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OfflineAlan Stone
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Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels
    #3354838 - 11/13/04 09:18 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

I recently saw a documentary on Dutch national tv about Jesus and the Gospel of Thomas. Bottom line: the Catholic Church has been fighting Gnosticism until the Dark Ages, and again starting from the Renaissance.

What is Gnosticism, you might ask? According to the documentary, a Gnostic is a person who seeks the God within. He believes we are all shards of the divine essence (that we all have a divine spark within), and that only knowlegde of the Self can lead to enlightenment. Jesus - for a Gnostic - was a mortal man, and he was the son of God just as we all are God's children.
They are the ones who look for the message behind the Bible's words (not the literal interpretation), who go their own way, and who realise we're all divine by nature.

This is a call out to all Gnostic members of these boards. How did you find out about Gnosticism? Did it come naturally? Have you come across any Gnostic Gospels besides the Gospel of Thomas?
Are there any Gnostic teachers? Or are you all individualists?
To all non-Gnostic (non-)Christians: how do you feel about it?

I guess what I'm looking for is a personal (as opposed to a cold, researched) introduction to Gnosticism. I think it could be (as I'm not yet sufficiently familiar with the tenets) a great Path to walk, and I'd like some personal insights.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3354840 - 11/13/04 09:21 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Though I would probably never label myself with something as specific as "Gnostic", I do tend to find my ideas side with what I have read of Gnosticism MUCH more closely than they do with any other religion I am aware of.

I particularly like the idea of looking within to find the answer. I am highly introverted :smirk:

Edit: And yes, I did stumble into this realization more by chance than anything. When I first became interested in MarkostheGnostic's posts I of course wanted to find out what a "Gnostic" was. What I read seemed very familiar to me. I've spent much of my life entertaining ideas that turned out to be a part of Gnosticism


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Edited by trendal (11/13/04 09:24 AM)


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: trendal]
    #3354845 - 11/13/04 09:28 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

That's exactly why I was fascinated by that documentary :laugh:


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3354848 - 11/13/04 09:32 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)



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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3354851 - 11/13/04 09:34 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)


Excellent.

www.gnosis.org - The Gnosis Archive. You will find pretty much everything you need here. You can Google Gnosticism, but there aren't as many sites that truly understand Christian Mysticism.

Another good site is at: www.gnosticchristianity.com

While I am not a Christian Gnostic, I am a Muslim one, although in my tradition we don't use the greek word as Christian Mystics do (I simply use it since the word has long transcended its confinement to Greek). A Muslim Gnostic is known as an Arif (knower), and gnosis to esoteric Muslims is called Irfan (knowledge).

MarkostheGnostic can surely fill you in on Christian Gnosticism, Kabbalism, Mother-Father-Son, Sophia, Kabbalism, Tree of Life, and all your needs to understand the science of the subliminal ecstasy known as God. :grin:



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Edited by zahudulallah (11/13/04 09:41 AM)


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3354857 - 11/13/04 09:40 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Thanks, mandelbrot ! I bookmarked the links, and I'm off to explore after this post.

Zahudulallah, I'm not only interested in the Christian version. Are there any personal insights you'd like to share?


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3354873 - 11/13/04 09:59 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

a good place to start at yr local library is the books of dr elaine pagels...


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3354874 - 11/13/04 10:00 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

I suppose, like Trendal, while I don't really like to label myself as any one such thing, I definitely DO relate strongly to the description you've given.

After struggling with Christianity for a number of years, then moving onto a state of "no religion, no spirituality" for a long while, eventually (after some psychedelic journeys that I found very enlightening) I ended up developing my own opinions and spiritual stance.. and it just so happens that this, coincedentally, coincides (is that redundant?) with the description of Gnosticism you've given.

