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Physics and Unanswered Prayers
    #7052534 -

A prayer is essentially a thought, which is an electro-chemical signal. Electromagnetism travels as the speed of light, so if God is not nearby (perhaps he is vacationing on the Pleasure Planet 200,000 parsecs away) he may not receive your prayer for a billion years and when he does answer, you and perhaps your planet no longer exist.

If there is no central locus for God and he is truly everywhere, the same principle applies. Information speed is limited by the structure of the universe.


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7052544 -

But god, in any definition that counts, is a supernatural being...something not of "this" universe.

Hence applying the speed constraint of information, something that is a property of this universe, to god is probably not going to work :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: trendal]
    #7052696 -

I'm not sure if it is correct to say that a prayer is only a thought. It uses heart too. Maybe something or another as well. Seems a bit too mysterious to pin down so casually, possibly? A lot of times I have prayers answered. Only for somethings of course. Learning prayer is strange. I'm a rotten person too, I wouldn't expect God to listen to me. Maybe he does or not. Last I heard, God was neither here nor there.

What about those sub-atomic particles that always spin opposite to each other without time communication lapse no matter how far apart in the universe they become from each other? Supposedly it is supposed to imply faster than light speed information transfer. I don't really know anything about this area of physics... read about it last fall.. retaining the information properly is a different story, and the over all validity is yet another tale all together.

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: trendal]
    #7052720 -

trendal said:
But god, in any definition that counts, is a supernatural being...something not of "this" universe.

Hence applying the speed constraint of information, something that is a property of this universe, to god is probably not going to work :wink:


:thumbup:

Someone is not thinking things thru before posting.:D


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: trendal]
    #7052836 -

Quote:
But god, in any definition that counts, is a supernatural being...something not of "this" universe.



If he is outside of a closed system, then he cannot have any effect. If he can have effect then he is part of the system, verdad?


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: Icelander]
    #7052872 -

Quote:
Someone is not thinking things thru before posting.


Someone has a high fever today and is close to delerium. Someone is being karmically punished for thinking bad thoughts. :nono:


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7052921 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Someone is not thinking things thru before posting.


Someone has a high fever today and is close to delerium. Someone is being karmically punished for thinking bad thoughts. :nono:


Are you saying this because I spelled "through"wrong?


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: Icelander]
    #7052997 -

I am saying that I am incredibly sick :puke: today so be gentle with me.


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7053131 -

Straighten out your chakras and you'll be good as new. :yesnod:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7053629 -

It would behoove you to research a little bit what some of the theistic traditions mean by prayer. In Christian theologies for example, there are forms of prayer other than petitionary prayer. In the second place, the Divine Immanence is available at every point of space-time, not because God's Presence suffuses the universe, but because God transcends the universe. Communication with Deity has nothing to do with physical speed of electroneural impulses. The awareness that human beings are is derivative of God. The primitive formulation is that 'souls' come from God, but a more sophisticated notion is that human awareness, though mediated by the psychophysical [mind-body] or 'soul,' is an 'extension' of the "image and likeness" of God into space-time. We are 'individual waves' formed of an 'Ocean' which is God, but we are trapped, so-to-speak, into seeing only our individual beinghood and we fail to see that we are not separate from the 'Ocean' from which our temporary beinghood is made.

In this sense, and even parallel to Buddhist thought, we are being 'created' moment-to-moment. Our beinghood is an emergent phenomenon from the Ground of Being - God. Communication is instantaneous. God is said in the Qu'ran to be 'closer than one's jugular vein,' and Plotinus the Neoplatonist says that since everything that exists has come from The One, everything in some measure partakes of The One. The New Testament says “In him we live and move and have our being,
even as some of your poets have said.” (Acts 17:28). It is deeper than psychopsychical (soul or psyche) communication, it is pneumatic (spiritual) communication, spirit being archaic language for consciousness or awareness. Prayer derives from one's core or Center, mediated in the petitionary form through the mind-body (soul) when physical change is sought. It is not 'magickal' thinking but mystical thinking because the Oneness with God is the presumed ontological status of the one who prays. All petitionary prayers are obviously not granted. Saint Paul was said to have prayed three times for a certain "thorn" to be removed from his side, but whatever was causing his a problem was not removed. This is the archetype of all of our rejected petitions.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7055259 -

If an individual prays desperately to god that he be selected for a job, and if god answers his prayer, is not god depriving others of that job?

