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About Judas
    #7743805 -

I think Judas has been misrepresented in the bible.
I think he was just doing his job of fulfilling the prophecy - that one of the close disciples had to betray Christ. Then the other few got to write about him, and they made him out to be the enemy.
One of the writers is Peter, who disowned Jesus, but it is all good since he wrote about it in the bible.

Judas was in charge of the money, so he could have taken all that and left if he really wanted money, so I do not see why he would make such a decision for 30 silver coins.

I think Judas knew that his actions would get him a bad rep throughout history, but decided to do it any ways because he really loved Jesus.

... PS.... This is based on MY understanding of the bible... which I kind off studied a while back (when I was 16-18). This is only my thought (I am  really buzzed right now), and I do not claim this to be a fact... just my point of view. I may be able to do a better job explaining this tomorrow, when I am sober... if it still makes sense. :smirk:

Abesh


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If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions?
- Scott Adams

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Re: About Judas [Re: abesh]
    #7743809 -

Is this understanding helpful for you?

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Re: About Judas [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #7744560 -

I don't know.
I guess after a lot of beer, some pot, and a pill, I felt sorry for the guy. He went down in history as the bad guy, but people do not realize that he probably made a lot of sacrifices, and followed his master around, and probably faced a lot of hardships (well this goes for all the other apostles too). Could be that he loved Jesus more than anyone else, and so he got to play the part that he did. And the Gospels seem to be quick to judge him off as a greedy backstabber, and people tend to use him as a bad example without thinking that maybe he had to play that part even though he may not have want to - maybe he did it out of love for Jesus.

Oh well! Last night I really felt like sharing this. Now I just feel like shit (and I got beer shits), and I need to get ready for class.
Abesh


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If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions?
- Scott Adams

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Re: About Judas [Re: abesh]
    #7744586 -

What gets me is how the religious types ignore/discredit ancient texts that have been discovered such as the Dead Sea scrolls and the gospel of Judas.  If I was interested in the truth of an ancient matter, I would tend think that an ancient document detailing said matter would be a lot more reliable than some book printed in the 1990's after countless revisions and omissions by the controlling, power-hungry hierarchy that is the church.  Just a thought.  If only Fivey were here to explain why such ancient documents are blasphemous and false.... :whatever:


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"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: About Judas [Re: SoY]
    #7744653 -

SoY said:
What gets me is how the religious types ignore/discredit ancient texts that have been discovered such as the Dead Sea scrolls and the gospel of Judas.  If I was interested in the truth of an ancient matter, I would tend think that an ancient document detailing said matter would be a lot more reliable than some book printed in the 1990's after countless revisions and omissions by the controlling, power-hungry hierarchy that is the church.  Just a thought.  If only Fivey were here to explain why such ancient documents are blasphemous and false.... :whatever:


fivey? Five pointer?

That kid is classic.

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Re: About Judas [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #7744685 -

I think ratting out Christ was the way to go. In my mind, the guy got a little too full of himself for his own good. Heh.



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Re: About Judas [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7745458 -

Jesus Christ Superstar portrays Judas as doing what was needed to be done, and even said "Well done, Judas".

The Gospel of Judas makes it out that him and Jesus had it planned out, unknown to the others.


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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

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Re: About Judas [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7745476 -

jonathanseagull said:
Jesus Christ Superstar portrays Judas as doing what was needed to be done, and even said "Well done, Judas".

The Gospel of Judas makes it out that him and Jesus had it planned out, unknown to the others.


Exactly. Jesus knew what had to be done and he knew that judas would be the man to do it. It's destiny.


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Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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Re: About Judas [Re: abesh]
    #7746326 -

Quote:
Then the other few got to write about him, and they made him out to be the enemy.
One of the writers is Peter, who disowned Jesus, but it is all good since he wrote about it in the bible.



Are you ignorant or just make this stuff up? The disciples wrote none of the gospels.


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Re: About Judas [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7746438 -

Remember kids, nothing really exists!:thumbup:


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Re: About Judas [Re: abesh]
    #7746613 -

abesh said:
I think Judas has been misrepresented in the bible.
I think he was just doing his job of fulfilling the prophecy - that one of the close disciples had to betray Christ. Then the other few got to write about him, and they made him out to be the enemy.
One of the writers is Peter, who disowned Jesus, but it is all good since he wrote about it in the bible.

Judas was in charge of the money, so he could have taken all that and left if he really wanted money, so I do not see why he would make such a decision for 30 silver coins.

I think Judas knew that his actions would get him a bad rep throughout history, but decided to do it any ways because he really loved Jesus.

... PS.... This is based on MY understanding of the bible... which I kind off studied a while back (when I was 16-18). This is only my thought (I am  really buzzed right now), and I do not claim this to be a fact... just my point of view. I may be able to do a better job explaining this tomorrow, when I am sober... if it still makes sense. :smirk:

Abesh


The Bible does not consist of words of men with petty backbiting and character defamation, it is the very Word of God. 

