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i went to church tonight
    #7495984 -

Yep, I went to church. It was this gorgeous Anglican cathedral full of stained glass and intricate woodwork and I went for Compline. It's an old style service that is primarily sung in gregorian chant and happens late (9:30-10:30.) They burn frankincense in that ball thing that the catholics use, and it's incredibly intoxicating in a centering kind of way. The whole package of the beauty of the church, the heavy use of frankincense and the music and how it reverberates in that space kind of makes me understand why people get into religion. Ritual is a pretty powerful means of exploring altered states of consciousness. I can't get behind the whole Jesus is Lord thing (except, perhaps, in an extremely metaphoric kind of way,) but I can certainly appreciate the beauty of the ritual. I may make this a regular part of my life. Maybe I'll enhance it with mushrooms sometime. :mushroom2: :grin:

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7496119 -

yep, being exposed to conditions designed to put people into a hypnotic state sure is fun!

:rolleyes:

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: ravin0ff]
    #7496126 -

People cannot be hypnotized if they don't allow themselves to be. Truth. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the interaction amongst ourselves and our set and setting and the way it stimulates our senses. :smile:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: ravin0ff]
    #7496180 -

ravin0ff, do you not think that it is possible to be moved by something and yet firmly maintain a grasp upon oneself? Experiencing this service didn't make me cast aside the worldview I have so carefully and intentionally developed to embrace a religion I have heavy criticisms of. I don't know about you, but I'm capable of appreciating where things are beautiful and valuable despite the flaws of the underlying body of thought. I get what I desire to get out of the experience. I was not 'hypnotized.' It was certainly moving and grounding but that is not going to cause me to believe in church doctrine. I interpret my experiences through my own filters, and am careful to avoid absorbing the dogma associated with it. If you can't see how this is possible, than that's too bad.

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7496562 -

They handle snakes at churches around here....did you get to do any of that?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7496639 -

NiamhNyx said:
I don't know about you, but I'm capable of appreciating where things are beautiful and valuable despite the flaws of the underlying body of thought. I get what I desire to get out of the experience.


I agree, it's kind of like saying that you can't enjoy The Simpons because it's just there to sell advertising time on FOX. You can mute the commercials, you know. Or ignore them.

That being said, I'm a Christian and I miss church. I've been telling myself for years that I need to return to the flock, but I've been lone-wolfing it for a long time now. It's hard. I need to stop making excuses. Part of the problem is my work hours. I work Sunday mornings at 11AM, and don't get done Wednesday 'till after 7pm.

I live in the largest Lutheran community in my city, however - there are at least a dozen churches in easy walking distance. I bet one of them has convenient hours for me.


--------------------
All posts were channeled through the user by typing the thoughts of telepathic beings.  All photos are of paranormal origin and do not represent the physical world, as we know it.  BrandNoob shall not be held accountable for the actions of deceased or hyperdimensional individuals.

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: ravin0ff]
    #7496883 -

Sounds like a great way get out of your thoughts for a while and just be present.  That's a valuable experience, good for the soul.  I bet you felt at peace when you left that building.

ravin0ff said:
yep, being exposed to conditions designed to put people into a hypnotic state sure is fun!

:rolleyes:


sounds like exactly what the ego would say.  "NO, NO, Church is a scam!  STOP IGNORING ME!!! YOU NEED ME!"


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7496910 -

I definitely agree with you.  I personally don't believe in god, but there is something to be said about experience of being in a religious place.  The smells, the chants, just soak in the atmosphere :thumbup:



--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7496935 -

fireworks_god said:
People cannot be hypnotized if they don't allow themselves to be.


are you sure

i was stoned and i went to class and i knew my professors voice was going to hypnotise me and i couldn't resist it
BrandNoob said:
NiamhNyx said:
I don't know about you, but I'm capable of appreciating where things are beautiful and valuable despite the flaws of the underlying body of thought. I get what I desire to get out of the experience.