Such are our prayers, vain and selfish.


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Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: shakercee]
    #7057799 -

If god created us in his image and we are selfish, could god not also be selfish?

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: shakercee]
    #7057843 -

A selfish prayer produces a selfish result. That is, the increase of selfishness. Not beneficial.


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: FatBath]
    #7058500 -

FatBath said:
I'm not sure if it is correct to say that a prayer is only a thought. It uses heart too. Maybe something or another as well.


Liver?


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: Williamsii]
    #7058519 -

Williamsii said:
If god created us in his image and we are selfish, could god not also be selfish?


If so, then selfishness is next to Godliness. There are many who would agree with you.

However, I think it is more accurate to say that we create God in our own image... and we are selfish at times, and wrathful at times, and loving still at others. There is no perfection in God, only the perception of it.

If there were a God-like entity out there, that were truly sentient and truly involved in our daily lives, I would have to question its motives as I would any other unknown person who could have an impact on my life. Christianity says that God should be obeyed, loved and feared because God is powerful. Personally, I do not accept that as a valid line of reasoning, and it is most certainly not a noble one.


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7058577 -

We must fear god because we must fear people and we obey god for the same reason


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:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7058608 -

A very apt analysis. I think my anti-authoritarian tendencies led me to overlook that correlation.


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7061258 -

"If there were a God-like entity out there, that were truly sentient and truly involved in our daily lives, I would have to question its motives as I would any other unknown person who could have an impact on my life. Christianity says that God should be obeyed, loved and feared because God is powerful. Personally, I do not accept that as a valid line of reasoning, and it is most certainly not a noble one."

You are looking at God from the wrong perspective and as such you are met with the intellectual absurdity and the intuition that it can'e be - which is correct from the wrong point of view.

God is not a spatial reality and is not "out there." Neither can one say with accuracy that God is 'within.' The non-canonical Gospel of Thomas does say 'within' and 'without' (vs. "within" in Luke 17:20, but which in Greek [if I'm not mistaken] is ento, 'in the midst of' rather than 'eso' which would mean inner, within). Elaine Pagels has said:

"The Gospel of Thomas also suggests that Jesus is aware of, and criticizing the views of the Kingdom of God as a time or a place that appear in the other gospels. Here Jesus says, "If those who lead you say to you, 'look, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds will get there first. If they say 'it's in the ocean,' then the fish will get there first. But the Kingdom of God is within you and outside of you. Once you come to know yourselves, you will become known. And you will know that it is you who are the children of the living father."

In this gospel, and this is also the case in the Gospel of Luke, the Kingdom of God is not an event that's going to be catastrophically shattering the world as we know it and ushering in a new millennium. Here, as in Luke 17:20, the Kingdom of God is said to be an interior state; "It's within you," Luke says. And here it says, "It's inside you but it's also outside of you." It's like a state of consciousness. It's hard to describe. But the Kingdom of God here is something that you can enter when you attain gnosis, which means knowledge."

Pagel's "like a state of consciousness" might be better understood as a radically altered state of consciousness in which Transcendental Reality becomes Known (Gnosis) immediately and with certainty, but outside of sensory experience. It is, for lack of a better analogy, a shift in dimension.

Next, God may be personal (whereas the Godhead is Transpersonal), but God is not 'a person,' any more than God is 'a being.' God is the Ground of Being, the indivisible One whence all duality emerges into manifestation. The One is eternal and changeless and is THAT from which human beinghood emerges into individual existence (individual 'wave consciousness' rather than 'Oceanic Consciousness'). This connects up with your comment on "motives" which, from a strictly Christian theology is revealed in the personality of Y'shua/Jesus. God is about Compassion and wholeness (healing/health being a psychophysical aspect). The ultimate purpose of the universe has been theorized by different theologians. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin saw the entire universe being transubstantiated into Christ which he called "The Omega Point." God Knows .

The question about death is as moot as the question about birth - they are transitions into different states of existence, the rending away from the body of the mother in the first case and the rending away of consciousness from embodiment in the second are both painful. The further question is why is there suffering (and the Buddhist answer that we are attached is the cause of suffering doesn't help here, it is obvious). The willful infliction of pain on other beings is what evil is about, and like suffering, there is no satisfactory understanding why God has also brought evil into existence (except that it is a necessary correlate to goodness in the dualism of existence).

