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OfflineFelstorm
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Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 105
Loc: North, Cold North, Very C...
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #456170 - 11/12/01 04:00 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Magick is different than Psionics. They are related but they can have major differences.

Magic works with Divine "energy". This energy is produced by "Divinity"...And can be channeled by anyone who knows how to access it. Most of it is learning and reading, and practicing.

Psionics uses the power of your own bioelectrical field to manipulate the world around you.
Take a saucer, fill it with water. Place a cup in the center.
now take a small peice of tin foil and float it upon the water.
Place your hands on either side of the cup and saucer. Relax.
Watch the tin foil. It will start to move. If you think its heat or air disturbance wear a pair of gloves and sit in a room with still air.
It will still move. If you place glass between you and the saucer it will not work, remember glass is insulating and you are working with bio-electricity. Try it.


--------------------



To do a thing and know no better is ignorance.
It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant.
To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.





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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
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Registered: 07/15/01
Posts: 200
Last seen: 21 years, 10 months
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
    #457110 - 11/13/01 03:24 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

Magick is different than Psionics. They are related but they can have major differences.

Magic works with Divine "energy". This energy is produced by "Divinity"...And can be channeled by anyone who knows how to access it. Most of it is learning and reading, and practicing




Yes, a merging of psi and magick. A practitioner 'accessing' the Divine with mere thoughts. This is what I have been told.

In reply to:

Psionics uses the power of your own bioelectrical field to manipulate the world around you.
Take a saucer, fill it with water. Place a cup in the center.
now take a small peice of tin foil and float it upon the water.
Place your hands on either side of the cup and saucer. Relax.
Watch the tin foil. It will start to move. If you think its heat or air disturbance wear a pair of gloves and sit in a room with still air.
It will still move. If you place glass between you and the saucer it will not work, remember glass is insulating and you are working with bio-electricity. Try it.




I have no doubts we are psionically charged beings. I know my fingers are bioenergetically active. I did a demonstration with one of my friend's ex-gf (intuitive type) by placing one my finger near her third eye chakra. She felt an electrical (like tingily vibrations) coursing around her brow and down the side of the her face. She also felt a point at the back of her head parallel to where my finger was pointing.

My friend (skeptical type) tried it and got nothing.


KtP


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OfflineFelstorm
member
Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 105
Loc: North, Cold North, Very C...
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #457154 - 11/13/01 04:21 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

People can train themselves to become "sensitive". Some are born that way. The people that have innate genetic ability to use access magickal energy are usually going to travel down the path of advanced understanding. Certain ethnic groups can be pre-disposed to "The Gift". People of the British Isles commonly display these traits. Most of these people can trace thier genetic lineage back to the Picts. Where this ability stems from. One noted british man is Aleistier Crowley, one of the key founders of Modern Western Magic. Egyptians, Semitic people, and Aboriginal people have strong psychic genetic lineages.

People that have used and do use hallucinogens can "Awaken" abilities such as precognition, psychokinesis and other talents if you know how to mentally manipulate the chemicals to open those neural pathways. Although those with natural talent will tend to be a lot better at manipulating mystickal energy.

If you are a brave person, and have lost your ego. Study the Major Arcana of the Tarot while tripping. It is simply amazing. That is all the more I can say about it.


--------------------



To do a thing and know no better is ignorance.
It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant.
To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.





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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
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Registered: 07/15/01
Posts: 200
Last seen: 21 years, 10 months
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
    #458911 - 11/15/01 01:32 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

People can train themselves to become "sensitive". Some are born that way. The people that have innate genetic ability to use access magickal energy are usually going to travel down the path of advanced understanding. Certain ethnic groups can be pre-disposed to "The Gift". People of the British Isles commonly display these traits. Most of these people can trace thier genetic lineage back to the Picts. Where this ability stems from. One noted british man is Aleistier Crowley, one of the key founders of Modern Western Magic. Egyptians, Semitic people, and Aboriginal people have strong psychic genetic lineages.




Yes, like saying we are born with a certain amount of jing..

As for Crowley, there was this one hermetic master (who runs a fraternity in Portugal) who said Aleistier was bad news..

In reply to:

People that have used and do use hallucinogens can "Awaken" abilities such as precognition, psychokinesis and other talents if you know how to mentally manipulate the chemicals to open those neural pathways. Although those with natural talent will tend to be a lot better at manipulating mystickal energy.




Interesting.. I've meant someone who had his abilities turned on permanently from taking LSD.. But he's not really into mysticism or spirituality..

In reply to:

If you are a brave person, and have lost your ego. Study the Major Arcana of the Tarot while tripping. It is simply amazing. That is all the more I can say about it.




