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Anonymous
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Thoughts on Magick...
#417160 - 10/07/01 05:44 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are on magick, from whatever point of view you wish to take. . .
Time is not the killer... we are the killers of time. mp3.com/spin-smk mp3.com/smack mp3.com/smk mp3.com/suspicion37
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Revelation
ॐ


Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#417676 - 10/08/01 05:51 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Okay this is basically where I stand on magick: I don't know very much about it, but if it lets me carry around a staff and grow a big white beard then I'm all for it. Yes, magick is good for the soul.
--- All living things go through time backwards. If the past is visible and the future is hidden, then you must be facing the wrong way.
--------------------
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Anonymous
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Revelation]
#417688 - 10/08/01 06:04 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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when my hair turns white, I'm going to grow a fu man chu...
Time is not the killer... we are the killers of time. mp3.com/spin-smk mp3.com/smack mp3.com/smk mp3.com/suspicion37
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Timeleech
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#417786 - 10/08/01 08:00 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think it depends on what kind of magick you are talking about. There's white and black, and all the shades inbetween. Your definition is important too. Is tarot magic? Or is it just a way of letting you interpret your current situation in another way? I am unsure as to the effectiveness of ritual-based magick, but if it works, I think it gets a little too bizarre for my taste. Like people who think they are druids go out, sit in a ring and do rituals with flowers in their har etc. I don't think they have any idea of what the real druids really were up to. (not that I know either...), but there seems to be this inclination to go back in time in various circles. Most of them just make fools of themselves imho, as the real knowledge is long lost and what they do is just a crude carricature of the real thing based on romantic misconsceptions. Then there are those of a darker persuasion. Most of you who have had a bad trip should be familiar with the notion of mischevious, or even evil spirits. People who try to invoce daemons, or do magic tricks rely on these spirits to do the things they ask of them. Example: I read about a traveller who talked with a magician in egypt. He showed a magic trick where he held a small pencil and piece of paper in his hand, and asked him to think of a name. The magician opened his hand and the name was written on the paper. He said he had commanded(!) one of his servant spirits to read the name from his mind, and take lead from the pencil, and transfer it to the paper. I am not sure, but ther might be a price to pay if you indulge with these kinds of beings, surely they don't do things like this for free? This was not very impressive, but I imagine one could achieve enourmous things if one had more powerfull spirits at ones command(?). Although the price would be equally higher I imagine... I like the idea of magic as presented in Robert Jordans "Wheel of Time" series. It's more a mental thing, tapping into a force. As I said, I'm not very keen on creating talismans out of dead frogs buried in a heap of manure for a night (yes, I read that somewhere, can't remember what it was supposed to be good for though). If anybody has read any of the discworld books by Terry Pratchett about the Witches in Lancre they should be familiar with the fact that words can be magic. Completely normal words. I actually believe that, you just look at what is accomplished with words that goes beyond normal communication. If you say the rights things you can get people to believe/do things. And I'm not talking about simply convincing people to do something. It's very hard to explain, and I'm just gonna create more confusion than I already have by trying more... And there is ofcource the magic of the shamans, no further comment needed on that one I think... :) Those were my quick thoughts on a little of what magick CAN be... I'd be interested in hearing from people who have any experiences with chaos magik for example. Or any other kind (except those who are stage-magicians... :)
-- Perhaps you trust your eyes, but can you trust what you lie your eyes upon?
-------------------- -- Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised. theophagy.org
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DankVudu
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#417804 - 10/08/01 08:18 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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I beleive that Magick, in the sense of doing rituals with candles, staffs, etc. is basically a way to control the energy that is everything. I am a follower of Psi; it is my belief that matter is condensed energy, and that it is possible to will this energy much the same way you will the energy flowing through your brain to move your muscles. To do this, you need a lot of focus and practice; magick is a good way to focus. It is difficult for some people to grasp the idea of simply imagining energy flowing around at your bidding. It makes it easier if you have something to focus your energy with.... Example: "I call upon the power of this red candle to bring me love and happiness(more words and chants etc follow, constantly strengthening the belief that something is really going to happen)" When what is really going on is the individual calling the power within himself to find what one seeks.... see what I am saying? A way to interpret the energy sort of. I guess it's kind of hard to explain if you don't beleive in chi/psi energy/ kundalini etc.
There's shopping malls coming out of the walls as we walk out among the manure
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Anonymous
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: DankVudu]
#418099 - 10/08/01 11:22 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thank you both for some excellent views. It's much appreciated. DankVudu, your going right down the line that I am on right now. I've had some mild experiences with energy, or pure energy for a good catch phrase, and since I've been researching every aspect that would involve it. In my eyes, rituals, spells, and chants (like you said "a way to control the energy") are built to help with the confidence that a spell is going to work. They help keep your mind focused on what it is doing... I guess you pretty much said that with the candle scenario. Where's One Smooth Bitch these days... I'd really like to hear from her since I know she is in practice. Wicca if I remember right...
