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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: Coaster]
    #8516559 -

Quote:
we are obviously in a recession



Actually, the US is not in a recession. Growth has been almost flat for the last two quarters (0.6 per cent and 0.9 per cent respectively) but that means the economy is in a slowdown, not a recession.

Words have meaning. That's why there are so many of them.




Phred


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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8516591 -

zappaisgod said:
  We aren't in a recession. 








Real Definition of a Recession:
Two consecutive quarters of negative growth.


Liberals definition in an election year:
One quarter of growth less than 2%.....


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (06/13/08 04:36 PM)

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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8516603 -

I thought it was 3.  At least it was 3 when Clinton left office.  When McCain leaves it will probably be down to a bad hair day.  Oh what has happened to our standards?  I weep.  Silently, of course.


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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8517856 -

zappaisgod said:
Hey rev, he was a fighter pilot.  He flew the jets.  There is no denying that and there is no denying that it is entirely a meritocracy and most people couldn't do it no matter what training they got.



First of all, the hard part about being a pilot in the armed forces isn't the flying, it's getting into the school.  The Army could train a chimp to fly.  Furthermore, if you deny that there is nepotism in the armed forces, then you're officially hopeless.  I've seen soldiers fire weapons while in formation and avoid punishment because daddy is a Sergeant Major.  I knew another soldier whose uncle was a Major General.  Trust me, that soldier acted like his uncle was a Major General and did whatever the fuck he pleased.. without repercussion.  Bush W's father, H.W. was a decorated fighter pilot.  If you think that that played no role in W's also being a pilot, or that he never went to drill, deployed, or did anything, and was still discharged honorably.. you're nuts, and you will literally say anything. 

zappaisgod said:
Quote:
rev 766 said: 
if you can demonstrate to me some way that the country is better than when he took office, i'll believe he's not a complete fuck-tard.



We are not in a recession.  That was fucking easy.



It is beyond sad that you claim America's economic health to be in better shape now than it was in 2000.  No, we are not in a recession, because technically the economy is still growing.  However, the stagflation that we are experiencing now is worse than it was during the Carter administration because wages aren't rising to meet the demands of inflation.  Add to that the massive increases in the cost of living, and it means that the average American's money goes nowhere near as far.  But, we're not in a recession. 

Last month was the fifth straight month of higher unemployment, and the rate made it's highest monthly jump since the *ahem* Reagan administration.  So, not only is you're money worth less than it was in 2000, but your chances of even getting a job are going down the shitter as well.  Unemployment went down every year under Clinton, even though he inherited a rate higher than the present one from H.W.  But, we're not in a recession. 

Housing prices are down nearly 15% in one year, and since the home is the average American's largest asset, those decreases in value have wiped over TWO TRILLION DOLLARS of wealth off the boards, and substantially weakened the ability of many home-owners to borrow, save, or spend money.  But, we're not in a recession. 

Fuel prices are skyrocketing.  The average price of a gallon of regular has gone up 25% in one year, while the average price of a gallon of diesel has risen over 60% in one year.  This makes it more expensive to do almost anything in America.  What is Bush's solution for this problem?  Go to the Saudi's and beg for more oil.  (psst... it didn't work.) I'm not even going to talk about the weak dollar, increased food prices, the epic drain on our resources due to fighting in Iraq, or my admitted guess that the only reason the economy is still growing is because the oil companies are raking it in. But still, no, we're not in a recession. 

We are, however, fucked. 



In the end though, the worst part of the whole situation isn't any of that.  The worst part isn't that the Republican candidate actually wants to stay on the same course we're on, or how he wants to make permanent the tax cuts that favor the richest.. including the estate tax which was cleverly renamed the "death tax" by Karl Rove to woo idiots to support repealing it.  The worst part isn't how McCain wants to give Americans a "gas tax holiday", which is just another attempt to confuse the stupid people in America into thinking that he's actually doing something besides blowing more money.  The worst part isn't how he wants to implement more regressive tax-cuts even though we're already running an historic deficit, or how he never actually offers long-term solutions. The worst part isn't even that he is calling all of this change. 

The worst part isn't how you use just ONE statistic to support your ridiculous assertion that the economy is just peachy when the facts are staring you in the face, or how you have to go 30 years into the past to find similar circumstances, and then claim that to be enough precedence anyone would need to support your absurd prophesies.  Sadly, the worst part isn't even how you disgustingly drag race into this conversation for no apparent reason other than for your own pleasure. Nor, is it how you somehow seem to believe that the reasons others disagree with you is because they are young and incompetent, even though it has consistently been YOU who has been as contemptuous, and intellectually dishonest as it is possible for anyone to be.  It has been you who has perpetually changed the argument whenever the debate turns against you, and it's been you unthinkingly regurgitating every single right wing talking point as if it was the truest gospel.  No.. none of that is the worst part.





The worst part is that you believe every bit of it.



