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various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia?
    #8461511 -

I know there are a few Gnostics around (esp. markos) that may be able to point me in the direction of the various versions of the story of Sophia. I've read a few on google, and in a few books recommended to me on here, ranging from poems to cliff-notes to complete books. Are there any highly recommended versions / translations?

Any good murals / illustrations depicting the myth?

Thanks in advance.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

Edited by kotik (05/29/08 08:48 PM)

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: kotik]
    #8461655 -

There is The Gnostic Bible by Barnstorm & Meyer or The Gnostic Scriptures by Bently Layton or The Nag Hammadi Library by Robinson. These are tomes, but they present the ancient stuff. Freke & Gandy's books, including the latest fun read (really) called The Gospel of the Second Coming include modern renderings which include the Eternal feminine as Sophia, and Mary called Magdalen as Sophia in union with Jesus as Logos - a Western parallel to the Yab-Yum Tibetan Buddhist Wisdom & Compassion of the Adi Buddha & Consort, Samantabhadra, Prajna & Karuna.


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (05/31/08 01:21 PM)

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8462681 -

thanks, The Gospel of the Second Coming is exactly what I was looking for!


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: kotik]
    #8464942 -

as an fyi, this was recently recommended to me as well.

http://www.gnosticbooks.org/index.php?view=article&catid=1%3A-by-samael-aun-weor&id=42%3Afundamentals-of-gnostic-education-&Itemid=3&option=com_content


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: kotik]
    #8465861 -

Weor was a sinister freak - another meglomaniacal cult leader. But that's just an opinion based upon that which I've read about him and his claims. Make your own decision.

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8466647 -

I appreciate the additional perspective, and I'll keep it in mind. I did notice he had some other books in topics that I'm not too fond of.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: kotik]
    #8466728 -

This is one of my favorite myths.

I like how in some versions Sophia's 'daughter' or child-like material reflection lays the Yaldabaoth (IHVH) egg before maturing and uniting with her opposite.

It's interesting that the lion headed serpent rising from the egg is also known as Mithra.

I like how the serpent in the garden (nerogenetics?) is Yaldabaoth's creation...

Ialdabaoth (Gnostic) (from Shem ilda + baoth)

Child from the egg (of Chaos); the spirit of matter, the chief of the lower 'elohim and father of the six dark stellar spirits or terrestrial angels, and thus one of the lower group of the Qabbalistic Sephiroth, the shadow or reflection on the lower four cosmic planes of the arupa or formless higher Sephirothic range. These emanations from the stellar spirits become darker and more material as they recede in descent from their sources, and are thus properly represented as the seven planetary (and global) genii or rectors.

Ialdabaoth's mother, Sophia Achamoth (wisdom of the lower four of the cosmic planes) is the daughter or manifested reflection of the Heavenly Sophia -- divine wisdom, or the mahat-side of akasa. Therefore Ialdabaoth is equivalent to the Nazarene Demiourgos of the Codex Nazaraeus, which makes him identical with the Hebrew Jehovah, the creator of the physical earth and the material side of the rector of the planet Saturn. He is also identical with Tsebaoth-Adamas, "the Pthahil of the Codex Nazaraeus, the Demiurge of the Valentinian system, the Proarchose of the Barbelitae, the Great Archon of Basilides and the Elohim of Justinus, etc. Ialdabaoth (the Child of Chaos) was . . . the Chief of the Creative Forces and the representative of one of the classes of Pitris" (BCW 13:43n). In the Ophite scheme he is the first of the superior septenate.

As a creative spirit, Ialdabaoth generates six sons (the lower terrestrial angels or stellar spirits) without assistance of any female, and when these sons strive with him he creates Ophiomorphos, the serpent-shaped spirit of all that is basest in matter. When Ialdabaoth proclaims that he is Father and God, and that none is above him, Sophia tells him that the first and second Anthropos (heavenly man) are above him. So Ialdabaoth's sons create a man, Adam, to whom Ialdabaoth gives the breath of life, emptying himself of creative power. Having rebelled against his mother, his production is mindless and has to be endowed with mind by Sophia Achamoth -- a reference to the descent of the manasaputras. The man, thus informed, aspires away from his producer, who thereupon becomes his adversary, produces the three lower kingdoms of beings, and imprisons man in a house of clay (flesh). Ialdabaoth also makes Eve (Lilith) to deprive the man of his light powers. Sophia sends the serpent or intelligence to make Adam and Eve transgress the commands of Ialdabaoth, who casts them from Paradise into the world along with the serpent. Sophia deprives Adam and Eve of their light power, but eventually restores this power so that they awoke mentally. Here there is much the same confusion that surrounds the various meanings of Satan and the serpent.

Ialdabaoth, who is lion-headed or in the form of a lion, represents the kama principle, the false light that draws the soul into matter and struggles against its rise again to spirit. Some Gnostics held that Sophia sent Christos to help humankind when Ialdabaoth and his forces were shutting out the divine light, and Ialdabaoth, "discovering that Christos was bringing to an end his kingdom of Matter, stirred up the Jews, his own people, against Him, and Jesus was put to death" (BCW 14:161).

This ties into to one of my favorite works of fiction - PKD's VALIS.

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: Middleman]
    #8467031 -



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8467888 -

You should study Pentecostalism or Eastern Orthodoxy. Sophia is the word for "spirit", and makes up a third of the Catholic "Father, son, and holy spirit".