Time is not the killer... we are the killers of time. mp3.com/spin-smk mp3.com/smack mp3.com/smk mp3.com/suspicion37
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one_smooth_bitch
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#419254 - 10/09/01 07:03 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hi Smack :) well where do I start? LOL I dont consider what I call a spell majic, I consider it wish work, or as a Christian would call it a prayer. I belong to a local coven, and my first ritual circle was really odd for me and I can see how some might consider it strange, but we dont make asses out of ourself. Its all about raising energy and calling the elements of the world, asking the goddess for help, not just for yourself, but for the world and its people in general. I get alot of flack I have noticed from people who seem to think that my particular path is very self absorbed, serving no one but me. I disagree, if that is the case so is any other main stream religion out there. No matter who we pray to or honor, dont we all ask "them" for help and guidence...so Wicca is no different. Spells...well, no, they are not majic by no means in the dictionary definition. Its not like I can levatate, or change a person into a toad. Spells are a way of chanelling your energy to achieve a specific goal. I feel its not something anyone can just do. there are alot of factors and preparation, practice and sheer determination that make spells "work" and when they do... it may not happen right at that moment, it could take hours, days, weeks months or even years. There are a great many spells that do have quick result, but most of that I tend to stay away from, just because I firmly believe in Kharma, and depending on the nature of it hopefully good, you will get back all the good you sent out...man I am rambling. ok, besides my rant... if you want a more clearly defined defination may I suggest "the witches voice", this page in particular ( http://www.witchvox.com/basics/wfaq.html ) here you will be able to get a better understanding on my particular path and even a more defined definition of majic and energy, how it is used etc. ( http://www.witchvox.com/basics/magic.html ) I hope I made some sence? Blessed be Merry part OSB
dare to be different, prepare to walk alone
-------------------- The next time you want pussy, go look in the mirror baby...here kitty kitty kitty.....
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Anonymous
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Well thank you thank you. Oddly enough, I woke up out of a bad dream just in time to read this reply... I'm starting to suspect you. What you said made perfect sense. Lately I have read a lot (and a little at the same time) about wicca in addition to everything else magick. But it was the wicca that made me want opinions... You have cleared up my question nicely. Not only that but you answered one that I never asked!
Time is not the killer... we are the killers of time. mp3.com/spin-smk mp3.com/smack mp3.com/smk mp3.com/suspicion37
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one_smooth_bitch
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#419274 - 10/09/01 07:33 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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thank you :) I am glad I was of some help, I am still very new and still very ignorant to ALLOT! but I have the basics down ;) and I just want to state to anyone who reads my posts about my chosen path. It is only my beliefe and my opinions, I am in no way shape or form trying to say my path is the one true path as most main stream religions may suggest. Every one has thier "God" or in my case "Goddess and God" I feel the main point that seems to be ignored when it comes to whom and what you choose to pay your devotion to in is this, we all need something to believe in, we need that certain something that makes life make sence, something to give us hope and faith, and it really should not matter if your are as me, Wiccan, Jewish, Buddists etc. As long as it works for you and you treat it for what it is and respect one another then that is all that matters. Because in the end, we really dont know what is going to happen. OSB
dare to be different, prepare to walk alone
-------------------- The next time you want pussy, go look in the mirror baby...here kitty kitty kitty.....
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Anonymous
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#419306 - 10/09/01 08:34 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Any takers on chaos?
Time is not the killer... we are the killers of time. mp3.com/spin-smk mp3.com/smack mp3.com/smk mp3.com/suspicion37
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one_smooth_bitch
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#419313 - 10/09/01 08:49 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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that isn't majic in my eyes,just illusion, mind games... OSB
dare to be different, prepare to walk alone
-------------------- The next time you want pussy, go look in the mirror baby...here kitty kitty kitty.....
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lautir777_666
Stranger

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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#423875 - 10/12/01 07:28 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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The chaotic rite dissolves into waking life Dreams and purge A lucid pleasure to scourge A three made of six opens a multiple thrice of seven for switch Transfixed in limbo in spiral of flow Mind and body separate yielding a topographical confluence Integrate Bountiful electromagnetic rotation I am static I am station All to create Void will and resuscitate 18 9 3 3 3 3 6 3 6 6 3 6 3 3 3 3 9 18 Bliss engenders visceral welcome with tremors of wanton miasma Boundaries are blurred within prurient phantasmagoria Wretched euphoria It is necessary to cleave with knife To accept process Dismember Reanimate Osiris through cycle Reborn Remember Two have I Beset on either side The other forever I am middle pillar Satan was God's greatest lover Emerge asexual one nOne is all and brethren of 7 ? ciaofi od rit comselha v manin de iad ?
-------------------- ? ciaofi od rit comselha v manin de iad ?
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Anonymous
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Ahh, that clears things up...
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iudexk
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#423990 - 10/13/01 09:16 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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"If you put the Christian bible out in the wind and the rain the pages will ruin and the words will be gone. Our bible is the wind and the rain."
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Anonymous
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: iudexk]
#424001 - 10/13/01 09:33 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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I like that...
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lautir777_666
Stranger

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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#424200 - 10/13/01 02:09 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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There is nothing to clear up. Relinquish the want to differntiate between "inside" the body and "outside" the body. "There is no such thing as chaos...only infinite degrees of order." ? ciaofi od rit comselha v manin de iad ?
-------------------- ? ciaofi od rit comselha v manin de iad ?
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CACA
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: DankVudu]
#424213 - 10/13/01 02:38 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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yeah, then it just comes down to motives. magick is for babies.
-------------------- "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
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CACA
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its not the same as prayer, because when you pray, you ask for help and you ask for God to do His will. That releases the person from worrying about motives.
-------------------- "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
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CACA
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#424219 - 10/13/01 02:46 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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i suggest you stand for something before you become convinced that magick would ever be some good thing. what the person said is irrelevant. they have books, too. God is who laid down the tracks for the winds. why would you worship something that was made FOR you?
-------------------- "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
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Anonymous
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: CACA]
#424229 - 10/13/01 02:58 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your jumping way ahead of me here... In addition to everything else, I also read from the bible. I was taking it in terms of something like... If you strip your life down to it's minimum, what's left? Following me? I wasn't even thinking in terms of anti-christian or anti-bible. I'll try to explain myself better in the future.