:cool:


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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

Edited by thedefone (06/12/08 11:51 PM)

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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: thedefone]
    #8517937 -

Quote:
However, the stagflation that we are experiencing now is worse than it was during the Carter administration because wages aren't rising to meet the demands of inflation.



Worse than the Carter years? Nope.

Quote:
Last month was the fifth straight month of higher unemployment, and the rate made it's highest monthly jump since the *ahem* Reagan administration.



Of course there's higher unemployment, and of course last month was a huge jump. The minimum wage was raised. Every economist worth his salt predicted it would increase unemployment, and that it would hit teenagers and students hardest. Sure enough, their predictions came to pass. Big whoop. Didn't take a genius to see it coming.

Quote:
Unemployment went down every year under Clinton, even though he inherited a rate higher than the present one from H.W.



Went down every year? We're going to need to see a credible source for that.

Quote:
Housing prices are down nearly 15% in one year...



What's your point?

Quote:
Fuel prices are skyrocketing.



Thanks to Congress's stubborn refusal to allow oil companies to drill... well, anywhere, actually. Or to allow any new refineries to be built. More than thirty years since the last one was built. Or to reduce the insane number of special mixtures of gasoline required by region and time of year, causing refinery downtime for recalibration.

The worst part is how many people think the president has much impact on the economy. In actual fact, there is almost no action a president can realistically take which will change the US economy significantly.



Phred


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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: Phred]
    #8518226 -

i think fabricating a war that has cost us the lives of our soldiers and billions of dollars in taxes has affected our economy negatively, maybe that's just me though.


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praise "Bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: rev 766]
    #8518563 -

> i think fabricating a war that has cost us the lives of our soldiers and billions of dollars in taxes has affected our economy negatively

Many problems beyond war spending, though I would agree that is a good part of it.  (I'm no expert in this field and could easily be mistaken!)  I think a lot of our problems come from the attitude of people born after WWII... the "life owes me whatever I want" generation(s)... It is this general mindset that leads to our problems, but it is much easier to blame the illegal aliens than to look in the mirror.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: Seuss]
    #8518971 -

DEY TOOK DERR JOOOBBBBBSSSS!!!!!

oh wait, that's future aliens


--------------------
praise "Bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: rev 766]
    #8521632 -

Phred said:
Quote:
However, the stagflation that we are experiencing now is worse than it was during the Carter administration because wages aren't rising to meet the demands of inflation.



Worse than the Carter years? Nope.



I'll rephrase that.  The consequences of the stagflation we are now experiencing are more significant that they were during the Carter years.  I'll also go on to point out that the stagflation that is typically blamed on the Carter administration actually began during the early Seventies under Nixon and Ford.. long before Carter came into office.  Many of the policies that Carter put into effect were retained by the Reagan Administration, including deregulation and the appointment of Paul Volcker, who is generally credited with bringing about the end of the crisis.  I do like how you demand proof for claims other people make, but when it comes to be your turn, simple denial is sufficient. 

Quote:
The implications are clear and sobering. Our global resource binds are much tighter now than in the 1970s, because the world economy is that much larger, the resource constraints are tighter, and quick fixes are harder to find. In 1974 the world population was four billion, and total world income was around $23 trillion (in today's dollars adjusted for purchasing power). Now the world population is 6.7 billion, and the economy is around $65 trillion. The same annual growth rate of the world economy, say 4% per annum, requires vastly more natural resources - energy, water, and arable land - than in the 1970s and poses much larger risks for the world's climate and ecosystems.

We are therefore facing a prolonged period in which global economic growth will be constrained not by broad macroeconomic policies or market institutions, nor by limits of global trade, nor by the general ability of today's emerging markets to invest in new industries. The more pressing limits will be in resources and a safe climate. It took 15 tumultuous years to overcome the limits on energy and food after 1973. Unless we act more cleverly today, we could face an even more harrowing and prolonged adjustment ahead.



Fortune Online


Quote:
Of course there's higher unemployment, and of course last month was a huge jump. The minimum wage was raised.



The minimum wage hasn't gone up in 10 months, nor is it set to go up again for two more.  Of course, inflation couldn't have anything to do with it! Nope, just a rising minimum wage, because in your one-dimensional world there is only one reason for any given problem.  Liberals.

Quote:
Although single month jumps in unemployment data should be judged cautiously, various factors suggest the spike in unemployment is not likely to be a statistical aberration and instead accurately reflects the weakening job market. First, it is consistent with the steady loss of jobs in the more accurate payroll survey. Second, as noted by the commissioner of the BLS, "The over-the-month jump in unemployment reflected additional workers who had lost their jobs as well as an upsurge in new and returning jobseekers."


Quote:
An increase in the youth labor force played a role in May's unemployment spike. However, even if we take teenagers out of the data, unemployment still rises from 4.5% to 4.8%, a considerable 0.3% increase, and well above the 4.0% adult rate of one-year ago.

