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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: ]
    #706003 -

HE has no eyes open. He could have opend them if he wanted too. Maybe he is afraid to. I dont really care. He choose to wait for proof by someone who probably wont bother giving him proofs. He should experience. Not read or learn but know from facts of experience that can be gained if one is not too lazy. One like him should be the first to try, as he is so skeptic to everything.

What happens if you walk in mud? You might get stuck, or you might not.
But you dont know until you tried with an open mind. Dont walk too lightly, sink in, then dig out if getting to stuck.


--------------------
-Everything I write is fictional entertainment and should not be taken seriously-
-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: shaganoz]
    #706067 -

You write as if you don't know him at all. You assume too much for the information you have. What you read from people who post on the BBS at the Shroomery (or anywhere for that matter) is often but one facet of an individual. This facet may be a false persona which this person uses, or may be a very small part of the total individual which he/she feels safe to express fully over the internet whereas in other areas of life it may never come out.

If that is your picture in your avatar, I would say you're just a pup. You should realize that some of us may have a double your total lifetime in experience with ethnogens and philosophical exploration, experience is a great teacher.

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: ]
    #706154 -

Yes experience is. Age is of no importance.
I know people older and younger then me with more experience in various matters.
Being old doesnt equal being wise.

And there is these past lifes experiences that is to be recollected and gathered once again to regain the full counsiousness of oneselfs being. A lifetime of experience? No, lifetimes. For me age is not what matters. I dont claim him, or anyone else to be stupid or fools. Just narrow sighted in my opinion.
But again thats my opinion, from my experience, for all I know there is a different truth for us all


--------------------
-Everything I write is fictional entertainment and should not be taken seriously-
-To email me, remove NOSPAM from my email adress or else I won't get it-

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #706866 -

I respect every human's opinion and hear him or her out on everything. Now allow me to express myself.

I am not taking sides and I even agree that Shroomism wasn't inviting conflicting opinions. However, Swami, I respect your opinion and even agree with a point or to of yours but I am afraid I must voice my disagreement with a few things you said. I will tell you what lines I found to be inappropriate, IMO. You commented on Shroomism opening statements by criticizing him for "really bad form saying pro forma, that anyone who doesn't believe what you do is "rediculous". This type of opening does not invite discussion." Yet you turn around and shoot down his experiences in dreams; "Unusual dreams do not equal visitors from another galaxy, nor does hearing voices in one's head." Does that not do the same thing? You are stating something as fact, which is what you were criticizing him for.

Also when Shroomism said "I like to discover things on my own... figure truths out for myself." You replied by saying "By adopting every piece of fantasy from sci-fi to Von Daniken to ZetaTalk? How is that discovery?" With that you are assuming that his answers came from him reading books, totally assuming that you know that he has not thought of any of this on his own. I don't know where he got his ideas from, whether from reading sci-fi novels or from a life long search for meaning, but I am not so arrogant to assume that I do. (However, I can say I trust people who have never violated my trust. Although, I don't know Shroomism, I find no reason to be believe he is not telling the truth.)

Also when he said "The number one reason why all of Earth is not in conscious contact with these beings right now is because we have not been able to take full responsibility for our actions. " you replied by saying "Actually the Number One reason is that they are non-existent." Once again, you are saying that you know you are right, how is this not arrogance? Simply because you have not experienced something for yourself does not mean it does not exist, IMO. Have you never discovered something that you once thought to be something other than what it was?

No man knows everything, and I am no exception. Since we know that we do not know everything then how can we assume things to be false? IMO, people should keep their minds open to all experiences, you may not agree with them but that means nothing as to the validity of what they are saying.

Also, let me comment in a more general manor to naysayers with my opinion. I assume none of us here have ever left the Earth's atmosphere. Since we have never left Earth how can we assume to know much about what goes on in the entire universe? Shroomism's opinion is aliens exists, Swami's opinion is they don't. These are opinions. IMO people should not assume to know fact, this goes for everyone including me.

Once again this is all my opinion and feel free to express yours.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #707038 -

You commented on Shroomism opening statements by criticizing him for "really bad form saying pro forma, that anyone who doesn't believe what you do is "rediculous". This type of opening does not invite discussion."
So then, are you saying that this is a good opening line that encourages open debate?

"Unusual dreams do not equal visitors from another galaxy, nor does hearing voices in one's head." Does that not do the same thing?
This has been covered in great depth before. I have dreamt of aliens and of cartoons and monsters and making love to female celebrities. This is proof of NOTHING except for that fact that I was dreaming.

