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a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people
    #8211781 -

One can not be forgiven unless A.they are truly sorry and understand the depth of their wrong and B. they forgive themselves truly aka not forgetting.

And ill put out true evil was created the day ignorance and confusion were breed and the to take it further romped a.nd stomped on truth and hid it away from the world


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Edited by thedudenj (03/29/08 08:05 PM)

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: thedudenj]
    #8212322 -

I will use the term justification instead of forgiveness. Justification is NOT contingent on repentance. The concept of the performance of meritorious acts to synergize with grace and thereby obtain a justified state has its roots in Romanism. The so called "Protestants" of today are really warmed over Romanists in that they usually will say the act of faith, (which is a meritorious act) obtains justification and man has a will that is softened by the work of the Spirit, but that man must perform the acts that obtain the justification. They are both missing the gospel entirely. Forgiveness (justification) is UNCONDITIONAL. No acts obtain it or maintain it, it is completely without condition. Grace by definition is free. Faith is the gift of God. God has freely chosen to justify a people for Himself, and in due time gives them the truth of the gospel and the Spirit indwells them.

False religion almost always has the message that man has some inherent goodness that needs to cultivated. The gospel declares man has no inherent goodness but relies entirely on the mercy of God for justification.

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: thedudenj]
    #8212347 -

thedudenj said:
One can not be forgiven unless A.they are truly sorry and understand the depth of their wrong and B. they forgive themselves truly aka not forgetting.

And ill put out true evil was created the day ignorance and confusion were breed and the to take it further romped a.nd stomped on truth and hid it away from the world


thanks for clearing that all up for us.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: fivepointer]
    #8212356 -

thedud,

how can I know with 100% certainty that I am truly sorry? is there a way I can measure my forgiveness against the forgiveness others?

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: fivepointer]
    #8212359 -

thats a nice way to put it


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: fivepointer]
    #8212389 -

False religion almost always has the message that man has some inherent goodness that needs to cultivated. The gospel declares man has no inherent goodness but relies entirely on the mercy of God for justification.

Well the truth here is that it is god that is inherently evil. Your god is anyway, and a little ugly on the side. He's a coward. (not that such a moronic creature really exists but you need to be indulged a little because IMO you have a grudge against mommy and daddy or some such nonsense)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: Icelander]
    #8212428 -

The truth that God justifies those without any redeeming value is proof of His goodness. But you choose this as the evidence that He is inherently evil. Amazing.

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: Icelander]
    #8212433 -

Quote:
False religion almost always has the message that man has some inherent goodness that needs to cultivated. The gospel declares man has no inherent goodness but relies entirely on the mercy of God for justification.


A nice excuse for abdicating personal responsibility for one's own life and state of mind. It also nicely mirrors the hierarchical structure of state level society. god-the-king has a monopoly on wisdom and agency and doles out favor to us lowly paeons in exchange for servitude.

What constitutes "false religion", in my books, is any ideology that diminishes and degrades the personal strength and potential for growth of it's members.

Edited by NiamhNyx (03/29/08 09:53 PM)

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: fivepointer]
    #8212451 -

Thank you. :thumbup: but your dick brain god only justifies certain people that are his chosen:monkeydance: and the rest go to hell.

But as a thinking person I know that humans are both good and bad, skillful and unskillful, loving and hating. And having some small measure of courage and love I choose to believe the opposite of you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: appleorange]
    #8212504 -

appleorange said:
thedud,

how can I know with 100% certainty that I am truly sorry?



That is the fairy dust problem--It will only work if you believe hard enough. It will only work if you are Reealllly sorry, only if you really believe the bible is true.

Catholics get around the problem with confession. The priest has direct power from God to forgive sins, so if you tell him your sins and then tell him you are sorry for not being sorry enough, then he can channel God's mercy and forgive you anyway. The only problem with this approach is that you reeallly have to believe the priest has special power to get much consolation from the ritual.

The cool part about the confession thing is you don't have to even believe it will really work, you just have to hope it will work.

I guess you could also hope you really believe the Bible, hope that you have really accepted Jesus as your personal lord and savior... hope that you really have been saved.


Muslims are more like the catholics than protestants in that they rely on ritual.


In ritualistic religions faith is important, but but it is faith in a ritual, rather than in ones own thoughts and his ability to judge his own thoughts.


