Home | Community | Message Board

Shroom Supply
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: Xlea321]
    #792455 - 08/02/02 12:16 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Well, at least I got a few good replies... then someone brings up some other shit and a quasi-flame battle ensues. I wish I could meet you all in person... your perceptions of me would change dramatically (as would my perception of you). But we're probably all too paranoid (or broke) for that. So we continue to duke it out in a forum using the limited media of written word. This is why I wish people would just take words at face value... this form of communication is so limited. We'll never know exactly who the person on the other end is or what they are like or what their intentions are (unless we meet).

We act like our communication isn't limited and attempt to share our deepest thoughts and philosophies (well, some of the time). And then something happens... Someone disagrees with what we posted. We think we communicated it perfectly and we then argue that they just don't understand (for whatever reason). So then we start dissecting their intentions because what else can we do to figure out the misunderstanding? By now, it?s already over and we don?t even know it yet. There?s another miscommunication, this time it?s on a more personal level because it postulates on the poster?s mental mechanisms. Few (I?ll leave that possibility in there) of us can read minds in person, so I?m guessing that number will dwindle further with this type of media. So of course this is bound to piss people off. Knowing all this, I?m still confused as to why the intentions are analyzed more than the original content itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah, another thing that gets more attention than it should: TONE.

buttonion: The tone of the post? when the tone of an author?s post is acerbic, cynical, impatient, and sarcastic, I can?t help but wonder about the author?s intentions.

You should try to help yourself not from wondering but from posting your wonderings. If I try to cut to the chase, I must be impatient. If I don?t like the constant arguing about etiquette, tone, or intentions, I must be acerbic, cynical or sarcastic. This is what I am talking about. Didn?t you read the disclaimer? I am trying to mend the wounds, not rub salt in them. I?m not here to offend or annoy, I?m here to clear things up for myself and to discuss philosophy and spirituality in a civil manner. I CAN butt heads (as you?ll all agree), but I?m so damn tired of it (it?s not productive).


Why is any of this extra crap necessary?
What ?extra crap??

Is this the most effective way to get you point across to everyone? Of course not.
How else can I do it? I figure that if I present it in a straightforward manner with the disclaimer that I?m not trying to hurt anyone?s feelings, that people would understand my points. No matter what way I present something, someone is going to take it the wrong way and get upset? don?t you see my predicament?

And if your real interest is to understand some ?real state of affairs,? you would leave this crap out.
Again, what crap? I don?t understand what you?re referring to.

No, this author is likely more interested in arousing the emotion in others who are like-minded- you?ll receive praise for your rally.
You?re analyzing my intentions and not my post. As such, I won?t give in to your game.


And of course you?ll offend those who are opposed- you?ll probably get equally derisive responses from these people ?? is not really interested in finding any "truth," but instead, is looking for an opportunity to stroke his ego.
More analyzation (nice ?straw man?) of my person. Why do you do this?

Swami: Which would be fine if this was the "Nurturing and Mutual Support" board, but it isn't. Cold logic is very much a part of philosophical discussion.
Alex123: But perhaps not so much part of spirituality discussion. The board is called "SPIRITUALITY and philosophy" remember. I think nurturing and mutual support can play a major part in spirituality.

Which type of spirituality should all posts be prepared for?
There are probably different ways of dealing with each type of spirituality. Since philosophy uses the common debate language of logic, wouldn?t it be counterproductive to translate your post into several different styles?
I don?t think logical argument form and spirituality are inherently at odds with each other. That being the case, why is logical argument form assumed to be so non-spiritual? Logic is a way of communicating precisely. Even if there are certain aspects of your spirituality that cannot be explained by logic, you can still use it to communicate with your peers (fellow posters) in a civil manner. Or am I missing something?

Once again, get your basic facts straight before you attempt to introduce "logic". Logic based on wildly inaccurate facts is completely worthless.
A diagnosis needs a prescription.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: Sclorch]
    #792481 - 08/02/02 12:28 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Depends on whether your logic is worth anything. And bad logic with an atitude is pretty counterproductive.

I think we need more nurturing and less bad logic.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: LOBO]
    #792496 - 08/02/02 12:39 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You reflect my feelings exactly Mr. Mushrooms, and if I may add that the legend says that was due to pride that an angel fell from heaven.
A true seeker of truth above any thing else is humble because he knows he knows nothing.


Yes, the way I put it is; I know a lot about a lot of things but I know very little for certain. I have spent so much time in the lab and made so many simple errors that I cannot begin to think I have all the answers. All that I know is capable of revision and I am always open for that.

If someone posts something that stirs something inside of me like anger, or whatever, I quickly look to see why that is, knowing that it is myself that needs to change.

Cheers,


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: Sclorch]
    #792502 - 08/02/02 12:42 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Well, at least I got a few good replies...

And of them Swami's explanation was the most accurate as far as I can tell.