The Son of Sam heard voices telling him to kill people. Obviously (to me) the voices were not from a higher power and had no validity. Therefore we know that at least SOME voices in the head are signs of mental instability. (Before all you reading disorder people jump up and shout, this is not a comment on shroomism, but on the phenomenom of hearing voices!)

Also when Shroomism said "I like to discover things on my own... figure truths out for myself." You replied by saying "By adopting every piece of fantasy from sci-fi to Von Daniken to ZetaTalk? How is that discovery?" With that you are assuming that his answers came from him reading books, totally assuming that you know that he has not thought of any of this on his own.
Once again, no assumptions were made. He has parroted popular fantasy in posts for at least the last year, even going so far as to claim others words as his own. There IS a pattern here.

Do you REALLY believe that he formulated the 12th planet hypothesis through years of astronomical observation or from reading Zacharia Sitchin? Is this "original" or "borrowed"?

Also when he said "The number one reason why all of Earth is not in conscious contact with these beings right now is because we have not been able to take full responsibility for our actions. " you replied by saying "Actually the Number One reason is that they are non-existent." Once again, you are saying that you know you are right, how is this not arrogance?
Ah, you take offense at my arrogance for stating the likely scenario, but not his for stating the implausible. That is consistent!

Simply because you have not experienced something for yourself does not mean it does not exist, IMO.
No, but some 25 + years of investigating alien/UFO phenomenom has turned up nothing of substance. In the past I have given FULL credence to others stories only to find them to be hoaxes, misidentifications, & misperceptions.

There is a growing body of evidence that sleep paralysis is responsible for a large percentage (if not all) of "abduction" and "contact" experiences.

Have you never discovered something that you once thought to be something other than what it was?
Yes. Usually in the negative, like Santa Claus for instance.

No man knows everything,
Do you know every man and their knowledge base or is this an arrogant assumption on your part?

Shroomism's opinion is aliens exists, Swami's opinion is they don't.
My actual opinion is that they may or may not exist, we have yet to explore the stars and cannot say one way or another. However, there is no solid evidence that we are currently in any form of communication with them. Clear enough?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #707676 -

No, Swami, I even said I agreed that Shroomism didn't invite conflicting opinions in my orginal post and that I agreed with you on a few things.

The thing about dreams is still a matter of opinion I think. Some people think their is a terrible amount of evidence for Aliens but that the government is hiding it or that its just not conventional evidence. Whether their is "real" evidence or not of Aliens is a matter of opinion.

As to taking offense to your arrogance and not taking offense to his stating the implausable...once again, I said that I agreed that he to was stating his opinion as fact and that he did not invite discussion. I said that in my orginal post. Also, IMO humans have very little concept for what is plausable and what is not plausable because the universe is huge and we only have been on Earth.

No, I do not know that every man doesn't knows everything...like I said at the bottom of my letter...this is just my opinion and it is not fact, just my opinion.

About your Santa Clause comment...if you don't mind me saying so you seem to have been very betrayed by a lot of things you have trusted in the past and this has made you weary of anyone but yourself, because you seem to believe in only yourself and what you see and find. I hope I am not offending you but I am attempting to understand your opinions.

I am glad we are talking about this, friend, because much good will come of it.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #707699 -

Whether their is "real" evidence or not of Aliens is a matter of opinion.

It is NOT a matter of opinion. They either DO or DO NOT exist. Folks, this is not like preferring chococlate over strawberry ice cream.



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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: ]
    #709289 -

Shroomism, I dont believe, nor do i disbelieve in aliens. I simply know what i experiance and i have recently had an interesting "alien" experiance. While on a mushroom trip, i had an extremely vivid vision of a typical "grey" alien. This type of vision was very uncharecteristic of the visions that i usually get on hallucinogens because it was so real and detailed. The difference between this and the "usual" alien encounters that you read about was that i had an overwhelming feeling that the alien was really me with all of my human factors stripped away. It was as if this alien was my true self and the perfection of my being. I simply admired it in awe for a while and was eventually sucked back into reality. I will never forget seeing my reflection in its cold black eyes. I will not jump to conclusions about the experiance but it was very interesting nonetheless.


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:egyptian:

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Catalysis]
    #709417 -

In reply to:
Shroomism, I dont believe, nor do i disbelieve in aliens. I simply know what i experiance and i have recently had an interesting "alien" experiance. While on a mushroom trip, i had an extremely vivid vision of a typical "grey" alien

Yes! Confusing, isn't it? The possibilities narrow down for me as I think more and more about it...
I think these beings are either
a) extra-terrestrials,
b) ourselves, that exist in some kind of other dimension, or
c) terrestrials of another race that live on this planet somehow hidden from our sight, maybe in a form different than the physical...
I don't claim to know who or what they are for sure...
All I know is that they possess a definite "Other-like" intelligence that seems superior to our own.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

Edited by Adamist (06/28/02 08:28 PM)

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Adamist]
    #709941 -

Gee, only three possibilities? There are many more than that. But, of course, you leave out the most likely explanation: a mushroom induced hallucination based on popular culture.