The BLS reports that the number of unemployed grew by over 800,000 last month, but such monthly data can be too "noisy" to give a clear signal of the growth in the number of jobless. Averaging over the past three months, and comparing this to an average over the same three-month period a year ago, shows that number of unemployed is up by 1.2 million.



Economic Policy Institute


Quote:
Went down every year? We're going to need to see a credible source for that.




Department of Labor. Unemployment seems to have held steady during 1995.  Satisfied? Just so you know.. this is called a "fact."


Quote:
Thanks to Congress's stubborn refusal to allow oil companies to drill... well, anywhere, actually. Or to allow any new refineries to be built. More than thirty years since the last one was built. Or to reduce the insane number of special mixtures of gasoline required by region and time of year, causing refinery downtime for recalibration.



We keep oil companies from drilling in Africa, Russia, Indonesia, the Middle East, Mexico and South America?  Wow!  How come Congress does that?  Your grasp of economics is pretty weak, so here is a link to the federal government explaining why oil prices are rising.  Department of Energy - Why Are Oil Prices So High?  Allow me to point out that refining is but ONE reason among myriad complications.  The main causes, as any honest person knows, are increased demand in China, India and the rest of the developing world, OPEC's limited production, and global uncertainty about the market.  Your representation of the root causes is just another example of your using just one point of many to defend your position, because that is where the party line lays.  The facts are so much more nuanced.  It must be nice having the machine to do your thinking for you. 

So, now is the part where you say, "There is enough oil in ANWR to power a billion cars for a bazillion years, but you won't let us drill there because a caribou might die!  Fucking Liberals!"  Right?  So, I'll just go ahead and show you the results page of the report requested by Sen. Ted Stevens (R) which provides an assessment of Federal oil and natural gas leasing in the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) in Alaska, conducted by the Energy Information Association, a division of the DOE.  It clearly states, and I quote..

Quote:
With respect to the world oil price impact, projected ANWR oil production constitutes between 0.4 and 1.2 percent of total world oil consumption in 2030, based on the low and high resource cases, respectively. Consequently, ANWR oil production is not projected to have a large impact on world oil prices.


Quote:
Assuming that world oil markets continue to work as they do today, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) could neutralize any potential price impact of ANWR oil production by reducing its oil exports by an equal amount.



They do go on to say that ANWR may help reduce dependence on foreign oil, and that is all well and good, but the report also clearly states that there is a large amount of uncertainty about how much oil is there, where it is, and it's quality.  Personally, it's my opinion that instead of focusing on how we reduce our dependence on foreign oil, we focus on how to reduce our dependence on oil. 

Period.


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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: thedefone]
    #8521854 -

:winner:


--------------------
praise "Bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: thedefone]
    #8523545 -

We are not in a recession.

Market corrections following irrational market increases are a natural occurrence.  This applies to housing as well as tech stocks.  Further, the losses you cite are not real losses, they are paper losses.  Virtual losses of wealth that never really existed.  Loans are harder to come by because lenders are being more cautious, at the behest of gummint, in making loans because they are getting burned by bums they never should have lent money to in the first place.  Let's see, some guy borrows hundreds of thousands and doesn't pay it back but he is somehow the victim.  Odd universe you inhabit.

ANWAR is not the only problem area.  There is oil shale in abundance and a great amount of oil offshore which US oil companies are forbidden to exploit.  It is an indisputable fact that there has been no new resources tapped in the US for decades.  What is the only effect this could possibly have on oil prices?  Hint, it isn't downward.

People of average intelligence, let only idiots, cannot be taught to fly fighter jets.  People of average intelligence, let alone idiots, cannot get through Yale.  Or a Harvard MBA.  Keep taking those vitamins and you too can be the Yankee centerfielder.

Stagflation?

Quote:
A condition of slow economic growth and relatively high unemployment - a time of stagnation - accompanied by a rise in prices, or inflation.



http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stagflation.asp

Unemployment is not relatively high (5.5% for May 2008)

Quote:
An unemployment rate of about 4% - 6% is considered "healthy". Lower rates are seen as inflationary due to the upward pressure on salaries; higher rates threaten a decrease in consumer spending.




http://www.moneychimp.com/glossary/unemployment_rate.htm

Inflation remains at a manageable annual rate of around 4%
http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/CurrentInflation.asp

Further, the sudden jump in joblessness may be a natural result of a flood of college graduates looking for work.  We'll see.

At any rate, the request was for one thing better.  I gave it to you.  Don't whine when you get what you asked for


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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8523571 -

so what about the clinton years being great?


--------------------
praise "Bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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Re: Comedy Gold: Rhetorical Genius explains.... well, something, I guess [Re: rev 766]
    #8523614 -

A result of Bush 41 policies and the takeover of Congress by Republicans in 1994.  Unfortunately, the Republicans turned into spending whores themselves and with Bill's help left us with a recession. 

Are you aware that the federal legislative body in the US is Congress?


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