Christianity has many theological schools, but loving, fearing (in the sense of respecting, not being terrified) and obeying must be understood as obeying your 'Supernal Parents' who have not brought you into being for nothing, and whose Life you are constituted from. It would sound banal to say that 'God cares for us,' but our existence deriving moment-to-moment from the Ground Consciousness, would be revealed to our truly Realized Awareness as a supreme gift! Attempting to understand rationally configured questions with rationally constructed answers will NOT answer such questions. The answer to many rational questions can only be answered by transrational states of consciousness. This is why Scholastic Theology based on rational Aristotelian format fell flat. Only a mystical insight that illumines one's intellect, giving rise to gnosis can answer or nullify a non sequitur question.

Peace.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7061344 -

I get what you are saying as much as possible as a non-experiencer could.

But all I have ever seen is roadmap after roadmap leading nowhere; whether it be the psychedelic revolution, Eastern philosophy or Christian Church or other.

The path is littered with fraudelent teachers who were widely accepted and more deeply flawed than Joe Average.

My brother who is so deeply into the love of Jesus, compassion and non-judgmentalism that he refuses to communicate with our mother (a Catholic and not a Baptist :whoah:)

You, like much of the spiritual literature, repeated talk of this state of gnosis, but it keeps coming back to:

1. Had put much faith and 'effort' into following Yogananda for many years. I discovered nothing - not even a hint of shadow of a glimpse. His # disciple fell flat on his face after 50 years of meditation and service.

2. Billions of religious followers show no difference than non-followers.

3. People regulary deceive themselves.

4. Have never knowingly met even a partailly-realized human being.

5. You claim to have discovered this ground-of-being, but cannot give a roadmap. Of course, I have no way of knowing if you have or have not.

It all seems like an incredibly futile search with no key and no role model and no solid reason to even believe in the possibility of cosmic connection.


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7061982 -

"God is not a spatial reality and is not 'out there.'"

Spacial reality is irrelevant. God is described in all ways as an entity, whether it is "without" or "within", though it is said to be both. The justification for obedience to that entity, at least the only rational justification I've heard, is that the entity is all-powerful and all-knowing. Yet, that entity has given instruction to humans in a direct way, according to your mythology. As such, they have an obligation to question those instructions, lest they blindly give themselves and contribute to a cause which may be unjust. If one were approached directly by God, as your mythology says so many have been, one would not have any positive verification of the omniscience of that being--they would know only that it is a more significant being than they, for it has the power to contact them and direct them through means outside their comprehension.

Supernatural simply means "beyond known nature"--if something is both supernatural and true, then it becomes natural. I refer you again to "On Miracles" by Hume, which is a wonderful elaboration of this point.


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7061985 -

"God is not a spatial reality and is not 'out there.'"

Spacial reality is irrelevant. God is described in all ways as an entity, whether it is "without" or "within", though it is said to be both. The justification for obedience to that entity, at least the only rational justification I've heard, is that the entity is all-powerful and all-knowing. Yet, that entity has given instruction to humans in a direct way, according to your mythology. As such, they have an obligation to question those instructions, lest they blindly give themselves and contribute to a cause which may be unjust. If one were approached directly by God, as your mythology says so many have been, one would not have any positive verification of the omniscience of that being--they would know only that it is a more significant being than they, for it has the power to contact them and direct them through means outside their comprehension.

Supernatural simply means "beyond known nature"--if something is both supernatural and true, then it becomes natural, and it must be judged by the rules we apply to natural phenomena. I refer you again to "On Miracles" by Hume, which is a wonderful elaboration of the first half of this point.


In short, I will tell you that Abraham was a fool first and then a monster for being willing to choose a voice in his head over the life of his son. If you believe in damnation, you should take damnation, for it would not be a just punishment but a crime inflicted upon you by God. It is better to have a crime inflicted upon you than to inflict a crime on another in order to spare yourself.


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Edited by figgusfiddus (06/18/07 02:59 PM)

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7062082 -

That fear and submission that has been imprinted in our minds towards god is the equivalent to what people feel towards the legal systems and the forms of government. Funny how it all transmutes... :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7062150 -

As much as I know saying something like this has the potential to diminish me and my arguments, Frank Herbert had a rather good grasp on the relationship between religion and rule.


