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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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My thoughts and prayers are with you...
    #2572017 - 04/17/04 09:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

We often hear this said (or say it ourselves) after someone suffers a personal tragedy. Is this merely a social nicety and expression of concern or is there some deeper mystical power being applied? I personally have never witnessed grief being reduced because of someone far away mumbling some words to themselves, but perhaps you have...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Swami]
    #2572025 - 04/17/04 09:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, I have. I 'felt' the prayers of a large group of people praying over me. Is this to say that it was real, along with any of my other spiritual experiences?, well I think you know the answer....Although I have to say, self experimentation is becoming valid proof for me lately in the areas out of sciences grasp.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Swami]
    #2572239 - 04/17/04 10:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

In the event a personal tradegy, those that are involved are in an emotionally vulnerable state. They need support...

People whose lives witness anothers personal tradegy are filled with empathy and other negative emotions. Instead of repressing these feelings, they try to convey their emotions. Sometimes its hard to say things like that, so they use formalities like the one you mentioned.

A lot of people aren't cold hearted and neurotic and do things like that. Perhaps you know of better methods that you would be willing to share?


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2572365 - 04/17/04 11:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

There IS a difference between kindness and superstition.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

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Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Swami]
    #2572417 - 04/18/04 12:10 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, but someone who has distanced themselves far enough from the human experience to mock empathy in such a manner may have issues :nonono:


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Swami]
    #2572548 - 04/18/04 01:11 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Swami,

praying for others simply seems to be an appropriate manifestation of beliefs that supernatural powers do exist. Many humans share these beliefs.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2572663 - 04/18/04 01:58 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Have you ever sneezed and had someone say "God bless you!"? (But not for a cough - God apparently is not powerful enough to handle coughs). Did it cure your allergy, irritation, flu, cold etc?

This is ancient superstition has been passed down from when it was believed that demons rather than pathogens caused disease. Did not work then; does not work now. This type of "thinking" has little place in an enlightened mind.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2572669 - 04/18/04 02:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Now you are not only reading something that was not written (not a sign of being present-minded), but are conflating empathy with superstition.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Swami]
    #2572683 - 04/18/04 02:07 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Have you ever sneezed and had someone say "God bless you!"? (But not for a cough - God apparently is not powerful enough to handle coughs). Did it cure your allergy, irritation, flu, cold etc?

This is ancient superstition has been passed down from when it was believed that demons rather than pathogens caused disease. Did not work then; does not work now. This type of "thinking" has little place in an enlightened mind.




The reason people say "God bless you" after a sneeze was a ritual or tradition or whatever because it was found that the heart stopped momentarily when one sneezes. It was called a "little death". Saying "God bless you" was thought to be a good thing since someone experienced a little death. A cough doesn't cause a little death.

That formality has stayed in place as a politeness. It never hurts to be blessed, even if over a sneeze.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

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Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Swami]
    #2572687 - 04/18/04 02:09 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Did not work then; does not work now.




I was not arguing that it does work. I was offering an explanation. However, I would argue that whether or not prayer works via supernatural forces is outside the limits of scientific inquiry. Therefore, I cannot know whether it works or not. I doubt that you could demonstrate to me that prayer does not work.

Quote:

This type of "thinking" has little place in an enlightened mind.




Why do you think that believing in supernatural forces is bad or "unenlightened?"


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OfflineFrog
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Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Swami]
    #2572732 - 04/18/04 02:30 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

If someone is meant to die, all the prayer in the world won't stop the death. People don't pray the right way. In this article, the author debunks several studies on prayer, showing that there is no significant difference in the groups where one group is prayed for and the other is not, where both groups are experiencing the same illness, such as cancer or heart disease.

Maybe it makes us feel better to know we're being prayed for, or maybe we feel better when faced with a situation someone else is experiencing and we feel helpless because we can't help them, and of course prayer never hurts anyone, but when we pray, we're not supposed to pray that God cures someone or prevents the death or what-have-you.