Jesus said it would have been better if Judas would have never been born:
Mr 14:21  The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Jesus did not preserve Judas and calls him the son of perdition:
Joh 17:12  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

The word for perdition (apoleia) means:
1) destroying, utter destruction
1a) of vessels
2) a perishing, ruin, destruction
2a) of money
2b) the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell


Judas even felt bad about what he did to Jesus, but that didn't save him.  Judas felt so bad he hung himself and fell down and his guts flew out:

Mt 27 - Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,4  Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.  And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Acts - Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.  For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.  Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

Jesus was slain according to the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God:

Ac 2:23  Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:


Judas was a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction to carry out God's purposes.

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Re: About Judas [Re: fivepointer]
    #7746667 -

Quote:
The Bible does not consist of words of men with petty backbiting and character defamation, it is the very Word of God.



On what do you base calling this random collection of stories the Word of God? I see no evidence for such a claim other than sheer numbers of other fallible humans making the same baseless claim.


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Re: About Judas [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7746718 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Then the other few got to write about him, and they made him out to be the enemy.
One of the writers is Peter, who disowned Jesus, but it is all good since he wrote about it in the bible.



Are you ignorant or just make this stuff up? The disciples wrote none of the gospels.


Neither or both.
Like I said, this is based on what I understood when I read bits and pieces of the bible (a long time ago), and from talking to people who went to church and what not.
I don't have a bible right now to look up, and I was fucked up last night and thinking about this. I am probably wrong, but it seems that the general consensus is Judas = bad, and I just think he is not as bad everyone thinks.

Also if the bible does not give this impression, than I am sorry, as I am just going off memory of what I understood. But I think if you ask anyone, most of them will say Judas was evil etc.


--------------------
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions?
- Scott Adams

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Re: About Judas [Re: abesh]
    #7746744 -

Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
On what do you base calling this random collection of stories the Word of God? I see no evidence for such a claim other than sheer numbers of other fallible humans making the same baseless claim.



Dah dah dah!!  Here comes the Circular Reasatron 3000.....

No really Orgone, give it up, it's pointless.

As for you Fivey:

Quote:
SoY said:
What gets me is how the religious types ignore/discredit ancient texts that have been discovered such as the Dead Sea scrolls and the gospel of Judas. If I was interested in the truth of an ancient matter, I would tend think that an ancient document detailing said matter would be a lot more reliable than some book printed in the 1990's after countless revisions and omissions by the controlling, power-hungry hierarchy that is the church. Just a thought. If only Fivey were here to explain why such ancient documents are blasphemous and false.... :whatever:


What say you?


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: About Judas [Re: abesh]
    #7746776 -

Was not talking about Judas. You wrote that one of the writers was Peter. None of the disciples wrote anything in the Bible. They were written some 3-4 generations later.


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (12/11/07 08:13 PM)

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Re: About Judas [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7746801 -

Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
 None of the disciples wrote anything in the Bible. They were written some 3-4 generations later.



[sigh]...So many people fail to realize this.  They go about saying that the bible was immaculately manifested from Jesus' left nut and the breath of god.

**the bible was written by primitive, superstitious men hundreds of years after Jesus' death  :shrug:  :sorry:


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

Edited by SoY (12/11/07 08:24 PM)

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Re: About Judas [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7746849 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Was not talking about Judas. You wrote that one of the writers was Peter. None of the disciples wrote anything in the Bible. They were written some 3-4 generations later.


There are two letters in the New Testament ascribed to Peter. Although most scholars agree that they were not actually written by him, I would not fault someone who has not studied the subject for having this mistaken belief.


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Re: About Judas [Re: SoY]
    #7746865 -

SoY said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
On what do you base calling this random collection of stories the Word of God? I see no evidence for such a claim other than sheer numbers of other fallible humans making the same baseless claim.



Dah dah dah!!  Here comes the Circular Reasatron 3000.....

No really Orgone, give it up, it's pointless.

As for you Fivey:

Quote:
SoY said:
What gets me is how the religious types ignore/discredit ancient texts that have been discovered such as the Dead Sea scrolls and the gospel of Judas. If I was interested in the truth of an ancient matter, I would tend think that an ancient document detailing said matter would be a lot more reliable than some book printed in the 1990's after countless revisions and omissions by the controlling, power-hungry hierarchy that is the church. Just a thought. If only Fivey were here to explain why such ancient documents are blasphemous and false.... :whatever:


What say you?


The Dead Sea Scrolls support the Bible as accurate.  Many Isaiah manuscripts were found with very minor differences the later manuscripts proving that God preserves His Word. 

The "gospel of Judas" is obviously not part of scripture, it was never preserved and never accepted as such, and reading of it proves that this can not be scripture but mere words of men.

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Re: About Judas [Re: fivepointer]
    #7746887 -

Quote:
Fivepointer said:
and reading of it proves that this can not be scripture but mere words of men.


Why? Because it does not fall in line with your twisted view of Christianity?

Quote:
SoY said:
the bible was written by primitive, superstitious men hundreds of years after Jesus' death :shrug: :sorry:




--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: About Judas [Re: fivepointer]
    #7746900 -

If I write two or more documents that back each other up, then they are the Word of God?


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