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Anonymous
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: CACA]
#424234 - 10/13/01 03:02 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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On a lighter note... This thread nicely shows the evolution of my avatar.
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iudexk
member
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: CACA]
#424345 - 10/13/01 04:59 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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what the person said is irrelevant. they have books, too. The religion of the person who originally said that quotation does not use books. God is who laid down the tracks for the winds. why would you worship something that was made FOR you? You are assuming that the wind was made for you?
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one_smooth_bitch
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: CACA]
#424351 - 10/13/01 05:03 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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I still say a prayer and a spell are the same thing in the end result. OSB
-------------------- The next time you want pussy, go look in the mirror baby...here kitty kitty kitty.....
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Anonymous
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Exactly... consentration of the energy of your will.
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gnrm23
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#424532 - 10/13/01 09:21 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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and once again we come to the interface of "not my will but thy will be done" and "harm none and do as thou wilt" and the plot thickens... lawrence le shan teaches healing (among other things...) and he states categorically that working healings are done "through me" rather than "by me" next i suppose we can work on : just who is this "me" person, anyway? mmmmmm, maybe another time... peace shanti om blessed be namaste salaam
-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
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Amoeba665
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: gnrm23]
#424844 - 10/14/01 04:41 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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so what kind of results do magickians really get? can they create physical results, like break things or move things? or is it limited to manipulating the energies within a situation or person or environment? (is that right?) and if thats the case do you confidently feel that it was your magick and not just coincidence or the excercising of your will in the real world?
-------------------- ---
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Anonymous
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Amoeba665]
#424847 - 10/14/01 04:47 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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thy will, friend... thy will. please do not fall into my confusion.
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MeltingPenguin
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Amoeba665]
#424848 - 10/14/01 04:48 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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I knew a sharlin monk "i big into martial arts" that could cause a wet towel to steem dry in about two minuets by placeing it on his shirtless back. I also saw him break a sharpened oat Boe staff with his eye lid, no shit. It was right in front of me. His eye got all red and puff, and in like ten seconds it was totally healed. Its all about Chi. The power source of your third charkra.
-------------------- Growing anything is good for the soul
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DankVudu
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Amoeba665]
#424856 - 10/14/01 06:13 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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>so what kind of results do magickians really get? can they create physical results, like break things or move things? Here's a good way to find out if you are really interested: Take a paper plate and push a thumb tack through it in the center, so that the sharp part is sticking up through the center. Next, fold a small square peice of paper in half, then fold it in half again. You should now have a folded up square in the shape of a square. Unfold and it should be creased to a point in the middle of the original square. Set the point on top of the tack(if it is big enough to hit the plate, cut out a smaller square and fold again). Place a glass over the tack, making sure it is not actually touching the paper. Place your hands close to the sides of the glass, and concentrate on moving the paper in a clockwise motion. Feel the energy flowing from your hands around the paper. See the energy do what you want it to do. Depending on how fast you learn, this could happen on the first try, or it could take weeks of practice. I compare learning to manipulate energy to learning to use a muscle. Think about how you learned to walk; it didn't just happen the first day you saw someone else do it.
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gnrm23
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Amoeba665]
#425030 - 10/14/01 11:12 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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siddhis apparently do exist... whether or or not they are "useful" is another story... so... can spiritual energy be generated? can this energy be transmitted or stored? can it have an effect on the physical world? mmmmm.... kay...
-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
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NextGenHippie
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: gnrm23]
#425533 - 10/14/01 07:06 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well... I don't know a lot about most relidgions, but if your spiritual energy is like Tao in it's regeneration, then the Tao Te Ching says on this subject: ____________ It is the nature of the Tao, that even though used continuously, it is replenished naturally, never being emptied, and never being over-filled, as is a goblet which spills its contents upon the ground. ___________ There are many differing views on spiritual energy, from exercising your inner will to do something, to praying to a divine God to part the Jordan for you. But I think the Tao Te Ching defines it adequetly for most.
-------------------- [pot]Think left and think right[pot] [pot]and think low and think high[pot] [pot]Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try[pot] -Dr. Seuss
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jonnyshaggs420
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#425864 - 10/14/01 11:49 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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magick is just the name for what happens when you realise that you and the universe are one and the same.
-------------------- Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice
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oneoverzero
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That's IT! (From Alan Watts THE BOOK: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are Chapter Six: IT, p.139)
-------------------- [red]0011 0001 0010 1111 0011 0000[/red]
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oneoverzero
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#426146 - 10/15/01 08:40 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeeah, I like the evolution of your avatar. It initiated my avatar to evolve two...
