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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight.
    #2545753 - 04/10/04 03:21 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

If I am to take this movie as a reflection of Mel Gibson's beliefs, I can conclude that he believes the following:

--The Jews, except for those who followed Jesus, were savage barbarians without an ounce of humanity in them.

--The Romans, except for the man who condemned him to death, took great pleasure in torturing Jesus at every possible opportunity, even when it was counterproductive, such as when he was carrying the cross.

--The Romans didn't treat the two thieves with whom Jesus was crucified anywhere near as bad as they treated Jesus, even though there is no reason why they would think any more or less of them than Jesus.

--Jesus was whipped within an inch of his life before being condemned to crucifixion, even though there is no mention of such an event in the Bible.

--When Jesus died, there was a great earthquake which destroyed the great temple, even though no such event is mentioned in the Bible or in historical records.

While I did like some aspects of the movie(such as the cinematography, the fact that they spoke Aramaic, and the special effects), overall I give this movie the thumbs down.  Halfway through the movie, I found myself mumbling, "Mel Gibson, you are a fucking idiot!" :shake:


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleHELLA_TIGHT
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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2545766 - 04/10/04 03:31 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

my jesus can beat up your jesus (yay my first S&P post!)


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OfflineMycena
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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2546367 - 04/10/04 12:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

--The Jews, except for those who followed Jesus, were savage barbarians without an ounce of humanity in them.

Have you ever read the Hebrew code of laws? If you had you wouldnt expect any different. We are talking about first century here before all the advances in western thought and later some infusions of the east that made the west that bit nicer and civilised.
We are talking about a religion where people get stoned to death, where you are told by god to go into someone elses land and commit genocide etc etc... Im pretty sure all the nicer bits of judaism were incorporated in the reflective phase AFTER the diaspora

--The Romans, except for the man who condemned him to death, took great pleasure in torturing Jesus at every possible opportunity, even when it was counterproductive, such as when he was carrying the cross.

um In the army, in an occupied country where you have power over life and death, frustrated and homesick etc etc.. happens everywhere soldiers are stationed, that kind of power brings out sadism. They did it for fun and kicks just like troops today hassle and torture civilians across the globe


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: Mycena]
    #2546461 - 04/10/04 01:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mycena said:
--The Jews, except for those who followed Jesus, were savage barbarians without an ounce of humanity in them.

Have you ever read the Hebrew code of laws? If you had you wouldnt expect any different. We are talking about first century here before all the advances in western thought and later some infusions of the east that made the west that bit nicer and civilised.
We are talking about a religion where people get stoned to death, where you are told by god to go into someone elses land and commit genocide etc etc... Im pretty sure all the nicer bits of judaism were incorporated in the reflective phase AFTER the diaspora



No religion can take the humanity out of people, yet this movie manages to do just that.

Quote:

--The Romans, except for the man who condemned him to death, took great pleasure in torturing Jesus at every possible opportunity, even when it was counterproductive, such as when he was carrying the cross.

um In the army, in an occupied country where you have power over life and death, frustrated and homesick etc etc.. happens everywhere soldiers are stationed, that kind of power brings out sadism. They did it for fun and kicks just like troops today hassle and torture civilians across the globe



And yet they didn't display any such attitude to the two thieves crucified with him.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2546482 - 04/10/04 01:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
No religion can take the humanity out of people, yet this movie manages to do just that.





I think that if you were transported back to these days you would be very shockingly surprised.. what you consider "humanity" by today's standards I would think would be very rare back then.

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
And yet they didn't display any such attitude to the two thieves crucified with him.




I think this is just an example of exxageration of the situation by the film makers.. or simply an error in the writing of the film.


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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2546537 - 04/10/04 01:40 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"Jesus was whipped within an inch of his life before being condemned to crucifixion, even though there is no mention of such an event in the Bible."

Actually there was mention... , it doesent say he was almost dead, it says he was whipped 39 times which was the limit of lashes when you got flogged because at 40 the person was most likely going to die.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2546556 - 04/10/04 01:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
No religion can take the humanity out of people, yet this movie manages to do just that.





I think that if you were transported back to these days you would be very shockingly surprised.. what you consider "humanity" by today's standards I would think would be very rare back then.



I'm not saying the laws of the day weren't barbaric, but it just strikes me as odd that random people, not connected in any way with the law, would just beat the shit out of him like that and look at him like a murderer. Were there no neutral people there? Was everyone either for or against Jesus?

Quote:

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
And yet they didn't display any such attitude to the two thieves crucified with him.




I think this is just an example of exxageration of the situation by the film makers.. or simply an error in the writing of the film.



It seems way too obvious to be an error. What I would think of as an error(or just plain bad acting) is that the thieves didn't seem to be suffering all that much on the cross.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2546559 - 04/10/04 01:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

No religion can take the humanity out of people, yet this movie manages to do just that.

I beg to differ. References:
"The Crusades"
"The Inquisition"
"Trials of the Witches"
"Countless other events in history"

Consider Saint Dominic, the king of torture. He founded the Dominican order, whose priests were judges of the Inquisition. They presided while screaming victims were twisted and ripped on fiendish pain machines until they confessed to thinking unorthodox thoughts... Then the Dominicans led the broken "heretics" in grand processions to the stake.