Guess I am Gnostic, in a way.. but at the same time I fully support the idea of allowing my beliefs to evolve freely.. and to try not to come to inconclusive conclusions. (is that an oxymoron?) For these reasons I tend to not go with the label of Gnostic, because I don't really understand where that "spark" that is in each of us came from. I don't "know" that it is GOD inside of each of us. I just know it's an incredible and wonderful thing, and that it should be treasured deeply and dearly by all.

Perhaps it's just the over-generalization and presumptions of the meaning of the word "god" that I try to avoid; and therefore feel the need to seperate myself from.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3355380 - 11/13/04 01:30 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Gnosticism and Gnostic Religion is a broad topic and embodies the teachings of many teachers. I recommend that you begin your search with Professor Elaine Pagels book 'The Gnostic Gospels,' and then read her book 'The Gnostic Paul.' The first is a readable general introduction, the second book goes straight to the very heart of the conflict: whether Paul's writings were intended to be understood Gnostically (as Pagel's illustrates so well), or whether his writings were to be interpreted along the lines upon which Christianity was constructed.

A Gnostic reading of Paul, like most Gnostic interpretations does not make the mainstream doctrine of the Vicarious Sacrifice the center of Christian belief - all that language (that my Lady's mother often uses) about 'being cleansed in the blood of the Lamb.' The Vicarious Sacrifice doctrine is that a cruel execution served as the 'rending of profane history' that allowed a specific Divine process to enter the Human condition, available to anyone who believes in the Name of Jesus. My Greek Orthodox friend points out that it is the Resurrection that defines Christianity, not the crucifixion-death. The Resurrection is described as a historical event, but many Gnostics understand, once again, that 'midrash' - Jewish story-telling of spiritual ideas - are NOT to be read as historical, empirical events. Resurrection, in its essence is Christian Mystery.

The Gnostic understanding sees the historical storyline (factual or mythic) to symbolize a continual process of crucifixion of the self - the same notion as 'ego-death' so often spoken of at the Shroomery. For Gnostics there are 3 divisions of spiritual development: the Hylics or Sarkics [sarx=flesh]who are essentially materialists, sensualists and basically living a mammalian existence.

The next division, an intermediary level, are the Psychic Christians who understand scriptures in terms of the Vicarious Sacrifice doctrine, and whose discipline is living by faith and doing good works. Psychics can develop to the next level.

The final division are the Pneumatic [pneuma=spirit] Christians, who comprise the Gnostics. Gnosis, unlike the word 'Episteme' (which refers to knowledge about phenomenon, scientific, empirical knowledge), refers to a form of Knowing that is experiential. More specifically, Spiritual Experience, including but not limited to what we call Entheogenic Experiences (Psychedelic Experiences). It is uncertain whether substances were employed by Gnostics, but there are ancient mosaics that illustrate the Amanita Muscaria mushroom. Gnostic Christianity, widely practiced until Constantine came down on them and destroyed their scriptures, had doctrines that approximate the Self-Realization doctrines of Indian thought. GOD is Present, and His/Her Presence is to be Realized within. This understanding leaves no need for sacraments and the holders of the sacraments, the priests, and by extension, the whole Church. The movie 'Stigmata' was about this. Some Docetic Gnostics maintained that Jesus was not a Human and had only a 'phantom body,' among other things, and this was the main problem that the new Catholic Church condemned. Alternatively, other Gnostics believed that someone else had died in Jesus' place. This, BTW is how Jesus is presented in the Qu'ran.