I agree, it's kind of like saying that you can't enjoy The Simpons because it's just there to sell advertising time on FOX. You can mute the commercials, you know. Or ignore them.


the only way to be impervious to the effects of commercials is to have a tivo

this is because commercials chop up the artistic content of the program making it less valuable and in turn the program must deliberately design itself that it WILL be chopped up

muting them is a wonderful option indeed but you still have to stare at them.

not saying that in this instance much is going on in your head, something is though because the flicking is designed to be emitted at certain brainwave frequencies in order to disarm the mind's ability to sustain conscious intention or be discriminative

perhaps best if you watch commercials is to do so with a vigilant mind then and learn exactly what they are trying to tell you.

I think chanting is wonderful, I learned how to chant like those Gregorian monks a while ago, they do it in the second chakra in a very soothing and gentle and pure and innocent voice.

It is nice.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: shakercee]
    #7497072 -

shakercee said:
I definitely agree with you.  I personally don't believe in god, but there is something to be said about experience of being in a religious place.  The smells, the chants, just soak in the atmosphere :thumbup:




Exactly. As soon as I discover some non religious place that offers such a meditative atmosphere and ritual, I'm there. But you gotta hand it to the medieval christians - they sure knew how to appeal to the senses. The problem with protestants was that with thier criticisms of the catholic church they sacked the most pleasurable parts of the whole thing. The aesthetic beauty of the church and the near psychedelic quality of the ritual. That's the good stuff. Protestants build some goddamn ugly buildings.

And no, Hue, Anglicans aren't into snake handling, but that could certainly add a whole new dynamic to the service, maybe I ought to recommend it to them. :smirk:

Edited by NiamhNyx (10/08/07 01:20 PM)

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7497230 -

:whoa:Dear girl, Please do be careful.:hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7497254 -

Once I was walking down the street mid day in Michigan and heard this beautiful organ music coming from a church. I ducked in. The organist was practicing and taking a break from the regular fare and playing some ELP. (Emerson, Lake and Palmer). So I too felt the spirit. On a big ol (it was a giant pipe)church organ in an empty church it was cosmic. I decided then and there to take some LSD. Of course in those days I did that two or three times a week anyway.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/08/07 02:04 PM)

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7497372 -

to NiamhNyx and shakercee: what makes these buildings religious? especially if you say you do not believe in the things these buildings represent (although, I suppose that representation could be subjective)


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: demiu5]
    #7497419 -

I was not born a skeptic. I grew up enjoying the stories of various hindu gods and goddesses, terrific stuff, Ramayana and Mahabharata..Besides that, i always looked forward to the festivals...good stuff to eat.

Yeah i cant rip off those sweet memories.


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: demiu5]
    #7497589 -

demius said:
to NiamhNyx and shakercee: what makes these buildings religious? especially if you say you do not believe in the things these buildings represent (although, I suppose that representation could be subjective)


Cathedrals are built with the intention of inspiring awe. The intention is that the awe be of the power of God, which of course is not my response. Everything about the atmosphere, the high ceilings, the arches, woodwork, stained glass everywhere, the smell of the wood, the smell of the frankincense, the eerie silence only possible in such a cavernous space, the darkness with just the most subtle candlelight... and then the music. They have one of those massive pipe organs Icelander mentioned and the style of chant is incredibly haunting. It's just a really well put together sensory experience. It is designed to be incredibly relaxing and grounding. It does not require christian faith to appreciate this. All is interpretation, and I am fully capable of interpreting my experience to suit my views and needs and not be converted to a faith I object to because I enjoy some aspect of thier worship. And hey, a lot of European paganism is buried in the rituals of the Church.

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7497825 -

Your experience is behind the building of Gothic cathedrals that took 300 years to complete. The vision was to elicit states of religious awe with the high vaulted ceilings, open up-swept spaces, mandalic rose windows, choirs of voices resonating in these structures that amplified sound and voice like nothing heard anywhere else on Earth. The sunlight filtering through the stained glass, the rarified scent of frankincense and myrrh (connected to the Biblical stories), the gold and fine vestments of the priests, and of course the mass chanted in Latin (the effect on the commoner not to be underestimated), and the sacred stories (replete with fearful warnings of Hell) etc. were all intended to shift the consciousness of people dramatically.

