body experiences, telepathy, and dream walking I'm all perfectly content with.  It is on the other hand speculation on the nature of life after death that seems inherently suspect to me; can there ever be any evidence one way or the other?  The fact that so many spiritual seekers seem to base their life philosophy on the carrot or the stick of their next incarnation is what's most bothersome to me.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: Lion]
    #10014503 -

Lion said:
I remember reading a few days ago, either here or in P&S, a few posts by people suggesting that if one commits suicide or lives immorally, one will have to live one's life over and over again until one corrects one's mistakes, purifies one's karma, however you want to put it.

To anyone who subscribes to this theory (and I don't know for certain that anyone here does): Doesn't this strike you as extremely implausible and downright egomaniacal?  Having to live your life repeatedly implies that everyone else has to live theirs repeatedly as well, whether or not they "learned their lesson" somewhere in the first few thousand go-rounds.  So all the billions of suffering people have to suffer over and over again until you get your act together. :lol:  Make sense?


Believing in karma in the way you describe it , could be likened to the way Christians Believe in the Creator.
It is a negative distortion of the original teachings.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: Lion]
    #10015242 -

Lion said:
Having to live your life repeatedly implies that everyone else has to live theirs repeatedly as well, whether or not they "learned their lesson" somewhere in the first few thousand go-rounds.


Only if they are real.

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: spyder]
    #10029346 -

I think alot of people want to believe that if you commit suicide you will still have to go through the same stuff over again.  It's one way to keep us from killing ourselves when times get rough. 

Why not just deal with it in this life so you don't have to go through it again.  :shrug:


--------------------

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: mushbaby]
    #10032021 -

Holy fuck the reality of amnesis just hit me so hard for some reason. Hi mushbaby. :sun:

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: Lion]
    #10032046 -

I do believe in reincarnation.

I believe everyone has their particular handicaps (be them mental, emotional or physical) so they will learn from them.

I dont think there is anything egomaniacal about recycled energy. It's not like we will remember anything that happened from our previous lives anyway.

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: Lion]
    #10032094 -

Lion said:
I remember reading a few days ago, either here or in P&S, a few posts by people suggesting that if one commits suicide or lives immorally, one will have to live one's life over and over again until one corrects one's mistakes, purifies one's karma, however you want to put it.

To anyone who subscribes to this theory (and I don't know for certain that anyone here does): Doesn't this strike you as extremely implausible and downright egomaniacal?  Having to live your life repeatedly implies that everyone else has to live theirs repeatedly as well, whether or not they "learned their lesson" somewhere in the first few thousand go-rounds.  So all the billions of suffering people have to suffer over and over again until you get your act together. :lol:  Make sense?



Who decides what "right" is?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: Icelander]
    #10032473 -

After 13 years of collecting myths, maps, models and far out theories I realize they all have to go.

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: Middleman]
    #10033163 -

Housecleaning lightens the load.:thumbup: It can feel weird however.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: Middleman]
    #10034830 -

Middleman said:
After 13 years of collecting myths, maps, models and far out theories I realize they all have to go.



Wow.....................................................................................

I didn't think I'd been gone that long.  Hi sweetie!

But seriously, collecting , learning and trying to understand myths and such doesn't mean you have to believe in them all.

My personal feelings are that such as reincarnation would not be the rule but the exception to the rule.  But who am I to exclude the possibility.  It's all about chaos right?


--------------------

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: mushbaby]
    #10035990 -

reincarnation is like OCD immortalized imho

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: mushbaby]
    #10039296 -

mushbaby said:
But seriously, collecting , learning and trying to understand myths and such doesn't mean you have to believe in them all.

My personal feelings are that such as reincarnation would not be the rule but the exception to the rule.  But who am I to exclude the possibility.  It's all about chaos right?


Right on it is all about choas and mystery. I haven't really believed in any myths or models. I believe I know what they represent and that has to go.
I don't think there is anything wrong with having beliefs and views, it's just important not to identify one's self with them.

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: Middleman]
    #10040595 -

I don't believe in any of this reincarnation bullshit I've seen how mad reality really is so why in the hell would we keep coming back to this one reality floating in a sea of madness. We're more likely to go swimming in the sea of madness and find another reality that we wanna float around in for a while. I don't subscribe to all this "life lesson" bullshit either I think this is a kinda game and we gain "perspectives" out of it on top of having fun. What we really are can't even be thought about with logic. Why the hell would we be bound by any of these earthly rules and logic?

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Re: For anyone who believes in reincarnation "until you get it right".... [Re: MercuryDrinker]
    #10041198 -

I sort of agree. Reincarnation doesn't really seem to hold water except in the imagination.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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