-------------------- [red]0011 0001 0010 1111 0011 0000[/red]
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the MidWay
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: oneoverzero]
#432079 - 10/21/01 04:45 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Aleister Crowley adopted the medieval spelling of magic with a "k" to differentiate the psycho-spiritual science from stage magic. The Magi of the Rosicrux and the Golden Dawn, as well as countless theurgists before them, spelled magic without the "k." Like Regardie, we see no reason to surrender the word "magic" to the arena of the stage magician. It will be obvious, then, that by magic we are not considering a theatrical craft or jugglery--and certainly not that mediaeval superstition which was the child of ignorance begotten by fear and terror. These definitions should be expunged from our thinking. For centuries magic has been quite erroneously associated with such pathologies as sourcery and demonolatry due to the duplicity of charlatans and the reticence of its own so-called authorities. Even today, the custodians of this knowledge, harassed by personal problems and their own power complex are still adamant in their refusal to ciculate a more accurate description of magic. Possibly even they have lost all understanding of its principles. The production of genius--more specifically a religious and mystical type of genius is ever the goal of magic. Ceremonial magic enables HUman to become an engine capable of harnessing and directing the enormous power that lies within. A multitude of basic principles are utilized to this end... An understanding and application of magic can telescope the time required for man to acquire the realization of his own divinity. Then, once he has become aware of the existance of his Self (higher self, true self, Atman, guardian angel, Yechida, spirit guide, Urantian thought adjuster, etc.) and works in cooperation rather than oppostion to it, once he looks to it for guidance and direction, thenceforth regarding his ego as a tool, sharpened and polished to be employed now to fufill the divine plan, rather than in the indulgence of his own petty purposes-then will his way become easier... "The Middle Pillar~The Balance Between Mind and Magic" by Israel Regardie 1938 "Magic is the art of causing transformation of the manifest (explicate) universe through the universal medium of the Unmanifest (implicate)." ~Don Tyson "New Millenum Magic" 1988 ~~~~~Every little thing is Magic... every little thing~~~~~
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XAZIA
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#455816 - 11/12/01 09:06 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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hello, i would just like to put in my two cents. i would like to point out that i disagree with osb one the note that " not just anyone can do it". OH CONTRARE. this is the fundamental motivating force of wicca. we all embody the power to call upon the forces from which we were created. that is the beauty of wicca. unlike christianity which states that not all can harness the power of god. that god speaks to a chosen few who are callen (preachers and preists) and then we must rely upon them to interpret this message from god for us. the god and goddess created us all and we all have the ability to tap into the power that they are because we are that same power or life force. and on a second note i don't agree with the statement made that "there is white magik, black magik and all shades in between" there is no grey area where magik is concerned. if it harms ANYONE or ANYTHING then it is black magik (this includes yourself). even when you perform a love spell for someone to fall in love with you, this is considered black magik. you are calling on forces to manipulate another persons desires. i'm sorry but magik is either black or white there is no grey area. lol blessed be!
-------------------- "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds." Bob Marley Remember, EGOISM is the beginning, the source, and the root of EVIL! http://www.fanaticus.com/pf-tek.htm http://www.mycotopia.net/teks/hongus.html
Edited by XAZIA (11/12/01 09:27 AM)
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one_smooth_bitch
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: XAZIA]
#455834 - 11/12/01 09:40 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I feel its not something anyone can just do. there are alot of factors and preparation, practice and sheer determination that make spells "work" Is that what you are referring to? I was mearly stating that you cant pick up a book on spells and actually think that its going to work with out knowledge of what is involved. Yeah, anyone can embrace Wicca and its fundamentals as well as any other relgion, I hope that you didn't get the idea from that original post that I was saying not every one can be Wiccan...because that is not the point I was trying to make. B*B!!!! OSB
-------------------- The next time you want pussy, go look in the mirror baby...here kitty kitty kitty.....
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Ishmael
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Registered: 10/28/99
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: the MidWay]
#455960 - 11/12/01 12:22 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Magick is the act of orienting your life towards a specific desired goal. The act of ritual can and does engrain into the mind the 'purpose of the goal' so that the ego goes about producing the desired effect. The act of Magick is the act of turning your /life/ into prayer, where every footstep and breath is aligned with a desired outcome. The act of utilizing ritual is to communicate with the depths of the mind that are obscured and hidden behind ego by evoking /belief/ (in the act of ritual and the focus of the ritual, wether it be divine, planar or mental). It is important to acknowledge that prayer and ritual are the same thing. The Judeo-Christian idea of prayer is surrounded by as many rituals as the Wiccan idea of it: Kneel, press your hands together, bow your head, preferably all while in some divine place or temple. Most judeo-christians cannot see the ritual because the whole process has become automatic, it has become a singular act rather than a series of parts. This isn't 'better', it is just what occurs when you grew up with the rituals from birth - you create a mental shortcut like a program that contains all of the processes. As to if magick controls energies or not...I have to ask...what is 'Energy'? No one can define what energy is (the question even stumped Stephen Hawking). Identifying the divine as a source of boundless 'energy' it is the same as identifying the sky and heaven as filled and existing within and unidentifiable 'Ether'. The concept of mystical energy is an artifact of inadequate cognition of the /processes/ of the world - which makes it exceedingly hard to elaborate upon verbally. How do you explain to someone what energy is? "Energy is just...well...you know...Energy!" I came to the conclusion not long ago that perhaps it would be less advisable to identify 'energy' as the immutable substance of mysticism, and instead refer to it as "process". Why process? Process is the action of change and transference within the realm of time. Process is a better unifying principal than the vauge notion of energy because it is not some /element/ of a material occurence, like an electron is the material element of the energy-form of electricity. Instead, process is the description of all that is occuring within a system at once - all rather than parts. That to me is important: focusing upon the whole rather than exclusively upon the pieces. Magick would thusly be the action of altering the flow of process that is occuring within all things in order to bring about a desired result. To give a better idea of what I mean by that, I'll utilize some chaos mathematics. Chaos math identifies that every occurence within the world (and indeed the universe) is dependent upon every other occurence which /ever/ occured. The moment of now is the build up of every happening /everywhere/ within the universe from the begining of /time/. To illustrate this, chaos mathematicians created the mental experiment of the 'butterfly effect': A butterfly flaps its wings, which stirs up dust, which causes a passing bird to sneeze which causes a herd of water buffalo to stampeed which causes more dust to rise into the atmosphere which causes water vapor to condense into clouds and causes rain in New York city rather than sunshine. That is Chaos. There is no way that a computer model could predict the result for it would have to have every factor /everywhere/ within its matrix running in real time to do so. Chaos is the idea of mathematical unpredictability. Chaos is not the idea that everything is essentially 'random' (as I stated a long time ago, there is no random, just infinite degrees of order) chaos is /Karma/...which is the idea of infinite cause and effect. So if a butterfly can flap its wings and cause rain instead of sunshine, why can't a human being sitting 'foolishly' in a circle chanting /for/ rain have the same effect? Well, if a human being could link themselves in the /right/ way into the /process/ of chaos (infinite cause & effect), they /could/ produce rain instead of sunshine. Perhaps all it would take is chanting the right words...scaring up the right butterfly. I sat down an thought about identifying the material world in terms of 'process' rather than 'matter' and 'energy' and the depth which you can take the model was mind boggling. What we define as matter is slow process. What we define as energy is quick process. Try to concieve of that, and then try to concieve of all Life as a form of 'process' as well (think: condensed amalgamated process). Ish
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Timeleech
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Ishmael]
#455988 - 11/12/01 12:49 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Process or change. All these words, like energy and vibrations. It's the old game of putting the unspeakable into words. Nevertheless in my opinion "process" or "change" does it nicely. Now we just need to know a few things in order to be set. Like what is doing the processing? Or what changes? And into what does it change? I find it strange that we humans are able to shed so many words on this thing, to the extent that everything seems to revolve around it, or our understanding of it. And that is exactly what it is. We are eyes turned inwards. As I sit here I am left with an urge to express myself about to many matters, so I will go home soon and consult the oracle of Salvia instead, to shed some non-darkness upon the matter (which is energy, which is vibration, which is a process, which changes WHAT?)