The holy spirit can possess you, according to some religions, and this possession brings you in complete union with all of creation. Sophia is the spirit of creation, the union of the christ consciousness with the manifestation of the world. People in union with this spirit often speak in tongues, laugh uncontrollably, or turn to their friends and say "Dude, this is some really fucking good acid".


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While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: kriminalelement]
    #8468046 -

Actually, Sophia means Wisdom (as in philosophy = love of wisdom), and Wisdom has never been accepted into Trinitarian theology as a distinct Hyposthesis. There have been attempts by Eastern Orthodox theologians to do so, but it has been considered heretical. Sometimes Sophia has been allowed to be identified with the "Uncreated Energy" that emanates from a triune Godhead in Orthodoxy.

I am not a Trinitarian Christian, I am a Monotheist Messianic Jewish Gnostic :wink: and yes, I have read some Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Pentacostalism is too emotional for my particular liking, and emotion is often mistaken for some supernatural intervention.

Peace.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8468062 -

When it comes to religions IMO, emotion is everything. Praise de lawd.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: Icelander]
    #8468077 -

Quote:
Actually, Sophia means Wisdom (as in philosophy = love of wisdom), and Wisdom has never been accepted into Trinitarian theology as a distinct Hyposthesis. There have been attempts by Eastern Orthodox theologians to do so, but it has been considered heretical. Sometimes Sophia has been allowed to be identified with the "Uncreated Energy" that emanates from a triune Godhead in Orthodoxy.


You might be correct from some theological standpoints, but I went to Catholic school and went through some pretty hardcore theological training. "Sophia" is the Holy spirit of the trinity.

Do you know what the Hagia Sophia is? It is the largest church in Orthodox Christianity and is currently located in Istanbul. Sophia is intensely important to Eastern Orthodoxy.


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: kriminalelement]
    #8468098 -

Catholicism is the true religion.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: kriminalelement]
    #8468123 -

kriminalelement said:
You should study Pentecostalism or Eastern Orthodoxy. Sophia is the word for "spirit", and makes up a third of the Catholic "Father, son, and holy spirit".


In what language? The tradition Latin Mass uses "spiritus sancti," not "sophia." I think you are mistaken. "Hagia Sophia" means holy wisdom.

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: Veritas]
    #8468131 -

I believe in Sophia Loren. When I look at her I feel the spirit move within me.:whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: Icelander]
    #8468251 -

Icelander said:
I believe in Sophia Loren. When I look at her I feel the spirit move within me.:whoa:


AMEN!


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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8468254 -

Thanks for the mammories and the pic.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: kriminalelement]
    #8468283 -

Yes, well, you're getting Eastern Orthodoxy confused and confounded with Latin Christianity. They differ on most every theological point.

You probably were also taught things like the virginity of Mary because no one until recently has pointed out that the author named Matthew took his quoted version of Isaiah from the Greek instead of the Hebrew and he made a collosal mistake. So, because 'parthenos' means virgin and young woman in Greek, but the Hebrew has two words - 'almah' and 'bertolah' for young woman and for virgin, he mistranslated by using the Greek Pentateuch and in doing so the virgin mother theology was inadvertantly created.

There are so many things that your Catholic education never did or never will teach you. Add to this the anti-Semitism taught by Roman Catholicism and you will hopefully come to understand just WHY Jews never embraced a Greek demigod (of a god and a mortal woman) as the Christ or Messiah. Jesus the Jew is not taught in Catholic catechism. I went through Catholic catechism myself when I was baptized in the RC Church :blush:, just before I entered a Methodist seminary for two years. Now, I've had a full 30 years after seminary to complete much of my religious education.

Here's a recommendation for YOU: Read Rev. John Shelby Spong's Liberating the Gospels: Reading the Bible With Jewish Eyes, and then get back to me.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8468329 -

Quote:
In what language? The tradition Latin Mass uses "spiritus sancti," not "sophia." I think you are mistaken. "Hagia Sophia" means holy wisdom.


I'm not mistaken. Sophia means wisdom, to the Catholics it also means spirit. And you're correct about it not being Latin. It's greek.

Edit: I see where the misunderstanding is. You're talking about the etymology of the word, it's literal Greek meaning. Since the OP asked about the CONCEPT of "Sophia" and not it's literal definition, I answered that to the Catholics it means spirit.

Let me explain why this is. In Catholicism wisdom is synonymous with spirit.

Catholics place a lot of emphasis on the Fall. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge and became self aware. Their self-awareness begat their consciousness, which is synonymous with wisdom and knowledge.

This was their original sin. Original sin is present to the Catholics in everyone. Everyone is sinful because everyone is self-aware.

Jesus Christ came to save the world from original sin. Without this original sin, we would be unable to be saved by Christ. Our salvation due to consciousness and wisdom is what CREATES the spirit.

When I was in Catholic school the teachers had us make a little drawing with a prayer on it for someone who had died and was in heaven. One girl drew her dog on the card and the teacher made her take it down (pretty harsh thing to do to a seven-year-old). But the point was because the dog was not self aware, it did not have a spirit.

Sophia is the symbol that references how our consciousness unites us with Christ. Without knowledge, there is no spirit, and without spirit, there is no wisdom. They are one and the same.


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs

Edited by kriminalelement (05/31/08 07:05 PM)

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Re: various sources / versions of the Gnostic myth of Sophia? [Re: kotik]
    #8468364 -

www.markosthegnostic.org


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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