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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: Autonomous]
    #1927213 - 09/17/03 11:31 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I heartily accept the motto, "That government is best which governs least"; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe--"That government is best which governs not at all"; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have.'
Henry David Thoreau (Civil Disobedience)





That's awesome.





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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: shakta]
    #1927219 - 09/17/03 11:32 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
I wonder if mankind will ever reach that point. I have my doubts.



As do I (certainly not in my lifetime). However, it is within human capabilities to reach this goal. It will require (r)evolutionary changes in our ways of thinking, including widespread acceptance of the concept of personal responsibility and the abandonment of laying blame on inanimate objects (such as guns, drugs or money) or systems (such as science or capitalism) for human decisions about how to use such things.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,168
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Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: Autonomous]
    #1927263 - 09/17/03 11:42 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

It will require (r)evolutionary changes in our ways of thinking, including widespread acceptance of the concept of personal responsibility and the abandonment of laying blame on inanimate objects (such as guns, drugs or money) or systems (such as science or capitalism) for human decisions about how to use such things.





Exactly. The only way this can happen though, is with psychedelic chemcials.




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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: Autonomous]
    #1927375 - 09/18/03 12:14 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Cheney's like the great OZ in a Tim Burton revision.

Condi Rice's backstep

From the  march 2003  press conference:
Saddam Hussein has a long history of reckless aggression and terrible crimes. He possesses weapons of terror. He provides funding and training and safe haven to terrorists -- terrorists who would willingly use weapons of mass destruction against America and other peace-loving countries. Saddam Hussein and his weapons are a direct threat to this country, to our people, and to all free people.

If the world fails to confront the threat posed by the Iraqi regime, refusing to use force, even as a last resort, free nations would assume immense and unacceptable risks. The attacks of September the 11th, 2001 showed what the enemies of America did with four airplanes. We will not wait to see what terrorists or terrorist states could do with weapons of mass destruction.


...Iraq is a part of the war on terror. Iraq is a country that has got terrorist ties. It's a country with wealth. It's a country that trains terrorists, a country that could arm terrorists. And our fellow Americans must understand in this new war against terror, that we not only must chase down al Qaeda terrorists, we must deal with weapons of mass destruction, as well.

...Colin Powell, in an eloquent address to the United Nations, described some of the information we were at liberty of talking about. He mentioned a man named Al Zarqawi, who was in charge of the poison network. He's a man who was wounded in Afghanistan, received aid in Baghdad, ordered the killing of a U.S. citizen, USAID employee, was harbored in Iraq. There is a poison plant in Northeast Iraq. To assume that Saddam Hussein knew none of this was going on is not to really understand the nature of the Iraqi society.

on and on and on and on...

Argue linguists all you want with me.. but how hard for him would it have been to insert one sentence.. "Although Saddam Hussain has no links to the 9/11 tradgedy" if he was going to repeatedly link him to al queda?

Autonomous... on edit, this wasnt directed at you, I just hit the quick reply :smile:




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Edited by PsiloKitten (09/18/03 12:18 AM)

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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
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Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1928444 - 09/18/03 08:49 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know about arguing 'linguists' with you, but how does any of that remotely say that Saddam was involved with 9/11? More disengenuous reporting designed to put words in the mouth of the administration.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: shakta]
    #1928583 - 09/18/03 09:48 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Oh come on shak.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: Xlea321]
    #1928592 - 09/18/03 09:54 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Why don't you go play hide and fuck yourself Alex. None of that claims a link between Saddam and 9/11.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: shakta]
    #1928626 - 09/18/03 10:11 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Why don't you go play hide and fuck yourself Alex. None of that claims a link between Saddam and 9/11.

Go and have a lie down shak, you're way too heated.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: Xlea321]
    #1928636 - 09/18/03 10:17 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

He makes no mention of Saddam being linked to al queda. He says Saddam could possibly arm terrorists and has supported and trained them in the past. The only link I can see he is implying is that Saddam Hussein and Al Queda are both considered enemies of America and the free world....


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.

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InvisibleLazerouth
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Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 1,091
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Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1928692 - 09/18/03 10:51 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

umm since when was there sposed to be a link between iraq an 9/11? its been blatently obvious to everyone including mr.bush the whole time an it was never even an issue.

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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Belgium
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: Lazerouth]
    #1928760 - 09/18/03 11:28 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


He makes no mention of Saddam being linked to al queda. He says Saddam could possibly arm terrorists and has supported and trained them in the past. The only link I can see he is implying is that Saddam Hussein and Al Queda are both considered enemies of America and the free world....




Anyone could possibly arm terrorists.
America also supported, trained and armed terrorists in the past (taliban, iraq anyone?) Oh, but thats ofcourse before they were terrorists, terrorism against russians or iranians is called bravery i guess.

