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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq
    #7174350 -

current (uncensored) quotes from the us military

source: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article2758829.ece

Quote:
"It would always be an AK because they have so many of these lying around," said Joe Hatcher, 26, a scout with the 4th Calvary Regiment. He revealed the army also planted 9mm handguns and shovels to make it look like the civilians were shot while digging a hole for a roadside bomb.

"Every good cop carries a throwaway," Hatcher said of weapons planted on innocent victims in incidents that occurred while he was stationed between Tikrit and Samarra, from February 2004 to March 2005. Any survivors were sent to jail for interrogation.

There were also deaths caused by the reckless behaviour of military convoys. Sgt Kelly Dougherty of the Colorado National Guard described a hit-and-run in which a military convoy ran over a 10-year-old boy and his three donkeys, killing them all. "Judging by the skid marks, they hardly even slowed down. But, I mean... your order is that you never stop."

The worst abuses seem to have been during raids on private homes when soldiers were hunting insurgents. Thousands of such raids have taken place, usually at dead of night. The veterans point out that most are futile and serve only to terrify the civilians, while generating sympathy for the resistance.

Sgt John Bruhns, 29, of the 3rd Brigade, 1st Armoured Division, described a typical raid. "You want to catch them off guard," he explained. "You want to catch them in their sleep ... You grab the man of the house. You rip him out of bed in front of his wife. You put him up against the wall... Then you go into a room and you tear the room to shreds. You'll ask 'Do you have any weapons? Do you have any anti-US propaganda?'

"Normally they'll say no, because that's normally the truth," Sgt Bruhns said. "So you'll take his sofa cushions and dump them. You'll open up his closet and you'll throw all the clothes on the floor and basically leave his house looking like a hurricane just hit it." And at the end, if the soldiers don't find anything, they depart with a "Sorry to disturb you. Have a nice evening".

Sgt Dougherty described her squad leader shooting an Iraqi civilian in the back in 2003. "The mentality of my squad leader was like, 'Oh, we have to kill them over here so I don't have to kill them back in Colorado'," she said. "He just seemed to view every Iraqi as a potential terrorist."

'It would always happen. We always got the wrong house...'

"People would make jokes about it, even before we'd go into a raid, like, 'Oh fuck, we're gonna get the wrong house'. Cause it would always happen. We always got the wrong house."

Sergeant Jesus Bocanegra, 25, of Weslaco, Texas 4th Infantry Division. In Tikrit on year-long tour that began in March 2003

"I had to go tell this woman that her husband was actually dead. We gave her money, we gave her, like, 10 crates of water, we gave the kids, I remember, maybe it was soccer balls and toys. We just didn't really know what else to do."

Lieutenant Jonathan Morgenstein, 35, of Arlington, Virginia, Marine Corps civil affairs unit. In Ramadi from August 2004 to March 2005

"We were approaching this one house... and we're approaching, and they had a family dog. And it was barking ferociously, cause it's doing its job. And my squad leader, just out of nowhere, just shoots it... So I see this dog - I'm a huge animal lover... this dog has, like, these eyes on it and he's running around spraying blood all over the place. And like, you know, what the hell is going on? The family is sitting right there, with three little children and a mom and a dad, horrified. And I'm at a loss for words."

Specialist Philip Chrystal, 23, of Reno, 3rd Battalion, 116th Cavalry Brigade. In Kirkuk and Hawija on 11-month tour beginning November 2004

"I'll tell you the point where I really turned... [there was] this little, you know, pudgy little two-year-old child with the cute little pudgy legs and she has a bullet through her leg... An IED [improvised explosive device] went off, the gun-happy soldiers just started shooting anywhere and the baby got hit. And this baby looked at me... like asking me why. You know, 'Why do I have a bullet in my leg?'... I was just like, 'This is, this is it. This is ridiculous'."

Specialist Michael Harmon, 24, of Brooklyn, 167th Armour Regiment, 4th Infantry Division. In Al-Rashidiya on 13-month tour beginning in April 2003

"I open a bag and I'm trying to get bandages out and the guys in the guard tower are yelling at me, 'Get that fuck haji out of here,'... our doctor rolls up in an ambulance and from 30 to 40 meters away looks out and says, shakes his head and says, 'You know, he looks fine, he's gonna be all right,' and walks back... kind of like, 'Get your ass over here and drive me back up to the clinic'. So I'm standing there, and the whole time both this doctor and the guards are yelling at me, you know, to get rid of this guy."

Specialist Patrick Resta, 29, from Philadelphia, 252nd Armour, 1st Infantry Division. In Jalula for nine months beginning March 2004

'Every person opened fire on this kid, using the biggest weapons we could find...'

"Here's some guy, some 14-year-old kid with an AK47, decides he's going to start shooting at this convoy. It was the most obscene thing you've ever seen. Every person got out and opened fire on this kid. Using the biggest weapons we could find, we ripped him to shreds..."

Sergeant Patrick Campbell, 29, of Camarillo, California, 256th Infantry Brigade. In Abu Gharth for 11 months beginning November 2004

"Cover your own butt was the first rule of engagement. Someone could look at me the wrong way and I could claim my safety was in threat."

Lieutenant Brady Van Engelen, 26, of Washington DC, 1st Armoured Division. Eight-month tour of Baghdad beginning Sept 2003

"I guess while I was there, the general attitude was, 'A dead Iraqi is just another dead Iraqi... You know, so what?'... [Only when we got home] in... meeting other veterans, it seems like the guilt really takes place, takes root, then."