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7062335 -

I have learned philosophical, theological and psychological language games pretty much in order to explicate to myself first, and to anyone else who cares to listen, the more profound implications of the Entheogenic Excursion (formerly, The Psychedelic Experience). I learned how much my own thoughts and beliefs screened me from what is possible. I took to Heart page 19 in BE HERE NOW - "YOU TRUST THE FACT THAT THERE ARE REALIZED BEINGS. AND THEY SAID IT & THEREFORE YOU KNOW IT TO BE TRUE. IT'S NOT INFERENCE ANY MORE. IT'S NOT AN INTELLECTUAL PROCESS. YOU JUST ACCEPT WHAT THEY HAVE SAID. THAT'S FAITH."

Now my own predicament is that the figures illustrated on page 19 all say very different things about the nature of Ultimate Reality, and page 20 of that book convinced me NOT to cut my wrists when in the midst of my (archived here) most 'life-shaking' LSD trip when I was 19 years 360 days old. That page, illustrating a crucified Christ, left a deep impression while connecting up with the Christian Mystery first taught to me by my best friend when I was about 5 or 6 years old. Consciously, I sought through Tibetan Buddhism the rebirth experience that had occurred, and a year or so later, the most 'life-enhancing' experience occurred to me in a Buddhist framework (to this day I wear The Great Mantra of Vajrayana on a bracelet to commemorate that experience in 1974).

I have done, as Mohandas Ghandi called it, 'My Experiments With Truth.' I did not become a Buddhist (or a Hindu), yet in my humble life both the teachings of Buddha and the practice of Hindu Yoga have been of incalculable value. For Mohandas Ghandi, truly a Mahatma (Great Soul), he did not become a Christian, yet is was inspiration taken from the Jesus of the New Testament (not from Buddha) that inspired his non-violent resistence which help free India from colonialism, and set in motion a freedom from millennia-old caste prejudice.

I cannot put an experience of Ultimate Reality in your awareness unfortunately, and I would never claim an exalted title such as Self-Realized or Enlightened for myself, though I would admit that I am quite a bit more enlightened now than I was before I began the quest some 30+ years ago. I have few regrets in life, but the disciplines and self-restrictions that I took on even in my 20s are not among those regrets. Like Solomon who asked for Wisdom and was granted Wisdom plus much more, I have in my own small way made a similar request and I too have received far more in worldly things as well as in experiences than I ever expected or even hoped for. That prayer, even petitionary prayer, works, I can never prove, but I'll affirm its efficacy til my dying day. That seeking an identity as a Child of God has resulted in a balance of my faculties (the Jungian Thinking, Feeling, Intuiting and Sensing functions) and a sound degree of wholeness is again something that I cannot prove, but the 'becoming as a little child' means ever-transcending earlier degrees of wholeness as I move toward Oneness.

What can I say by example? I can write decently on these kinds of topics, and yesterday I completed a very nice looking 75' pressure-treated wooden fence that I built alone, raising each 8' section with my car's jack. Thinking and Sensing functions. Intuition and Feeling would be harder to describe, but you get the point hopefully. A spiritual life must translate into practical results, yet there are synchronicities, responses to prayer, mystical experiences and worldly treasures alike that would, if written down, read like a magickal fiction. That I am convinced is obvious. That I could convince you to experience YOURSELF as The Guru would be my prayer for you.

Peace.

- MtG


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7062426 -

To abandon one's questioning spirit is a kind of death of the mind. To be certain is to be complacent in your ignorance, and I can't really allow that of myself. Enlightenment is a continuous process, and never a state of being.

I am sad to tell you that to me, your words are those of someone who has partaken of some miscellaneous mixture of different flavors of Jonestown Kool-Aid. Some are more interesting than others, but the secret ingredient is always the same.

But, if it pleases you...


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Edited by figgusfiddus (06/18/07 05:16 PM)

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7062672 -

Fortunately for me, I know what I'm talking about - my experience. Unfortunately for you, your reading comprehension of my experience is lacking in the extreme.

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7062909 -

I have yet to try the orange flavor...


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7062994 -

Orange is Buddhism, right?



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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7062999 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
Fortunately for me, I know what I'm talking about - my experience. Unfortunately for you, your reading comprehension of my experience is lacking in the extreme.


"You've criticized my statements, and I don't know how to respond. This means you didn't understand me."