They are not directly saying that there is link but they are implying it through a lot of "ifs and coulds" imho.
And the everyday american citizen will surely pick up those ifs and couldawoulda's and will see a link (like the poll prooves).


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"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary

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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
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Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: Dava]
    #1928790 - 09/18/03 11:40 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Anyone could possibly arm terrorists.




Yes but the majority of people aren't head of states....

Quote:

America also supported, trained and armed terrorists in the past (taliban, iraq anyone?) Oh, but thats ofcourse before they were terrorists, terrorism against russians or iranians is called bravery i guess.




LMAO, Alex is that you?


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.

Edited by st0nedphucker (09/18/03 11:47 AM)

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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: shakta]
    #1928835 - 09/18/03 11:59 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

well, lookie here, shakta learned a new word!

`disengenuous`

keep towing luvdem's line there, bruddah.

I think it's pretty clear that this administration has,
all along, spoken in such a manner as to indirectly
paint a pretty clear and frightening picture and
now that things are stagnating and support waning
they are using this same doublespeak to gingerly
tip toe backwards from their war drums.

how do these people sleep at night?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: Dava]
    #1928849 - 09/18/03 12:02 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Good point Dava. 70% of americans think Saddam had something to do with 9/11 so obviously the message is getting through somehow. Either the media is so far up Bush's ass it spreads supportive lies automatically or it's Bush and his buddies constantly linking Saddam and "terrorism"


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1928852 - 09/18/03 12:03 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

LMAO, Alex is that you?

Careful! You're getting giddy again..


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: Xlea321]
    #1929061 - 09/18/03 01:15 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Here are some quotes from Bush in case people are forgetting how he used misleading language to imply a connection:

"The war on terror, you can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror. And so it's a comparison that is -- I can't make because I can't distinguish between the two, because they're both equally as bad, and equally as evil, and equally as destructive."

"We've learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases."

"...we need to think about Saddam Hussein using al Qaeda to do his dirty work, to not leave fingerprints behind."

"If the world fails to confront the threat posed by the Iraqi regime, refusing to use force, even as a last resort, free nations would assume immense and unacceptable risks. The attacks of September the 11th, 2001, showed what the enemies of America did with four airplanes. We will not wait to see what terrorists or terrorist states could do with weapons of mass destruction."

"The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on. That terrible morning, 19 evil men -- the shock troops of a hateful ideology -- gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions."

"The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more. In these 19 months that changed the world, our actions have been focused and deliberate and proportionate to the offense. We have not forgotten the victims of September the 11th -- the last phone calls, the cold murder of children, the searches in the rubble. With those attacks, the terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States. And war is what they got."



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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.

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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: shakta]
    #1929193 - 09/18/03 01:46 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

shakta,
Wow.

You are amazing.

I dont even know what to say about you anymore. And my momma always said if I couldnt say anything nice then I shouldnt say anything at all.

Laz, see the post regarding how 70% of americans think there is a link.
It obviously came from somewhere.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1929240 - 09/18/03 01:56 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks, you can remain in wonderment for a while if you want. The fact still remains that no one has said that Saddam was responsible for 9-11.

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,168
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Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: Edame]
    #1929356 - 09/18/03 02:31 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Nice quotes Edame. It's clear that they tried to associate Saddam and Al Quaeda as much as possible.

Just make some mention of 9-11 and you can do anything you want to the people.





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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11 [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1929357 - 09/18/03 02:31 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

PsiloKitten asks:

Argue linguists all you want with me.. but how hard for him would it have been to insert one sentence.. "Although Saddam Hussain has no links to the 9/11 tradgedy" if he was going to repeatedly link him to al queda?

And how hard would it have been for some reporter to ask (some time in the last two years), "Do you believe Sadam Hussein had any part in the 9-11 tragedy?" Correct me if I am laboring under a false impression, but isn't that the kind of question reporters get paid to ask?

Let's put this in context. The article you provided says --

Quote:

At a Pentagon news conference, Rumsfeld was asked about a poll that indicated nearly 70 percent of respondents believed the Iraqi leader probably was personally involved.




It seems it wasn't even a question about Rumsfeld's own beliefs (although it is impossible to know that without a direct quote of the question which was asked), it was a question on what he felt about the beliefs of the people who responded to the poll in question.

I have been following this pretty closely for two years. At no point have I ever seen a report of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice, or any other cabinet member saying they thought Hussein was personally involved in 9 - 11. Their remarks have always been substantially more generic than that. Some of them may believe Hussein was personally involved in other terrorist attacks which took place outside the borders of Iraq, Iran, and Kuwait, but I must admit I can't think of an instance where any of them have said that, either.

pinky


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