-------------------- -- Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised. theophagy.org
Edited by Timeleech (11/12/01 12:50 PM)
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ArCh_TemPlaR
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Ishmael]
#456135 - 11/12/01 03:26 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Timeleech said:
In reply to:
If anybody has read any of the discworld books by Terry Pratchett about the Witches in Lancre they should be familiar with the fact that words can be magic. Completely normal words. I actually believe that, you just look at what is accomplished with words that goes beyond normal communication. If you say the rights things you can get people to believe/do things. And I'm not talking about simply convincing people to do something. It's very hard to explain, and I'm just gonna create more confusion than I already have by trying more...
Tis true, I have some experience with 'words', but not quite sure if I could call it magic.. More or less a chant I call it.. :) DankVudu said:
In reply to:
Take a paper plate and push a thumb tack through it in the center, so that the sharp part is sticking up through the center. Next, fold a small square peice of paper in half, then fold it in half again. You should now have a folded up square in the shape of a square. Unfold and it should be creased to a point in the middle of the original square. Set the point on top of the tack(if it is big enough to hit the plate, cut out a smaller square and fold again). Place a glass over the tack, making sure it is not actually touching the paper. Place your hands close to the sides of the glass, and concentrate on moving the paper in a clockwise motion. Feel the energy flowing from your hands around the paper. See the energy do what you want it to do. Depending on how fast you learn, this could happen on the first try, or it could take weeks of practice. I compare learning to manipulate energy to learning to use a muscle. Think about how you learned to walk; it didn't just happen the first day you saw someone else do it.
Hmmm.. sounds like an article from Romero Cunha (hermetic magic). Midway said:
In reply to:
It will be obvious, then, that by magic we are not considering a theatrical craft or jugglery--and certainly not that mediaeval superstition which was the child of ignorance begotten by fear and terror. These definitions should be expunged from our thinking. For centuries magic has been quite erroneously associated with such pathologies as sourcery and demonolatry due to the duplicity of charlatans and the reticence of its own so-called authorities. Even today, the custodians of this knowledge, harassed by personal problems and their own power complex are still adamant in their refusal to ciculate a more accurate description of magic. Possibly even they have lost all understanding of its principles.
What's wrong with sorcery? I have briefly come in contact with a young practitioner (on the Net) who's pure goal is the relinquishment of needs in rituals, materials, somatics, semantics, and what not. The only concrete element used is a sigil - a receptable to store (chaos) magic. He practices progressive silence in sorcery.
In reply to:
"Magic is the art of causing transformation of the manifest (explicate) universe through the universal medium of the Unmanifest (implicate)." ~Don Tyson "New Millenum Magic" 1988
Very holographic (Bohm's Implicate and Explicate Orders). Ishmael said:
In reply to:
Magick is the act of orienting your life towards a specific desired goal. The act of ritual can and does engrain into the mind the 'purpose of the goal' so that the ego goes about producing the desired effect. The act of Magick is the act of turning your /life/ into prayer, where every footstep and breath is aligned with a desired outcome. The act of utilizing ritual is to communicate with the depths of the mind that are obscured and hidden behind ego by evoking /belief/ (in the act of ritual and the focus of the ritual, wether it be divine, planar or mental). It is important to acknowledge that prayer and ritual are the same thing. The Judeo-Christian idea of prayer is surrounded by as many rituals as the Wiccan idea of it: Kneel, press your hands together, bow your head, preferably all while in some divine place or temple. Most judeo-christians cannot see the ritual because the whole process has become automatic, it has become a singular act rather than a series of parts. This isn't 'better', it is just what occurs when you grew up with the rituals from birth - you create a mental shortcut like a program that contains all of the processes.