How could an "open-minded" person overlook such an obvious choice on the possibilities menu?

Did Maria Sabina or Dr. Wasson speak of aliens? No. They were not a part of the local culture. Did Tim Leary and Ken Keysey report aliens? No. Still too early in the time line.

Not until several books and movies popularized the large-headed grey, did reports appear.

Self-deception is one of mankind's fatal flaws.



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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #709947 -

I've never read or seen books, detaling aliens like the ones I've seen, or the ones that I've felt their prescense, they manipulated matter, anyways,, I can't explain.
I still feel that way, but I always feel stronger that they are real,, imagination of the subconscious can only go so far in my opinion.

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #709949 -

Did Maria Sabina or Dr. Wasson speak of aliens? No. They were not a part of the local culture. Did Tim Leary and Ken Keysey report aliens? No. Still too early in the time line.

That's a good point, Swami.

-RebelSteve


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Namaste.

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #710012 -

Swami an interesting thing is, every last culture and people since the cave men have written about or drawn UFOs and Aliens...even cave men from Asia to England scrolled UFOs on cave walls...great thinkers such as Plato and Socrates claim to have communicated with beings who came from the sky.

Also, Time magazine once did a search to find the most universally recognized symbol or character...#2 was Michael Jordan but #1 was UFOs...

I am not saying they do exsist but the truth is stories about them started LONG, LONG, LOOOOONG before mass communication...hell, they started before communication itself.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: ]
    #710015 -

BTW, my actually belief is they do exsist. I myself have never had an experience with them to my knowledge but, IMO there seems to be a plethra of evidence to support the theory. Statistically there is more evidence to support the exsistance of UFOs and Aliens then there is of Jesus Christ.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #710292 -

In reply to:
Did Tim Leary and Ken Keysey report aliens? No. Still too early in the time line.

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Tim Leary wrote a book called The Starseed Transmissions, which was about channeling messages from an extra-terrestrial race of beings... I havn't read the book, so correct me if I'm wrong. I havn't read much of Wasson and none of Maria Sabina or Ken Keysey, so I can't speak for them


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #710299 -

In reply to:
But, of course, you leave out the most likely explanation: a mushroom induced hallucination based on popular culture.

If these beings are a figment of my mind (and I don't disregard the possibility) then reality itself must be a figment of my mind because they are as real and as intelligent as you and me.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Adamist]
    #710398 -

I just recently finished the book "DMT:The Spirit Molecule" by Dr. Rick Strassman. I'm sure some of you on the board have read it but if not it documents the doctor's 5 year research of DMT, a highly psychedelic and short lasting drug. In the chapters describing patients' experiences, many of them deal with alien contact and include the typical probing, communicating, testing, etc. that is often heard in alien abductions. A conclusion that Strassman comes to(and to me sounds pretty plausible) is that so-called alien abductions are in fact unnatural releases of DMT in the body(it's a drug humans produce). The stories told in the book range from being absolutely horrified, to having a feeling of oneness with the aliens, to pure love and many participants not wanting to leave them(ie, drugs wearing off). In one of the last chapters, Strassman takes all of the accounts at face value and goes off on a wild tangent on how the aliens might be real, describes dark matter, parallel universes and all that great stuff that makes up sci-fi novels. However, he admits himself that he's just letting his imagination run wild and keeps healthy skepticism throughout the studies and his conclusions. If there's been a thread about this book already and I missed it, I apologize for wasting your time.

Peace folks

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Adamist]
    #710492 -

Tim Leary wrote a book called The Starseed Transmissions

Actually, Starseed Transmissions is a book by Ken Carey.. a very excellent book.

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Danimal]
    #710957 -

A conclusion that Strassman comes to(and to me sounds pretty plausible) is that so-called alien abductions are in fact unnatural releases of DMT in the body...

Doesn't sound plausible in that there is insufficient "information" in a single (or group of) DMT molecule(s) to code for a 3D play to be acted out in your head.

No. Something else is going on.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: nugsarenice]
    #710964 -

...they manipulated matter...
There is no "matter" in your imagination.

...but I always feel stronger that they are real,, imagination of the subconscious can only go so far in my opinion.
How do you know how far a beshroomed imagination can go? Read one of the latest trip reports where the tripper totally believed that his father had been killed even though he was standing right in front of him alive and well.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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