We're supposed to ask that God's will be done, but in the meantime, pray that the person who is sick has learned whatever they are supposed to learn in this life, and from their situation. It's like when Jesus said "take this cup from me, but let your will be done". Well, God's will was that Jesus should die on the cross, and all the prayer in the world wasn't going to stop that from happening.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

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Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Frog]
    #2572745 - 04/18/04 02:38 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The flaw of that study is that there's no way the person doing the study could know that one group had not been prayed for. Perhaps one prayer by one person a thousand years ago for all people, for all time has rendered further prayer ineffective. That is just a simple example of hypothesis testing problems when it comes to prayer and there are many other I can think of (the main one being the problem of locating and demonstrating the mechanism by which prayer works). IMO, prayer is outside scientific inquiry and we probably cannot say whether or not it is effective. We also cannot say whether or not it is harmful.


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Anonymous

Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Swami]
    #2573044 - 04/18/04 04:52 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Have you ever sneezed and had someone say "God bless you!"? (But not for a cough - God apparently is not powerful enough to handle coughs). Did it cure your allergy, irritation, flu, cold etc?




:lol: :lol: :lol:  dude you are so fucking funny, man id love to meet you someday. you know what swami?  you are an awesome soul!

my piece on prayer:  we have the power to heal ourselves and others, prayer is power dude, i can only PRAY that you see this one day.  I am certain people have prayed for you and it has affected you in a very positive and healing way, but you just didnt realize it, same with all of us, youd never know if someone prayed for you or not, unless they told you, i personally dont say nothing, i just pray, telling them isnt what helps them, its DOING it.

also, off topic a lil, but i will say this, we can go out of body and heal others.  i have healed myself by having them too, i had the most horrible fucking phlegm in my lungs, the weezing was ridiculous, i laid down for an obe, all i had was vibrations, when they were done, no more weezing, it went from 70% to 20% i was just like holy shit :shocked:  thats proof enough for ME.  like 2Experimental says if you listen to him, (he basically is shouting this off the roof tops)all that matters is proving it to yourself.

We have jack shit to prove to anyone else, you want it, you better get it yourself, i mean what else is going to suffice for you?

prayer works when it is done sincerely from the heart.  if you dont believe then where is the healing going to be coming from?  you need to have heart, that is where the power of prayer lies.


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

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Posts: 2,915
Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: ]
    #2573090 - 04/18/04 05:08 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

like 2Experimental says if you listen to him, (he basically is shouting this off the roof tops)all that matters is proving it to yourself.




Inefficient. If I was to attempt to prove things to myself and not rely on data reported by others, then I would be stuck in the dark ages.

IMO, you're sort of a rambling lunatic.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Swami]
    #2573158 - 04/18/04 05:48 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think it would be fairly hard to see this in action. Havent you ever "prayed" for someone you know who was in pain/sorrow? How do you know that in some small way you did not help them?

Im not saying I believe that this kind of aid through prayer is a given, but thanks to non-locality I am able to perceive a slight chance that there is some mechanism through which this sort of thing could,maybe,who knows function. Id rate it at around 60% probability with 20% of that probabaly my own desire for it to be true!


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Anonymous

Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2573165 - 04/18/04 05:57 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

well sure, you can compare your experiences with others, but if u dont find shit out for yourself, how u gonna KNOW things? why the hell should you take someone elses word for it?

Quote:

IMO, you're sort of a rambling lunatic.



see this is the shit that makes me want to say fuck saying anything, people like this asshole. but i tell you one thing, what you see in me also resides within yourself.


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Anonymous

Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: Frog]
    #2573233 - 04/18/04 07:26 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: ]
    #2573245 - 04/18/04 07:40 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

What points were made that were not understood?


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Always Smi2le


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Anonymous

Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: GazzBut]
    #2573246 - 04/18/04 07:41 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My thoughts and prayers are with you... [Re: ]
    #2573304 - 04/18/04 09:03 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Whoa, deja vu.... I think this thread comes up as often as the free will threads. :lol:

Quote:

Frog said:
That formality has stayed in place as a politeness.  It never hurts to be blessed, even if over a sneeze.




Hehe, I had a teacher who, if someone sneezed, he would look at the person sitting next to that person and tell them "God bless you", instead of the one sneezing. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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