Unfortunately, the power to alter people's consciousness needs to be held by gentle people, but the people who had the power to build and furnish cathedrals were not the kind of people who would use immense power for gentle ends. There's was an agenda that would repay the price of those cathedrals many times from the pockets of those who could least afford to spare a penny. If that were not enough, Roman imperialism under a new banner attempted world-conquest again in the Name of Jesus Christ. Anyone questioning the doctrines of orthodoxy would be put to death in typically cruel Roman ways - Just like gentle Jesus Himself. Pagans, 'heretics,' Jews and later, Muslims would be murdered by the Holy Roman Catholic Church in the Name of God and Christ.

How very quickly the Truth attributed to Jesus became appropriated and subsumed under worldly power bent on world conquest and enslavement of the multitudes. If God was actually like the myths that the Church promulgated for centuries, bolts of heavenly fire would have utterly destroyed such a regime which was unspeakably more perverse in their crusades and inquisitions than the inhabitants of the Biblical Sodom and Gomorrah.

As to the unique divinity of Jesus the Christ: would multitudes have believed that Jesus was the model for human development if He was not so mythologized and theologized to be very God 'clothed with flesh?' Yes, He would have been accepted by the few who were seeking Self-Realization, but no, He would not have been embraced as the savior from the certainty of Hell by the multitudes of fearful human beings who were not so much hypnotized as brainwashed by the priesthood. What theology would Jesus Himself had about Himself? To be sure, it would not have been Trinitarian. For another, He would not have given Himself, a 1st century Judean Jew, the unique ontological status of Virgin-born (pure Greek mythos, not Hebrew). For another, the mystical awareness He had of "I and the Father are One," would be the Truth for each and every one of us if we could but see that "The Kingdom of Heaven is spread out upon the Earth but men see it not." Far easier for the multitudes to put Jesus on a pedestal to be worshipped than to Realize what Jesus Realized (made Real in Himself).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7497852 -

And that was that and here we is.:crazy: Pretty much a defeated humanity. Maybe evolution got a little ahead of itself with that frontal cortex thingy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7497972 -

You got it Markos. All I'm saying is that I can understand this history, heavily critique this tradition and still enjoy the sensory experience provided (on my own terms.) Understanding how they manipulate the human psyche allows me to enjoy that manipulation while not being indoctrinated.

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: Icelander]
    #7498037 -

And speaking of evolution, where did The Good Shepherd in your avatar get that baby dinosaur. Hey, you're the only one here whose avatar is really an Avatar!
But seriously, those vaulted ceilings and flying butresses are really magnificent. I've only seen Cologne Cathedral and Westminster Abbey, but I've seen pics. When you think of the book-burnings at Cologne, not to mention the heretic-burnings (Meister Eckhart almost got that treatment had he not up an died first), the juxtaposition of intellect and beauty with hatred and horror is just too much ro grok at once.

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Re: i went to church tonight [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7498134 -

If it's merely a sensory experience, it will become old rather quickly. If the sensory serves as a vehicle for bringing you into 'the zone' or 'the Now,' then it is doing what it was intended to do, without, as you say, the indoctrination. The Present IS the Presence of God in non-theistic and theistic terms. It is an aliveness that one can easily see how theistic personhood could arise.

Now, as to Trinitarian personhood, it has long fascinated me how three separate references to God got collated into the word Trinity by Tertullian (who would later be condemned for Montanist heresy himself), and how Trinitarian ideas from Augustine forward, took ONE WORD and developed huge theoretical contrivances about Ultimate Reality. THEN, these intellectual houses of cards HAD to be believed as written or else one would be tortured to death!!!

How did I ever blink these issues back when I began calling myself a Christian? Oh yes...it was the example set by Jesus as explicated in the Bible, and then in the Gospel of Thomas (and some bogus books which I soon rejected). Theology is just getting identified with the intellect, with thoughts. No matter how abstract and exalted thought becomes, it still belongs to an ontological category below 'Being.' It was the pagan philosopher Plotinus that really showed me this and that Ecstasis is the pure gnosis of the Eternal Present (and the Eternal Present is Ecstasis).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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