Correct me if my interpretation of your post is invalid.

I fail to see how you understanding your experiences makes your interpretation of them any less crazy (though I concede that it is the commonest kind of crazy).


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Edited by figgusfiddus (06/18/07 08:15 PM)

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7063028 -

Quote:
YOU TRUST THE FACT THAT THERE ARE REALIZED BEINGS. AND THEY SAID IT & THEREFORE YOU KNOW IT TO BE TRUE. IT'S NOT INFERENCE ANY MORE. IT'S NOT AN INTELLECTUAL PROCESS. YOU JUST ACCEPT WHAT THEY HAVE SAID. THAT'S FAITH.


I did and all I ever saw was very flawed beings pretending to have attained some elevated state in order to have power over others. Now, I no longer believe until such time that I meet a man or woman who manifests an inner light.


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7063444 -

But you are looking to the appearances of 'other' beings for validation. The game is to become that which one seeks. Looking outside of oneself merely increases the sense of separateness and that the answer or the solution is somehow 'external' to yourself.

When I was 12, I wanted to be Hugh Hefner but there already was a Hugh Hefner.
When I was 20, I wanted to be God after a number of high level LSD trips, but that was less realistic than wanting to be Hugh Hefner.
At last I realized that what I should seek to become was the genuine Mark, beneath the layers of programming and beneath my own mistaken social and self-identities. This path has proven to be fulfilling in the long run - living between the extremes of selfish instinctual gratification and an asexual life of renunciation like Hesse's Steppenwolf.

I visited different schools or Masters: 3HO Kundalini, Sri Chinmoy, Pir Vilayat, Swami Satchidanada, even the Divine Light Mission. I was in teacher-training for TM, about to be initiated by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. I dropped out of TM, got baptized and sought Christ within. I never searched for my Guru (though I was fascinated with Neem Karoli Baba and loved Autobiography of a Yogi).

There have been others at this forum who were seriously disillusioned by their adherence to other human beings and then felt stupid for their innocent and enthusiastic devotions. Never wanting to be a Guru to anyone but myself, I set out to become (to the best of my ability and with grace given me) the kind of being that I would want to encounter 'out there' in the world. I believe that this is the real path even now.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7066458 -

If god exists and is all knowing and has a a mystical plan that is beyond understanding , how can we as humans (limited by our spectrum of perceptions) have the arrogance to presume we understand god?

If prayer gives you comfort, let it be so.

It is only in luxury that we can philosophies about these concepts. We have time and are trying to find meaning in our existence. Surely this desire creates a biased way of obtaining the 'truth'. Therefore we cannot trust our perceptions of god as we see him/her through the eyes of humanity.

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: Williamsii]
    #7066725 -

Understanding is one of the spheres that belongs to the Supernal Triangle - to the Divine Itself - in Kabbalah. There, Understanding is called Binah. To me that means that Understanding is a Transcendental attribute in this context. It is not the same kind of understanding that one has when one finally gets how to do a math problem. It is not a cognitive analysis of the Divine Plan.

God is only 'perceived' via Intuition (using the Jungian functions in my response: Thinking, Feeling, Sensing, Intuiting). People with a strong Intuitive function are attracted to certain types of awareness. I have the same INTP typology as C.G. Jung did, and I too am drawn to the intuitive understanding of the mystics and gnostics. Even those with less pronounced Intuition can learn to strengthen that function if it is an 'inferior' function in one's constitution. It is the function that allows one to "see around corners" so-to-speak. I have come to trust it (like so many blind martial arts masters in film) in order to make life decisions. It is the function through which methods of divination seem to 'work,' and it is through Intuition that one gets a sense of certitude about petitionary prayer, or not.

So here, I am advocating for the mechanism through which humans may interface with Transcendental 'directives.' It is not a Thinking function that is operative. That truly would be arrogant to the point of delusional paranoia - discerning by Thinking the 'thoughts of God' indeed!


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7066941 -

Jibberish is jibberish, even when it's 4000-year old jibberish.


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7067272 -

Quote:
I set out to become (to the best of my ability and with grace given me) the kind of being that I would want to encounter 'out there' in the world. I believe that this is the real path even now.



Sounds like a good personal guideline. :thumbup: (no mocking here)

However, I must ask, does a timber wolf (or substitute animal of your choice) try to become other than what it already is? Must it become the uber-wolf or is it enough that it mate, kill sheep and chop wood?