Ahh ahah.. You are referring to tarot cards?? ... I am brave but I will not at the moment due to potential (previous) karma.. That's all I'm willing to say in here.. :o)

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OfflineFelstorm
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Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 105
Loc: North, Cold North, Very C...
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #459890 - 11/15/01 10:09 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Alestier Crowley was a magickal genius up until the time he took a trip to the deserts of Africa for the purpose of summoning" etherial creatures using Enochian Magick. Mister Crowley decided it would be a good idea to channel a "demon" call Choronzon into his body. It permanently changed him. He attacked his partner several times during the course of the "possession". The demon was never fully banished, and Mr.Crowley was labeled "the Most Wicked Man" by the British for his radical view of magick afterwards. If you want to know more look him up.

As to my reference tot he Tarot. Here is a simple "Exercise" that you might find interesting Templar. Obtain a Rider/Waite, Crowlian Thoth deck , or Golden Dawn Tarot deck. I donot recommend using a "Witches Tarot" for this exercise as I donot know the symbolisms for those cards and the profound psychological and psychoactive after-affects of using them with this exercise.

#1. Find a room and clean it...Light some insense and light the room with candles if at all possible.

#2. Stand in the center of the room and face east. Imagine a gold glowing fog enveloping your feet and rising to cover your entire body. Relax, spend a few minits like this to release any tension you may have accumulated in your systems. Anywhere you feel tension, "send" a small amount of that gold glow to that location until it relaxes.

#3. Imagine now that there is a intense white light about 6 inches above your head. Visualise it, see it in your mind. Bring a peice of this intense light down to your throat, feel it develop into a shere of the same intense white light. Again take another piece and "bring" it down to your sternum area. Feel it create another ball of white light. You may even feel a warm sensation as you do this. And after that take yet another ball and bring it down to your Dan Tian, and area six inches below your navel. Feel the light manifest itself into a ball there. And lastly take yet one more peice of light and sink it six inches below the ground, form it into a sphere that covers your feet and extends into the ground several inches. You should now have a string of White Orbs of divine energy centering themselves on your major chakras. Imagine them fading into your body but not disappearing completely.

#4. Now take the Tarot deck and remove the 22 major arcana from it. Shuffle it. Take the first card that is on the top, or if any "pop" out of the deck pay special attention to these cards. Take the card, and "scan" it. By this I mean start at the upper right hand corner of the card and "scan" it into your memory a half inch at a time. Close your eyes and "print" the image back you yourself. Listen to your inner voice. What does it say? What do you feel? Write it all down, including the name and number of the card. After this "erase" the mental picture of the card a half inch at a time. You are done with that card. Take another card and do the same. Repeat until you have gone through the all 22 major arcana.

#5. When you are done. Write down all you have experienced. Record your name, Date, phase of the moon, any recent celestial Phenomenon. You are done.

Now after you have practiced this several times sober. Try it on a dose of mushrooms. Try not to excede a level 2 or 3 trip. You want to be able to maintain your concentration for the exercise.
If you feel an etherial being try and contact you, firmly and authoritavly tell it to leave and harm nothing and no-one along the way. It will go and not return until you either ask it to, or summon it back. This is magick.

Remember...Don't listen to me, find out for yourself. And most importantly...Question authority!


--------------------



To do a thing and know no better is ignorance.
It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant.
To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.





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Offlinevalkyrie
journeyman

Registered: 10/29/01
Posts: 98
Loc: Midwesternly
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
    #460108 - 11/16/01 02:18 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

in reply to a previous post stating that magick is only black and white....

magick may be a polarized into various manipulations of positive and negative energies, but what is positive is not always good, and what is negative is not always bad. Personally I prefer a balance between the darkness and the light to an excess of either. Many eastern philosophies also teach one to seek out this balance, and energy is understood through principals of yin and yang which highlight the non-morality of magickal force. nature is not moral or a-moral, not horrible, nor loving and welcoming. it simply is, and exists to further itself. I'm an asatru, norse pagan... any others out there? anyone studying runes? ( the elder futhark preferably, none of this witches runes and ralph blum crap ;) )
Anyway, maybe my religious and philosophical bent makes me less appreciative of massive quantities of peace love and light, but even they can grow stagnant. thats what Loki is for ;)

wassail--

Megan

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Offlinegribochek
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Registered: 04/18/99
Posts: 286
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
    #461225 - 11/16/01 06:10 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Ah, when logic fails

The problem of both skeptics and believers alike is falling into the trap people call "logic". Is there any point in me saying that logic is not the only tool of knowledge? Take the following exmaples.

1. Prove to me logically that the tree is green. What if I am blind or color-blind, can logic help?

2. Suppose the following scientifical method can be applied to finding an answer to a question "where do TV images come from?" : one takes a magnifying glass and starts examining the screen, then comes up with an answer "No such person as a TV News Anchor exists. The TV image is made up of the small colored dots, and the imagery seen by observers is a psychological phenomenon".