--------------------
come together

Edited by AnastomosisJihad (03/29/08 09:54 PM)

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8212508 -

NiamhNyx said:
Quote:
False religion almost always has the message that man has some inherent goodness that needs to cultivated. The gospel declares man has no inherent goodness but relies entirely on the mercy of God for justification.


A nice excuse for abdicating personal responsibility for one's own life state of mind. It also nicely mirrors the hierarchical structure of state level society. god-the-king has a monopoly on wisdom and agency and doles out favor to us lowly paeons in exchange for servitude.

What constitutes "false religion", in my books, is any ideology that diminishes and degrades the personal strength and potential for growth of it's members.


Nothing needs to be exchanged for servitude, since free grace is absent of condition, servitude is out of thanksgiving and not out of obligation.

You believe that you have "potential for growth", yet the scripture declares all spiritually dead and in need of a new birth and new spiritual life. The gospel is an offense to self-righteous religionists.

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: fivepointer]
    #8212514 -

Check out your number of posts. I knew it all along.:hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: fivepointer]
    #8212552 -

Any religion that requires servitude is a destructive delusion, designed by power mongers to manipulate and control the populace.

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8212565 -

Amen


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: Icelander]
    #8212570 -

In Christianity, do you only have to accept Christ to go to heaven? Once you accept him is it ok to go about your business?

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: Icelander]
    #8212571 -

Icelander said:
Thank you. :thumbup: but your dick brain god only justifies certain people that are his chosen:monkeydance: and the rest go to hell.

But as a thinking person I know that humans are both good and bad, skillful and unskillful, loving and hating. And having some small measure of courage and love I choose to believe the opposite of you.


Your belief is in a god that doesn't exist.  Do you just make things up as you go to whatever suits your needs?

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: fivepointer]
    #8212578 -

fivepointer said:
Your belief is in a god that doesn't exist. Do you just make things up as you go to whatever suits your needs?


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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: fivepointer]
    #8212706 -

fivepointer said:
Icelander said:
Thank you. :thumbup: but your dick brain god only justifies certain people that are his chosen:monkeydance: and the rest go to hell.

But as a thinking person I know that humans are both good and bad, skillful and unskillful, loving and hating. And having some small measure of courage and love I choose to believe the opposite of you.


Your belief is in a god that doesn't exist.  Do you just make things up as you go to whatever suits your needs?


Yes, of course. Don't you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #8212716 -

AnastomosisJihad said:
appleorange said:
thedud,

how can I know with 100% certainty that I am truly sorry?



That is the fairy dust problem--It will only work if you believe hard enough. It will only work if you are Reealllly sorry, only if you really believe the bible is true.

Catholics get around the problem with confession. The priest has direct power from God to forgive sins, so if you tell him your sins and then tell him you are sorry for not being sorry enough, then he can channel God's mercy and forgive you anyway. The only problem with this approach is that you reeallly have to believe the priest has special power to get much consolation from the ritual.

The cool part about the confession thing is you don't have to even believe it will really work, you just have to hope it will work.

I guess you could also hope you really believe the Bible, hope that you have really accepted Jesus as your personal lord and savior... hope that you really have been saved.


Muslims are more like the catholics than protestants in that they rely on ritual.


In ritualistic religions faith is important, but but it is faith in a ritual, rather than in ones own thoughts and his ability to judge his own thoughts.


This is why works salvation can never give any assurance of salvation, since you never really know if you have sufficiently met the required condition. Grace has no conditions and is the only way to have rest and assurance.

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Re: a note to Christians and Catholics. other spiritual or philosphical people [Re: Icelander]
    #8212747 -

Icelander said:
fivepointer said:
Icelander said:
Thank you. :thumbup: but your dick brain god only justifies certain people that are his chosen:monkeydance: and the rest go to hell.

But as a thinking person I know that humans are both good and bad, skillful and unskillful, loving and hating. And having some small measure of courage and love I choose to believe the opposite of you.


Your belief is in a god that doesn't exist.  Do you just make things up as you go to whatever suits your needs?


Yes, of course. Don't you.


I don't create doctrine about God simply to suit me needs.  Any doctrine is derived from scripture.  Many of the doctrines are highly offensive to the unregenerate and I have offended most everyone I know, both non-Christian and so called Christian alike.  I certainly would not have created such an offensive message if I wanted something to suit my needs.

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