Specialist Jeff Englehart, 26, of Grand Junction, Colorado, 3rd Brigade, 1st Infantry. In Baquba for a year beginning February 2004

"[The photo] was very graphic... They open the body bags of these prisoners that were shot in the head and [one soldier has] got a spoon. He's reaching in to scoop out some of his brain, looking at the camera and smiling."

Specialist Aidan Delgado, 25, of Sarasota, Florida, 320th Military Police Company. Deployed to Talil air base for one year beginning April 2003

"The car was approaching what was in my opinion a very poorly marked checkpoint... and probably didn't even see the soldiers... The guys got spooked and decided it was a possible threat, so they shot up the car. And they [the bodies] literally sat in the car for the next three days while we drove by them.

Sergeant Dustin Flatt, 33, of Denver, 18th Infantry Brigade, 1st Infantry Division. One-year from February 2004

"The frustration that resulted from our inability to get back at those who were attacking us led to tactics that seemed designed simply to punish the local population..."

Sergeant Camilo Mejía, 31, from Miami, National Guardsman, 1-124 Infantry Battalion, 53rd Infantry Brigade. Six-month tour beginning April 2003


"I just remember thinking, 'I just brought terror to someone under the American flag'."

Sergeant Timothy John Westphal, 31, of Denver, 18th Infantry Brigade, 1st Infantry Division. In Tikrit on year-long tour beginning February 2004


"A lot of guys really supported that whole concept that if they don't speak English and they have darker skin, they're not as human as us, so we can do what we want."

Specialist Josh Middleton, 23, of New York City, 2nd Battalion, 82nd Airborne Division. Four-month tour in Baghdad and Mosul beginning December 2004

"I felt like there was this enormous reduction in my compassion for people. The only thing that wound up mattering is myself and the guys that I was with, and everybody else be damned."

Sergeant Ben Flanders, 28, National Guardsman from Concord, New Hampshire, 172nd Mountain Infantry. In Balad for 11 months beginning March 2004




--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq [Re: kotik]
    #7174383 -

Quote:
Every person opened fire on this kid, using the biggest weapons we could find...'

"Here's some guy, some 14-year-old kid with an AK47, decides he's going to start shooting at this convoy. It was the most obscene thing you've ever seen. Every person got out and opened fire on this kid. Using the biggest weapons we could find, we ripped him to shreds..."



I should hope so.


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Re: Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7175204 -

You SHOULD hope so?
take a look and feel inside yourself when you say that zappaisgod, it sounds like your just repeating someone elses words and forgetting about what may be your own.


--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....

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Re: Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #7175227 -

I would shoot a 14year old with an AK in a nanosecond. 14 is not too young to be a dangerous soldier. Entire armies in Africa are made up of teenage boys.

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Re: Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq [Re: kotik]
    #7175389 -

I want them to be as brutal as possible.

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Re: Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq [Re: Luddite]
    #7175740 -

Luddite said:
I want them to be as brutal as possible.



I'll let that quote stand on its on and sink in.

I don't know why the pro-war crowd continues to shock me. It's not like they aren't predictable. I just thought that maybe there was some shred of enlightenment within the minds of those who think this war is a good idea...but no. I guess it is just barberous hatred. An instinctual desire to butcher everyone the leader says you should. Oh well. I can only hope you get drafted when this war is in its 30th year.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7175776 -

Luddite is not a crowd.

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Re: Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7178617 -

gluke bastid said:
Oh well. I can only hope you get drafted when this war is in its 30th year.



I'll be 75. You'll be grown up. We'll see what happens.

Anybody who is armed and attacks a convoy is subject to termination with extreme prejudice. As he should be. By any means necessary.


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Re: Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7178762 -

i'm a huge bleeding heart liberal, but even i agree with zappa on this.

Anybody would do the same if in that position.

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Re: Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #7178841 -

:shocked:


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Re: Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7179916 -

ive gotta agree with these two as well, at least in that scenerio, 14 or not, he has a highly lethal weapon and was discharging it in our troops directions. now when we start talking about troops like the ones who murdered that whole family and were found guilty..... thats a different story.

now one that does disturb me a little -

Sgt John Bruhns, 29, of the 3rd Brigade, 1st Armoured Division, described a typical raid. "You want to catch them off guard," he explained. "You want to catch them in their sleep ... You grab the man of the house. You rip him out of bed in front of his wife. You put him up against the wall... Then you go into a room and you tear the room to shreds. You'll ask 'Do you have any weapons? Do you have any anti-US propaganda?'

i thought we were trying to create a democracy, not a dictatorship? since when are anti-US sentiments illegal?


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Edited by LeftyBurnz (07/15/07 04:45 PM)

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Re: Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #7182027 -

Why is it weird that they'd look for anti-US propaganda?

C'mon. Did you really think this mission was about freeing people? Its the civilians, (or if we're trying to dehumanize them and mislabel them, terrorists), that are already rebelling against us over there, and we don't need this movement to progress any more than it has, raiding homes for weapons and anti-US propaganda makes sense to their mission, just not to the mission the U.S. citizens agreed to go on in 2003... Liberation, and winning the hearts and minds of Iraqis.

Yeah its disgusting. And contradicting. But if it keeps our 18 year olds alive, I'm all for it.


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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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