Swami, your skepticism is understandable, granding the limitations you impose on observations. Your skepticism is also understandable granding the number of crasy psychos out there. Your skepticism is also its own source. No proof can ever be given of existance of paranormal because it is either expained away as physical or, more often, discounted just like green is by the color-blind.

Why do I keep bothering with this?

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: gnrm23]
    #460205 - 11/16/01 07:01 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

and once again we come to the interface of "not my will but thy will be done"

Sounds good in theory, but most people get a thought or "voice in the head" and call it the will of God or Allah or...

Can be very dangerous to believe one is in direct communication with the Deity as then "normal" societal rules no longer apply.

So how does one distinguish the "Will of God"?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
    #460208 - 11/16/01 07:08 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

People that have used and do use hallucinogens can "Awaken" abilities such as precognition, psychokinesis and other talents if you know how to mentally manipulate the chemicals to open those neural pathways.

Sorry. To date no one has publicly demonstrated (unless you count the fraud - Uri Geller) any special powers as described. No one foresaw the WTC Attack. And no one has yet claimed Randi's $10,000,000 prize for a display of paranormal abilities.

Nice fantasy though...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineTraveller
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Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 309
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
    #460392 - 11/16/01 11:05 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

ok Swami skepticism is necessary i agree but do you really think the fact that no one has publicly demonstrated something means that it can't be done? it's like people who think the best martial artists are either bruce lee or those who win no-holds-barred fighting tournaments...and say "well if these old tai chi guys are so good why don't they enter the competition to prove it?"

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Traveller]
    #460590 - 11/16/01 03:24 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

but do you really think the fact that no one has publicly demonstrated something means that it can't be done?

No, it doesn't make them impossible, but the fact that these things have NOT been publicly demonstrated does not foster belief in them.

I have seen amazing public displays of power and concentration. A perfect example would be the Olympics. These adepts do not find it unspiritual to display their advanced training and physical prowess.

Many people have made paranormal claims, then when they failed under strict testing, said it was the fault of the non-belief of the witnesses. Well, athletes can perform their magick irrespective of the belief of the audience.

One guy wanted to prove to me that black magick was real, so I invited him to put a curse on me. So I suppose when something bad happens to me several years from now, he will think himself successful.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineFelstorm
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Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 105
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Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
    #460719 - 11/16/01 06:00 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Well another skeptic has to chime in with the "I won't belive it until I see it" line.

There are people that knew about WTC before it happened. But you know the reaction psychics get when they try and tell people that something bad is going to happen. They get reactions from jerks like Swami. They say, "Scientifically prove that this is going to happen! Prove to us by using puny human measuring devices that you can move things with your will.". You cannot apply simple physical laws to the etherial and ephemeral. These things defy time itself. These people have finally decided to let this kind of thing rear it's ugly head due to peoples skepticism and ignorance.

If you want proof of Precognition. Learn the Tarot. Do readings for people. Tarot readers ARE recognised as being able to divine VERY personal aspects of the inquirers past present and future. People that try and demonstrate thier talents publicly for money or fame or otherwise will ultimately meet with defeat and humiliation.

The powers that be do not want humans using paranormal abilities openly. Think of the consequenses. They would be used and abused and turned into weapons of war. The US government has already used remote viewers to spy for them.
They admit this even. So if its all a load of hokum, why would they spend billions on research and covert utilisation of this ability? Remote viewing, otherwise known as Astral Travel, or an out of body experience is pobably the most easily learned. Yes learned, anyone can do it. But certain people don't want you to. They do not want you to have the power of knowing what "they" do behind your back. The monitors do not like to be monitored.

Another proof of "paranormal ability". Chinese Kung Fu masters can start paper on fire with nothing but an open hand.
This is done by using human bio-electrics. They have built up massive amounts of this energy call "chi" and can willfully focus and direct this energy. All this is done through simple daily exercise and rigorous mental training.
Those who fear something the most are the first to say "It doesn't exist, because (horrors) that means I could be wrong!".Grow up and develop open but critical mind... you will need it to survive.

Question Authority!


--------------------



To do a thing and know no better is ignorance.
It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant.
To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.