The Divinity of Jesus (Iesus, Issa, Y'shua) does not have to be compromised by His Humanity, but today as in the past, it is important to fully understand the notion of 'midrash.' Educated Buddhists, for example, understand that the story about lotus blossoms springing up from the baby Buddha's first steps, is mythos, is spiritual 'highlighting' and not historical. The same with stories of the Buddha's Virgin Birth. The Sacrality of Jesus and Buddha are not in any way diminished by an understanding of the mythic overlays. For the best Christian explanation (non-Gnostic but enlightening) is the book 'Liberating the Gospels: Reading the Bible With Jewish Eyes' by John Shelby Spong. The title 'Son of God' was used throughout the OT for the Divine Right of Kingship -all the OT kings were considered to be Sons of God. Gentiles, unfamiliar with Judaism continue to misunderstand the term as being unique to Jesus, whom they called "King of the Jews" in mockery. Later, the metaphysical overlay that occurred with Trinitarian doctrine (something no 1st century Jew would've known about) changed Matthew's "Anointed" [Christed] Son of Man (Jesus) into John's version of Christ which was 'God clothed in flesh' - Very Very different status!! This theology has overtaken Matthew's, Mark's and Luke's versions of Jesus as a man "Anointed" by GOD, and turned Him into GOD Incarnate. Hellenistic mythology - a Hero born of a god and a mortal woman! Not Jewish thought or belief at all. HELLO world!! Wake-up time!!!

I am a Jewish Christian Gnostic with no specific place to worship, and so, our home is a Sacred Space, Jesus is still my Master, GOD is NOT a Demiurge and evil, and Realizing Christ [Consciousness] - making Christ the Real Center of my psycho-somatic-pneumatic Self is the discipline (my Discipleship).

+++ May your Psychophysical Heart be transformed into a Sacred Heart. Peace +++


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3355732 - 11/13/04 03:01 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

The "Gnosticism" in the Gospel of Thomas isn't really all that gnostic. When you get into guys like Marcion, Valentinius, and Basilides, that is real gnosticism, although there never was a unified or singular gnostic christianity.
Personally I'm not all that impressed with talk about the Demiurge and free oneself from this reality through hedonism. I'll stick with the Gospel of Thomas.


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2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3356035 - 11/13/04 04:17 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Thanks for the insights. I'll buy those ASAP.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3356259 - 11/13/04 05:11 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Marcion is useless to me, Valentinus makes some important points, but the whole elaborate creation myth that leads up to Wisdom birthing the abortive Demiurge also has little bearing on me. You are right, Thomas is often refuted as being non-Gnostic because of the lack of counter-cosmology or reference to the Demiurge, but the Gnostic element that IS important in Thomas is the fact that it represents a fully realized eschatology with the Divine Presence dwelling immanently in the Here and Now, available to all of us, and continuing, for us, in pure Transcendence after we die.

Christianity as it has always been is a partially realized eschatology insofar as mainstream Christianity has always attributed the 'fullness' to a completion in history, which means time, the future. Saint Paul was very wrong in much of his admonishments not to marry, or plan a life here, because he believed that the 'end times,' or 'the end of time' was meant to be taken as historical events, and moreover, it was to occur any any moment - heralded by Jesus' return in glory! It didn't happen then, and it hasn't happened yet in the way that most people understand it . From the understanding of a fully realized eschatology like Thomas, the 'end of time' means a transcendence of time, here and now, in the same way that the book 'BE HERE NOW' illustrates it. THIS is the Gnosis that is most important to me - the Eternal Present is THE Gnosis that Entheogens have imparted to me. It is Self-Realization in the mystical sense that our Higher Self is co-extensive with GOD. Our Higher Self is Christ - the Inner Man - and as Christ and GOD are One, inasmuch as we are transformed by Christ, transformed into Christ in our core Self, WE are One with GOD.

That this theosis requires grace and that grace is not necessarily dependent upon the mediation of a Sacrament belonging to Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant traditions, is still considered to be 'wrong view,' which in a word is 'heresy.'

BTW, not all or even many of the Gnostic sects were libertines like the Carpocratians, who allegedly held semen and menses to be the sacrament to be consumed, and who practiced free sex, but aborted and consumed the Human embryos
if pregnancy occured. Such perversions, true or fanciful were behind the eventual violent persecutions of any and all Gnostics (but of course, operating outside of the tithe-taking, indulgence-selling corruption of the church power structure was really behind most persecutions of heretics be they pagans, Jews, witches or whatever).