Or consider Saint Cyril, whose monks and followers beat to death the great woman scientist, Hypatia, director of the Alexandria Library, for her scientific approach to nature.

Christians killed 3 million Jews during Europe's centuries of religious persecution, before Hitler secularized the process.

Or just take one look at President Bush and his version of BLOODCULT Christianity.
I could keep citing examples until my finger bled.
Religion makes some people act completely unhumane, has. and continues to this day.
The Third World today still sufferes bloodbaths caused by religious tribalism

Religion is always hailed as the cure for the world's evils. But all too often, it is the problem, not the solution.



Sure, the movie was probably greatly exaggerated (it's Hollywood remember?)
But I do not doubt for a second it had many elements of truth in it. What is considered 'humane' these days, was not even a concept to some people back then. We are talking about a religion where they would throw 'non-believers' into a den of hungry lions. We are talking about a religion where people would be stoned to death. What humanity are you talking about?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: Shroomism]
    #2546571 - 04/10/04 01:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not saying that people couldn't have done such barbaric things, but they just seem so one-dimensional in the movie, like they were just charicatures of evil.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2546590 - 04/10/04 01:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ahh.. well I have not yet seen the movie so I don't really know. It's certainly controversial. But you know, of course Mel Gibson? and Hollywood? are going to massively exaggerate the already sketchy details of christ's crucifixion, and skew it in such a way that christ appears to be even more of a holy martyr, and the evil roman empire, etc, etc. But according to the bible where christ was crucified, it was pretty one sided. Everyone was very much against him, and they gave him much worse treatment then to two thieves next to him. Jesus was a lot more infamous than those two thieves, and much more hated by the church. So said the bible, anyway. So it was probably exaggerated, like every other movie in hollywood that is unrealistic even if it is based on a true story.


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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: Shroomism]
    #2546591 - 04/10/04 01:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

" We are talking about a religion where they would throw 'non-believers' into a den of hungry lions"

Actually, wasen't the other way around. Example: Daniel... :lol:


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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2546595 - 04/10/04 01:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

If I remember correctly it was actually the roman catholic church that was initially against the christians and throwing them into lions dens, the christians who at that point were a silent minority. They would be fed to hungry lions for being christians and not professing their allegiances to the pope or roman emperor or whateverthefuck. How things have changed eh? Now they are the same religion practically, and certainly allies.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: Shroomism]
    #2546619 - 04/10/04 02:07 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jesus was a lot more infamous than those two thieves, and much more hated by the church.



This would not have mattered to the Romans, as they were not Jews.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2546654 - 04/10/04 02:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Huh?
I'm talking about the roman church.. the one that killed jesus and hung a sign above his head that said 'king of the jews'... even though he wasn't jewish. Jesus was a threat to the political establishment, so they crucified him. There was also a drawn out trial and whippings and a lot of controversy surrounding jesus, whereas the thieves were probably caught and put on the cross in the same hour.


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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2546656 - 04/10/04 02:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

But the majority of the population in Jerusalem was jews... at least I think... so they kinda liked to keep the crowd happy. And if doing that meant whipping a peasent preacher near death, why not?


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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2546665 - 04/10/04 02:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, but if the Jews really wanted Jesus dead that bad, and the thieves were just thieves, it'd make more sense for the Romans to spend a lot more time torturing Jesus while ignoring the petty thieves.

That, and the fact that it's Hollywood. Of course everything is exaggerated; as any great writer knows, you don't make the characters and scenes subtle, so the reader/ viewer wonders what's going on. You make it burned into their memory, and that's what the Passion of the Christ does, hence it's extreme violence and pain.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2546682 - 04/10/04 02:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

2Experimental said:
But the majority of the population in Jerusalem was jews... at least I think... so they kinda liked to keep the crowd happy. And if doing that meant whipping a peasent preacher near death, why not?



It's not just that. They beat him around in private when no one was looking, too.


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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: Shroomism]
    #2546694 - 04/10/04 02:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Um, there wasn't a "Roman Church" at the time of Christ. It was pretty much state-enforced emperor worship.
It wasn't the "Roman Catholic Church" who threw Christians to the lions -- it was the Romans, period. There was no Roman Catholic Church then, either. The earliest possible iteration would have been after the conversion of Emperor Constantine (324 AD).


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OfflineCleverName
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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: Shroomism]
    #2546703 - 04/10/04 02:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

he wasnt jewish? what was he then? i always thought he was a jew, raised up with judaism.


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Re: Saw "The Passion of Christ" tonight. [Re: valour]
    #2546715 - 04/10/04 02:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

oh, ok then. replace 'roman catholic church' with 'roman empire which led to the subsequent roman catholic church'. My mistake.

I was always under the impression jesus was NOT a jew. Maybe he was though, I wasn't there. Bah.. see.. religion gets me all confuzzled. Let's talk about cheese. mmm cheese.


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