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OfflineTraveller
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Registered: 04/13/01
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
    #460879 - 11/16/01 08:44 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Felstorm be very careful about believing stories or demonstrations of chinese chikung "masters", I think in this case unless you have witnessed firsthand upclose with someone you know and trust it would be best to assume that it is fake. there has been a lot of publicity in china in recent years (probably since ancient times actually) given to these "chi masters" but these people are constantly being proven as charlatans...every genuinely skillful chinese kung fu teacher i have met thinks that these famous "masters" who like to demonstrate their "powers" in public and gather large followings are completely full of shit.

still - and i don't think we need to talk about "chi" in this context since people will always say it doesn't exist (whether it exists or not is really quite irrelevant) - I myself have felt my teachers hands icy cold one moment and then a few seconds later without rubbing or using any external stimulus they were HOT, not enough to burn but certainly enough to make me recoil in shock. he can do amazing things and says his skill level is fairly low but that his teacher is very powerful...he also says that a lot of knowledge from ancient times has been lost in China and that according to his grandteacher in ancient times there were people doing unbelieveable things, BUT this same guy firmly states that now China is full of bullshit "masters" who are only good at fooling the gullible.

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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 928
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Traveller]
    #460914 - 11/16/01 09:43 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

sorry i dont know much about magick, but i do wanna say this thread is one of the reasons i enjoy the shroomery, lots of intelligent, kind people with knowledge to share - thanks

as for the kung fu, i lived in china for a year and saw guys bend 2 metre sharpened steel bars with their throats, break swords by stabbing at each others stomachs and hack at their arms with steak knives that i checked and they were sharp.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
    #461002 - 11/16/01 11:41 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Well another skeptic has to chime in with the "I won't belive it until I see it" line.
Is it better to jump in with the "I'll swallow any fairy tale put before me." line? So, using your convoluted logic, I should believe because I have NOT witnessed it?

There are people that knew about WTC before it happened
Agreed. They are called "terrorists" and have a unique preview of the future.

They get reactions from jerks like Swami.
Ah, when logic fails resort to - well you know...

Prove to us by using puny human measuring devices that you can move things with your will.".
A measuring device like an eye?

If you want proof of Precognition. Learn the Tarot.
You mean call Ms. Cleo?

So if its all a load of hokum, why would they spend billions on research and covert utilisation of this ability?
Foolishness is not proof any anything paranromal. But we shall stick to your logic - Then why did they abandon this research? Because it didn't work!

People that try and demonstrate thier talents publicly for money or fame or otherwise will ultimately meet with defeat and humiliation.
I see. It is OK to demonstrate your abilities to a handful of people in some remote area, but not publicly. So how many people can one demonstrate to before losing their powers? What is the critical mass and how was this number determined?

Those who fear something the most are the first to say "It doesn't exist, because (horrors) that means I could be wrong!".
There is no fear here. Your psychic powers just failed miserably there in reading my emotional state and my motivation for posting.

Grow up and develop open but critical mind... you will need it to survive.
*Sigh* The pathetic ad-hominem again. Very repetitious. Perhaps I could survive like the believers at Jonestown, Rajneeshpuram, Waco, Rancho San Marguerita, ad nauseum... To you critical thinking means what exactly?

Question Authority!
Ha ha ha ha! This is a joke, right? You see no irony in using this as your closing line?










--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: gribochek]
    #461279 - 11/17/01 12:35 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

The problem of both skeptics and believers alike is falling into the trap people call "logic".
Logic is not a trap, but a series of arguments; basing one truth upon another until a whole picture is formed. One again, note that we are communicating through machines built upon logic, not through any mystical means.

No proof can ever be given of existance of paranormal...
Of course proof could be demonstrated if it in fact existed, but it never has. If you want, we can have a telekinetic party at my house. Anyone that can move a non-metallic object under glass will win a night out at a fancy restaurant and my public stating on this forum, that it does indeed exist. I will become the paranormal world's biggest cheerleader and devote my life to expanding knowledge in that area.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: mr crisper]
    #461283 - 11/17/01 12:40 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

...and hack at their arms with steak knives that i checked and they were sharp.

Sounds impressive. Of course, it would have been much more impressive if they had let you hack their arms instead of themselves.

Ever see the magician / comic The Amazing Jonathan? He does self mutilation in his act which looks very real, but it is only an act.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/08/00
Posts: 1,965
Loc: Mid-West
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
    #461295 - 11/17/01 12:50 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Logic can be swayed as easily as an opinion. Once it was logical that demons caused sickness, and to believe otherwise was foolishness. Now bacteria, virii, and fungus cause sickness and to think otherwise is foolishness. Logic is just a product of the times. If you rely only on your eyes to see, then what will happen when you go blind. Will you be useless? Maybe you already are.


--------------------
Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #461697 - 11/17/01 09:20 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Logic can be swayed as easily as an opinion. Once it was logical that demons caused sickness,

jonny, jonny, jonny - your statement makes grammatical sense which gives it a pseudo-validity, but is inaccurate. You actually reinforce my point. It was a belief that demons caused sickness, not any form of logic.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinemissulena
enthusiast
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 251
Last seen: 22 years, 4 days
Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
    #461719 - 11/17/01 09:53 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

We need more people like swami who see thru the shit

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