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3356462 - 11/13/04 06:05 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

one of the problems that authoritairian, centralized, trinitarian christian orthodoxy had with gnostic church congregations was that they were egalitarian, decentralized, and not in line with the developing trinitarian doctrine...
at the church office level, the titles of deacon, priest, bishop, etc. were chosen by lot, and would rotate among all eligible communicants, including women...
at the theological level, the nature of jesus' assumption of the title of "annointed" was a problem - some gnostics held that the christos left the body of the carpenter rabbi yeshua beffore the nails were driven in & watched the whole scene laughing at the antics...
and even higher up - the nature & even name of the father (some factions identifying the YHVH of the jewish scriptures as the demi-urge samael, a blinded clumsy artisan responsible for creating a fouled-up ball of mud and blood and suffering and death), with the messiah/christis being a divine invasion by the forces of light into this sorry realm...
and sophia/wisdom dripping drops of light into our darkness, & archons, and the serpent in the garden as the voice of truth in the genesis creation story, and plenty more, hehheh...

ymmv...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


Edited by gnrm23 (11/13/04 06:12 PM)


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3356505 - 11/13/04 06:16 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Good lord, where is my dictionary...  :confused:  :confused:


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3358353 - 11/14/04 02:43 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

I personally follow the Essene Christian belief. It is exactly as described in the original topic starter's post.


www.essene.com


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3358553 - 11/14/04 03:33 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

I follow more or less the Ageless Wisdom teachings. They don't really have a name, but are called that for reference only. "The Way that can be named is not the constant Way." The teachings are basically the common thread that runs through the heart of the major religions not specific to any particular era or region.

Gnosticism is pretty close to what I believe, except for the part about the creator being mad or evil. I believe truth is where you find it, in books (religous or otherwise), in events, people, every thing every place. Life is religion and God's temple is everywhere.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: Jellric]
    #3359075 - 11/14/04 09:46 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
I follow more or less the Ageless Wisdom teachings. They don't really have a name, but are called that for reference only. "The Way that can be named is not the constant Way." The teachings are basically the common thread that runs through the heart of the major religions not specific to any particular era or region.





Ooo, Ooo, I really like that.. that definitely describes my stance very well.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3359772 - 11/14/04 02:18 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Without  trying to appear pedantic (I don't have to try, it comes naturally :smile: ), I should have added a recent book that would encompass the others and flesh out the topic. My Lady is reading it now and when I saw it out I realized that I should have included it:  Lost Christianities: The  Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew by Bart D. Ehrman (who has been on The History Channel, A&E, CNN and elswhere).


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: gnrm23]
    #3359911 - 11/14/04 02:43 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)



True Dat, gnrm23. The attachment is of a lovely Gnostic 'Tau' - Rosamonde [World Rose?] Miller, the first female Gnostic Bishop in the Ecclesia Gnostica Mysteriorum, since the early days of Gnosticism, and a present day representative of the Divine Feminine.

"The tenets of the Ecclesia Gnostica Mysteriorum itself are not a slavish following of historical Gnostic doctrines, but a pursuit of gnosis, drawing on all levels of the perennial wisdom of the Western tradition. It encourages all people to find their personal path and rejects doctrine, theology or dogma, preferring the mystic and allegorical traditions of the salvific story. This tradition of storytelling is a venerable one in the tradition of wisdom....The Ecclesia teaches that 'gnosis cannot be given or passed on. We can only teach the individual to reach the state in which gnosis can manifest'." - from 'Sophia: Goddess of Wisdom' by Caitlin Matthews


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (01/07/06 12:39 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Gnosticism & Gnostic Gospels [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3359956 - 11/14/04 02:52 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Al-laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!

Also... www.thepearl.org

Asalaam Aleichem.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (11/14/04 03:02 PM)


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