Well, it's not fair to compare a judeo-christian to a wiccan (or any other magery or socery). It is never the same because the level of complexity of each one's (ah) rituals are discretely different. For instance, a prayer is harmless in all cases but in magery, a slight mistake could be disastrous. Prayer is simple potential manifestation (ie: wishing for happiness), magery is a complex potential (ie: exorcism). Prayer is an inward-turning reflection, magery is an outward-turning =application=. It is also not fair to judge the mind of practitioner when you think he/she creates mental shortcuts on the basis of ego dominance. Magery is not exactly trendy, it literally defies the orthodoxy of modern-based societies (ego-based). People who follow this kind of path will be tested just like any buddhist will be. The path to Enligthenment is many.. ...But even the Enlightened can be deluded. ...You can only judge them when you are also a practitioner. BTW - your Chaos example, a bird can sneeze??? o.O
In reply to:
I sat down an thought about identifying the material world in terms of 'process' rather than 'matter' and 'energy' and the depth which you can take the model was mind boggling. What we define as matter is slow process. What we define as energy is quick process. Try to concieve of that, and then try to concieve of all Life as a form of 'process' as well (think: condensed amalgamated process).
process -> matter -> vibration (energy) = transpersonal.. KtP
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Felstorm
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
#456170 - 11/12/01 04:00 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Magick is different than Psionics. They are related but they can have major differences. Magic works with Divine "energy". This energy is produced by "Divinity"...And can be channeled by anyone who knows how to access it. Most of it is learning and reading, and practicing. Psionics uses the power of your own bioelectrical field to manipulate the world around you. Take a saucer, fill it with water. Place a cup in the center. now take a small peice of tin foil and float it upon the water. Place your hands on either side of the cup and saucer. Relax. Watch the tin foil. It will start to move. If you think its heat or air disturbance wear a pair of gloves and sit in a room with still air. It will still move. If you place glass between you and the saucer it will not work, remember glass is insulating and you are working with bio-electricity. Try it.
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To do a thing and know no better is ignorance. It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant. To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.
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ArCh_TemPlaR
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
#457110 - 11/13/01 03:24 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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In reply to:
Magick is different than Psionics. They are related but they can have major differences. Magic works with Divine "energy". This energy is produced by "Divinity"...And can be channeled by anyone who knows how to access it. Most of it is learning and reading, and practicing
Yes, a merging of psi and magick. A practitioner 'accessing' the Divine with mere thoughts. This is what I have been told.
In reply to:
Psionics uses the power of your own bioelectrical field to manipulate the world around you. Take a saucer, fill it with water. Place a cup in the center. now take a small peice of tin foil and float it upon the water. Place your hands on either side of the cup and saucer. Relax. Watch the tin foil. It will start to move. If you think its heat or air disturbance wear a pair of gloves and sit in a room with still air. It will still move. If you place glass between you and the saucer it will not work, remember glass is insulating and you are working with bio-electricity. Try it.
I have no doubts we are psionically charged beings. I know my fingers are bioenergetically active. I did a demonstration with one of my friend's ex-gf (intuitive type) by placing one my finger near her third eye chakra. She felt an electrical (like tingily vibrations) coursing around her brow and down the side of the her face. She also felt a point at the back of her head parallel to where my finger was pointing. My friend (skeptical type) tried it and got nothing. KtP
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Felstorm
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
#457154 - 11/13/01 04:21 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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People can train themselves to become "sensitive". Some are born that way. The people that have innate genetic ability to use access magickal energy are usually going to travel down the path of advanced understanding. Certain ethnic groups can be pre-disposed to "The Gift". People of the British Isles commonly display these traits. Most of these people can trace thier genetic lineage back to the Picts. Where this ability stems from. One noted british man is Aleistier Crowley, one of the key founders of Modern Western Magic. Egyptians, Semitic people, and Aboriginal people have strong psychic genetic lineages. People that have used and do use hallucinogens can "Awaken" abilities such as precognition, psychokinesis and other talents if you know how to mentally manipulate the chemicals to open those neural pathways. Although those with natural talent will tend to be a lot better at manipulating mystickal energy. If you are a brave person, and have lost your ego. Study the Major Arcana of the Tarot while tripping. It is simply amazing. That is all the more I can say about it.
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To do a thing and know no better is ignorance. It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant. To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.
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ArCh_TemPlaR
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
#458911 - 11/15/01 01:32 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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In reply to:
People can train themselves to become "sensitive". Some are born that way. The people that have innate genetic ability to use access magickal energy are usually going to travel down the path of advanced understanding. Certain ethnic groups can be pre-disposed to "The Gift". People of the British Isles commonly display these traits. Most of these people can trace thier genetic lineage back to the Picts. Where this ability stems from. One noted british man is Aleistier Crowley, one of the key founders of Modern Western Magic. Egyptians, Semitic people, and Aboriginal people have strong psychic genetic lineages.
Yes, like saying we are born with a certain amount of jing.. As for Crowley, there was this one hermetic master (who runs a fraternity in Portugal) who said Aleistier was bad news..
In reply to:
People that have used and do use hallucinogens can "Awaken" abilities such as precognition, psychokinesis and other talents if you know how to mentally manipulate the chemicals to open those neural pathways. Although those with natural talent will tend to be a lot better at manipulating mystickal energy.
Interesting.. I've meant someone who had his abilities turned on permanently from taking LSD.. But he's not really into mysticism or spirituality..
In reply to:
If you are a brave person, and have lost your ego. Study the Major Arcana of the Tarot while tripping. It is simply amazing. That is all the more I can say about it.