He big wisdom.

Cheers,


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: LOBO]
    #792646 - 08/02/02 02:10 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Senior Swami you choose not to use your so cherish Logic when is no convenient to you.
I am not sure to what you are referring, but everyone here chooses their own words and responses.

It make all the point, to have respect for our fellow human is in the small and big things, you can not choose I am going to respect his life style but I can trash his opinions.
Mi amigo, there is a HUGE (gigante) difference between questioning a post (BTW, why is questioning someone's facts equal to "trashing"?) and forcing someone to adopt someone else's life style (i.e. your pot smoking example).

I do seek respect not just to inflate my ego but also to have some basic freedoms, if my life style were to be respected I woulden't have to hide every time I wanted to smoke a joint for example.
The fact that you equate the questioning someone's beliefs on a forum with putting someone in jail for a drug offense speaks of the emotionalism of which I frequently lobby against. This type of tangential rant occludes a clear exchange.

Look no further you stated above that my point does not apply here? Wow I did not know some one appointed you judge of what points apply or don't, isn't that a little egocentric from your part?
Should I preface each line with IMHO? Isn't it understood that everyone's post is strictly their opinion? This is nothing new.

I am not the judge, but your statement about imposing on another's lifestyle just does not apply here. We make no laws, your life continues uninterrupted as before.

Please explain how your personal life has been adversely impacted so that I may better understand.

But again they are people out that they think that there way to see the world is the only one and force it upon me, I am not asking them to change to my perspective only to respect my view and let me live.
Does any form of counter-view or questioning or pointing out of fallacies automatically become disrespect?

You are very funny, you pick on other people writing skills and justify it as a lack of self-awareness,
Without clarity how can one give a reasonable response? I have great respect for you, for communicating so well with English as your second language. You have not come so far by being lazy and sloppy, but through diligence and study. Is that not so?

can you honestly tell me that you are trying to wake them up or put them down?
Each will take from it what he will regardless of my intention.

Swami I respect your opinions, but that does not mean I agree with every thing you say.
Nor is it desired or expected. Each of us carries a little piece of the total puzzle; together we may one day understand the picture.

Self-awareness is also knowing the intension or your words or actions and how they are going to affect some one else.
You may be able to do that with one person that you know well, but can you realistically state that you know what impact your post will have on thousands of disparate minds? That is ludicrous.





--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: LOBO]
    #792662 - 08/02/02 02:19 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)


Swami why are you trying to define what this board is or is not, is your own projection now of how things should be or not,
I think this line exemplifies part of the reason why schlorch started this tread. You are reading things that aren't even there. Let's see where I define the board as you state:

Which would be fine if this was the "Nurturing and Mutual Support" board,
This is a true statement. This IS the "Spirituality and philosophy" board.

Cold logic is very much a part of philosophical discussion.
Once again a true statement.

I fail to see any definition here.

Words are powerful stuff.
They can be, but are much like the mushroom experience itself. They are merely tools and each will take something different from them.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: Sclorch]
    #792668 - 08/02/02 02:23 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I would rather not engage in one of these page-long, dialectic debates so I am going to rewind here just a bit, and try to convey to you the gist of what I am trying to say.

Obviously, out of frustration and defeat, a person can effectively exit the debate about the real issue at hand and start making speculations about the author?s intentions (or the attractiveness of his mother for that matter). I don?t doubt that this can and does happen and I think it is a shame.

The assumption that I am working on is that we are all here (i.e., our intentions are) to basically get some information on the topic ?spirituality and philosophy?- maybe to iron out our ideas on life with a little peer critique, maybe to help others out (or something like that). When I read a post and it is proclaiming some idea using a harsh, demeaning tone, I am led to think that the above is not the author?s intention. I think to myself, ?hmmm self, there are several ways that the author could have used the English language to convey that idea, I wonder why he chose to do it in a way that implies that those who don?t agree with him are thoughtless morons.?

It is win I read a post with such a tone that I can sympathize with the respondent?s rebuttal alluding to the author?s intentions. What does this negative tone serve?- I won?t speculate about what psychological function it fulfills for the author (although this is indeed interesting) but I will note that it often pisses off the dissenting reader greatly. Is this your goal? If it is, well done. If your goal is to debate issues solely on the merit of the ideas themselves, then leave the negative, derisive tone out. And no, you are not responsible for the emotional reactions of every reader. But you do know that a degrading tone greatly increases the odds that someone will come back with emotion, thus devolving the conversation to a game of who has the wittier covert ego-attack, precluding any progress on the real issue.


--------------------
Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisiblePeaceful_Nomad
On the Path ofthe Feather
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 447
Loc: Sometimes Kansas - Maybe ...
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: Sclorch]
    #792679 - 08/02/02 02:32 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If someone posts something that stirs something inside of me like anger, or whatever, I quickly look to see why that is, knowing that it is myself that needs to change.