Is not any form of self forcing or molding a type of neurosis? To want to be 'there' when you are 'here'?


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7067750 -

It's probably the most common, most pointless, and most misleading neurosis ever created. It's the "meaning of life" mentality.


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7067921 -

figgusfiddus said:
Jibberish is jibberish, even when it's 4000-year old jibberish.


The Arabic author Jabir ibn Hayyan, whose Latinized name became Geber (born 721 CE) was the Middle Eastern alchemist who most influenced Western alchemy. He is perhaps best known for his symbolism of Sulfur, Mercury and Salt, representing the tripartite human constituency of spirit, soul and body.

Moderator edit: Removed inappropriate comments in violation of the forum rules.

Edited by fireworks_god (06/21/07 06:41 PM)

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7068021 -

The first response that comes to mind is couched in Kabbalistic terms, but not anyone's terms. What comes to mind is this little bool for $4.98 from B&N by Will Parfitt. Now, Kabbalism may not be your current interest, and I've read a lot of books on the subject not to mention used the glyph of the Tree of Life, but your question is simple and strightforward, and it can be answered by the idea of working the paths on the Tree, particularly a radical shift from where most people are identified (the "wolf" here) to the "uberwolf" (there).

We are, until this shift occurs, 'stuck' in what is called "The Astral Triangle. What you are asking is how to identify oneself with "The Ethical Triangle." I hate to use jargon that may not be familiar but...Aleister Crowley, borrowing language from Eliphas Levi called this shift the "Knowledge and Conversation of One's Holy Guardian Angel." Awkward and out of place I know, but it is the shift from the first three chakras to the fourth chakra, from the Earth (centers) to the Sun as it were. Instead of being Earthly and looking 'at' the Sun, we Realize that we are the Sun, and we henceforth see our former identity as a bundle of personality dynamics external to our true Self which we nurture and abide with (and, in which our neuroses are located) from a New Center of Pure Witnessing Awareness. I am still "here" but I have also been "there" for a long time, and I Know which remains and which perishes, so I chose sides long ago.



Now, I am not so out of this world that I do not live in my body, but I do understand the alchemical separations of my being, and at certain special times, I practice experiencing my Witnessing Spirit. As Paul allegedly wrote:

"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us." - 2 Corinthians 4:7


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7076807 -

figgusfiddus said:
Jibberish is jibberish, even when it's 4000-year old jibberish.


It couldn't be any more jibberish than your assertion that it is jibberish. Why should anyone consider your conclusion without any substantiation? :what:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7077450 -

Substantiation of the notion that alchemy is nonsense? Okay, I'll leave that one up to the readers--I think it's self-evident, I think most people realize that it is self-evident, and as such I don't see any purpose in elucidating. Generally speaking, it is the least accepted conclusion--in this case the reality of alchemy, numerology--that requires a defense.

For anyone who doesn't know what "alchemy" means (which to me, aside from subscribing to the Church of the Loon, is the only reason one might not immediately realize its insanity): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy - A basic but essentially accurate history lesson.


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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7077726 -

As a matter of clarification, alchemy is a metaphor for personal tranformation, not the 'vulger alchemy' of the 'puffers' who sought physical transformation of base metals into silver and gold (without a modern particle accelerator). It is the Jungian psychological use of alchemy that I conduct both the processes of my own birth, death and regeneration as well as a metaphor for doing psychotherapy.

In 1974 I was introduced to the work of C.G. Jung by professor Bob Brier (the Egyptologist and parapsychologist who co-published with J.B. Rhine at Duke). I underwent some 8 years of Jungian analysis uner 3 Zurich trained Jungian analysts. My 2nd analyst's training analyst was Jolanda Jacobi - she was analyzed by Freud, Adler and Jung.

BTW, Ignorance does not equate with stupidity. Ignorance fails to know about something while yet evaluating it. This attitude is irrational and opinionated and not possible to communicate with using Thinking as it comes from Feeling and Judgement.

Just FYI.

Peace.

- MtG


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Physics and Unanswered Prayers [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7123394 -

We can tell that God is fake, because when you pray in a controlled experiment. God does not respond to your prayers. Anyone of the christian faith believes in the power of prayer. Yet they focus on the hits, and not the misses. Where there are far more misses.......

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