Ahh ahah.. You are referring to tarot cards?? ... I am brave but I will not at the moment due to potential (previous) karma.. That's all I'm willing to say in here.. :o)
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Felstorm
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
#459890 - 11/15/01 10:09 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Alestier Crowley was a magickal genius up until the time he took a trip to the deserts of Africa for the purpose of summoning" etherial creatures using Enochian Magick. Mister Crowley decided it would be a good idea to channel a "demon" call Choronzon into his body. It permanently changed him. He attacked his partner several times during the course of the "possession". The demon was never fully banished, and Mr.Crowley was labeled "the Most Wicked Man" by the British for his radical view of magick afterwards. If you want to know more look him up. As to my reference tot he Tarot. Here is a simple "Exercise" that you might find interesting Templar. Obtain a Rider/Waite, Crowlian Thoth deck , or Golden Dawn Tarot deck. I donot recommend using a "Witches Tarot" for this exercise as I donot know the symbolisms for those cards and the profound psychological and psychoactive after-affects of using them with this exercise. #1. Find a room and clean it...Light some insense and light the room with candles if at all possible. #2. Stand in the center of the room and face east. Imagine a gold glowing fog enveloping your feet and rising to cover your entire body. Relax, spend a few minits like this to release any tension you may have accumulated in your systems. Anywhere you feel tension, "send" a small amount of that gold glow to that location until it relaxes. #3. Imagine now that there is a intense white light about 6 inches above your head. Visualise it, see it in your mind. Bring a peice of this intense light down to your throat, feel it develop into a shere of the same intense white light. Again take another piece and "bring" it down to your sternum area. Feel it create another ball of white light. You may even feel a warm sensation as you do this. And after that take yet another ball and bring it down to your Dan Tian, and area six inches below your navel. Feel the light manifest itself into a ball there. And lastly take yet one more peice of light and sink it six inches below the ground, form it into a sphere that covers your feet and extends into the ground several inches. You should now have a string of White Orbs of divine energy centering themselves on your major chakras. Imagine them fading into your body but not disappearing completely. #4. Now take the Tarot deck and remove the 22 major arcana from it. Shuffle it. Take the first card that is on the top, or if any "pop" out of the deck pay special attention to these cards. Take the card, and "scan" it. By this I mean start at the upper right hand corner of the card and "scan" it into your memory a half inch at a time. Close your eyes and "print" the image back you yourself. Listen to your inner voice. What does it say? What do you feel? Write it all down, including the name and number of the card. After this "erase" the mental picture of the card a half inch at a time. You are done with that card. Take another card and do the same. Repeat until you have gone through the all 22 major arcana. #5. When you are done. Write down all you have experienced. Record your name, Date, phase of the moon, any recent celestial Phenomenon. You are done. Now after you have practiced this several times sober. Try it on a dose of mushrooms. Try not to excede a level 2 or 3 trip. You want to be able to maintain your concentration for the exercise. If you feel an etherial being try and contact you, firmly and authoritavly tell it to leave and harm nothing and no-one along the way. It will go and not return until you either ask it to, or summon it back. This is magick. Remember...Don't listen to me, find out for yourself. And most importantly...Question authority!
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To do a thing and know no better is ignorance. It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant. To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.
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valkyrie
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
#460108 - 11/16/01 02:18 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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in reply to a previous post stating that magick is only black and white.... magick may be a polarized into various manipulations of positive and negative energies, but what is positive is not always good, and what is negative is not always bad. Personally I prefer a balance between the darkness and the light to an excess of either. Many eastern philosophies also teach one to seek out this balance, and energy is understood through principals of yin and yang which highlight the non-morality of magickal force. nature is not moral or a-moral, not horrible, nor loving and welcoming. it simply is, and exists to further itself. I'm an asatru, norse pagan... any others out there? anyone studying runes? ( the elder futhark preferably, none of this witches runes and ralph blum crap ;) ) Anyway, maybe my religious and philosophical bent makes me less appreciative of massive quantities of peace love and light, but even they can grow stagnant. thats what Loki is for ;) wassail-- Megan
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Swami
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: gnrm23]
#460205 - 11/16/01 07:01 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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and once again we come to the interface of "not my will but thy will be done" Sounds good in theory, but most people get a thought or "voice in the head" and call it the will of God or Allah or... Can be very dangerous to believe one is in direct communication with the Deity as then "normal" societal rules no longer apply. So how does one distinguish the "Will of God"?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
#460208 - 11/16/01 07:08 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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People that have used and do use hallucinogens can "Awaken" abilities such as precognition, psychokinesis and other talents if you know how to mentally manipulate the chemicals to open those neural pathways. Sorry. To date no one has publicly demonstrated (unless you count the fraud - Uri Geller) any special powers as described. No one foresaw the WTC Attack. And no one has yet claimed Randi's $10,000,000 prize for a display of paranormal abilities. Nice fantasy though...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Traveller
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
#460392 - 11/16/01 11:05 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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ok Swami skepticism is necessary i agree but do you really think the fact that no one has publicly demonstrated something means that it can't be done? it's like people who think the best martial artists are either bruce lee or those who win no-holds-barred fighting tournaments...and say "well if these old tai chi guys are so good why don't they enter the competition to prove it?"