Very well said Mr Mushrooms. The human condition makes it very easy to
give in to emotion without taking stock of why we feel the way we do.
If this world were more prone to being responsive rather than reactive, we
would be a few steps closer to a panacea.

Peace to Everyone

Peaceful Nomad


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: buttonion]
    #792688 - 08/02/02 02:39 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Good post even though I am only in partial agreement.

And no, you are not responsible for the emotional reactions of every reader. But you do know that a degrading tone greatly increases the odds that someone will come back with emotion
I tried to remain a very neutral, toneless (tone being highly interpretive) stance in the the beginning of the "Why people take offense..." thread and still there was a vicious and unprovoked attack. Off-balance people will find a reason to go ballistic because that is there nature; like a drunk in bar waiting for the smallest provocation.

precluding any progress on the real issue.
Does progress come about with reassurances and mutual back-slapping? Has any single thread here shown any progress in your opinion?





--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: Swami]
    #792750 - 08/02/02 03:30 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Does progress come about with reassurances and mutual back-slapping? Has any single thread here shown any progress in your opinion?

(I can?t get this scene out of my head in which all of the posts in this forum have to contain some sort of affirmation of the other?s value as a person. ?Before I begin, I would like to say that I have greatly admired your work for some time. That aside, your God does not exist and never has?? That?s funny)

I?m only speaking about an aspect of a post that can inhibit progress. I?m not saying that hugs and friendly greetings are a necessary condition for a ?progressive post.?


--------------------
Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 22 days
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: buttonion]
    #792771 - 08/02/02 03:51 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

BLAH! Too many words.............too many!


Let me just go to sleep.........................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: buttonion]
    #793241 - 08/02/02 08:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

&#8220;Before I begin, I would like to say that I have greatly admired your work for some time. That aside, your God does not exist and never has&#8230;&#8221; That&#8217;s funny)

It is quite funny that most everyone here wants to transcend the ego and mollycoddle it at the same time. Nothing like a good paradox and a sugar-coated, politically correct jab at the same time...



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Some thoughts on..... *DELETED* [Re: Sclorch]
    #793274 - 08/02/02 08:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by Swami


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: Swami]
    #793339 - 08/02/02 09:21 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

It is quite funny that most everyone here wants to transcend the ego and mollycoddle it at the same time.

Really? How revealing. The only person who does this is you. Perhaps you are dealing with your own personal issues rather than anything that exists on the board.



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 22 days
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: Xlea321]
    #793375 - 08/02/02 09:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Give away the stone.
Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor.
Give away the stone.
Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold.
Let go.





--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: Murex]
    #793590 - 08/03/02 02:56 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks murex, but with the board rapidly disintegrating and people leaving in droves because of swami's bullshit we either call him on his crap or stand by and let him destroy the board.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: Swami]
    #793594 - 08/03/02 03:05 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

For most it does because the ego identifies its ideas with itself, not recognizing that the two are distant and distinct.

I think it is dangerous to let your opinions and your Ego mingle, because then you tend to get offended because you think people are attacking you when all they are doing is attacking your opinion. I think/I hope I have done my best to seperate the two. Also, without a counterpoint, I don't see a point...critisim is one of the best things in the world when handled with correctly.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: Some thoughts on..... *DELETED* [Re: Swami]
    #793724 - 08/03/02 07:02 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by Mr_Mushrooms


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: ]
    #793773 - 08/03/02 07:56 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Relax Plato.

The schlorch reply was a pre-agreed upon joke. Schlorch is a good bud.

Not really a joke so much as an experiment in reading "tone". The tone was light-hearted, yet no one perceived that.

The point being, that NO ONE can read your intentions behind the words. Words are all we have.

It will be deleted shortly.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (08/03/02 08:00 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Some thoughts on..... [Re: Swami]
    #793781 - 08/03/02 08:01 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Can you save your pre-agreed jokes for personal mails instead of inflicting them on the rest of us and polluting the board?

Thanks.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Thoughts on Magick...
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Anonymous 5,567 68 11/20/01 04:40 AM
by Swami
* Thought Loops
( 1 2 3 all )
Swami 4,875 50 08/25/02 01:56 AM
by Middleman
* Respecting the Sacred Mushroom
( 1 2 all )
Swami 2,764 34 03/16/03 08:54 PM
by Viveka
* Tripping & Intent
( 1 2 all )
Swami 3,391 32 04/26/03 10:00 AM
by Anonymous
* Thought Creates Reality Swami 1,127 17 02/19/03 10:16 PM
by GazzBut
* Thoughts Anonymous 1,012 8 02/09/02 06:59 PM
by BigYetti
* Perfection Vs Comfort. tak 1,008 6 12/26/01 12:47 PM
by Rizz0
* Having a Thought vs. Thinking Swami 1,245 7 12/22/02 04:48 PM
by Anonymous

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
5,780 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.036 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 17 queries.