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Swami
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Traveller]
#460590 - 11/16/01 03:24 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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but do you really think the fact that no one has publicly demonstrated something means that it can't be done? No, it doesn't make them impossible, but the fact that these things have NOT been publicly demonstrated does not foster belief in them. I have seen amazing public displays of power and concentration. A perfect example would be the Olympics. These adepts do not find it unspiritual to display their advanced training and physical prowess. Many people have made paranormal claims, then when they failed under strict testing, said it was the fault of the non-belief of the witnesses. Well, athletes can perform their magick irrespective of the belief of the audience. One guy wanted to prove to me that black magick was real, so I invited him to put a curse on me. So I suppose when something bad happens to me several years from now, he will think himself successful.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Felstorm
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
#460719 - 11/16/01 06:00 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well another skeptic has to chime in with the "I won't belive it until I see it" line. There are people that knew about WTC before it happened. But you know the reaction psychics get when they try and tell people that something bad is going to happen. They get reactions from jerks like Swami. They say, "Scientifically prove that this is going to happen! Prove to us by using puny human measuring devices that you can move things with your will.". You cannot apply simple physical laws to the etherial and ephemeral. These things defy time itself. These people have finally decided to let this kind of thing rear it's ugly head due to peoples skepticism and ignorance. If you want proof of Precognition. Learn the Tarot. Do readings for people. Tarot readers ARE recognised as being able to divine VERY personal aspects of the inquirers past present and future. People that try and demonstrate thier talents publicly for money or fame or otherwise will ultimately meet with defeat and humiliation. The powers that be do not want humans using paranormal abilities openly. Think of the consequenses. They would be used and abused and turned into weapons of war. The US government has already used remote viewers to spy for them. They admit this even. So if its all a load of hokum, why would they spend billions on research and covert utilisation of this ability? Remote viewing, otherwise known as Astral Travel, or an out of body experience is pobably the most easily learned. Yes learned, anyone can do it. But certain people don't want you to. They do not want you to have the power of knowing what "they" do behind your back. The monitors do not like to be monitored. Another proof of "paranormal ability". Chinese Kung Fu masters can start paper on fire with nothing but an open hand. This is done by using human bio-electrics. They have built up massive amounts of this energy call "chi" and can willfully focus and direct this energy. All this is done through simple daily exercise and rigorous mental training. Those who fear something the most are the first to say "It doesn't exist, because (horrors) that means I could be wrong!".Grow up and develop open but critical mind... you will need it to survive. Question Authority!
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To do a thing and know no better is ignorance. It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant. To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.
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Traveller
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
#460879 - 11/16/01 08:44 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Felstorm be very careful about believing stories or demonstrations of chinese chikung "masters", I think in this case unless you have witnessed firsthand upclose with someone you know and trust it would be best to assume that it is fake. there has been a lot of publicity in china in recent years (probably since ancient times actually) given to these "chi masters" but these people are constantly being proven as charlatans...every genuinely skillful chinese kung fu teacher i have met thinks that these famous "masters" who like to demonstrate their "powers" in public and gather large followings are completely full of shit. still - and i don't think we need to talk about "chi" in this context since people will always say it doesn't exist (whether it exists or not is really quite irrelevant) - I myself have felt my teachers hands icy cold one moment and then a few seconds later without rubbing or using any external stimulus they were HOT, not enough to burn but certainly enough to make me recoil in shock. he can do amazing things and says his skill level is fairly low but that his teacher is very powerful...he also says that a lot of knowledge from ancient times has been lost in China and that according to his grandteacher in ancient times there were people doing unbelieveable things, BUT this same guy firmly states that now China is full of bullshit "masters" who are only good at fooling the gullible.
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mr crisper
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Traveller]
#460914 - 11/16/01 09:43 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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sorry i dont know much about magick, but i do wanna say this thread is one of the reasons i enjoy the shroomery, lots of intelligent, kind people with knowledge to share - thanks as for the kung fu, i lived in china for a year and saw guys bend 2 metre sharpened steel bars with their throats, break swords by stabbing at each others stomachs and hack at their arms with steak knives that i checked and they were sharp.
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Swami
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
#461002 - 11/16/01 11:41 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well another skeptic has to chime in with the "I won't belive it until I see it" line. Is it better to jump in with the "I'll swallow any fairy tale put before me." line? So, using your convoluted logic, I should believe because I have NOT witnessed it? There are people that knew about WTC before it happened Agreed. They are called "terrorists" and have a unique preview of the future. They get reactions from jerks like Swami. Ah, when logic fails resort to - well you know... Prove to us by using puny human measuring devices that you can move things with your will.". A measuring device like an eye? If you want proof of Precognition. Learn the Tarot. You mean call Ms. Cleo? So if its all a load of hokum, why would they spend billions on research and covert utilisation of this ability? Foolishness is not proof any anything paranromal. But we shall stick to your logic - Then why did they abandon this research? Because it didn't work! People that try and demonstrate thier talents publicly for money or fame or otherwise will ultimately meet with defeat and humiliation. I see. It is OK to demonstrate your abilities to a handful of people in some remote area, but not publicly. So how many people can one demonstrate to before losing their powers? What is the critical mass and how was this number determined? Those who fear something the most are the first to say "It doesn't exist, because (horrors) that means I could be wrong!". There is no fear here. Your psychic powers just failed miserably there in reading my emotional state and my motivation for posting. Grow up and develop open but critical mind... you will need it to survive. *Sigh* The pathetic ad-hominem again. Very repetitious. Perhaps I could survive like the believers at Jonestown, Rajneeshpuram, Waco, Rancho San Marguerita, ad nauseum... To you critical thinking means what exactly? Question Authority! Ha ha ha ha! This is a joke, right? You see no irony in using this as your closing line?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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gribochek
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
#461225 - 11/16/01 06:10 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ah, when logic fails The problem of both skeptics and believers alike is falling into the trap people call "logic". Is there any point in me saying that logic is not the only tool of knowledge? Take the following exmaples. 1. Prove to me logically that the tree is green. What if I am blind or color-blind, can logic help? 2. Suppose the following scientifical method can be applied to finding an answer to a question "where do TV images come from?" : one takes a magnifying glass and starts examining the screen, then comes up with an answer "No such person as a TV News Anchor exists. The TV image is made up of the small colored dots, and the imagery seen by observers is a psychological phenomenon". Swami, your skepticism is understandable, granding the limitations you impose on observations. Your skepticism is also understandable granding the number of crasy psychos out there. Your skepticism is also its own source. No proof can ever be given of existance of paranormal because it is either expained away as physical or, more often, discounted just like green is by the color-blind. Why do I keep bothering with this?
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Swami
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: gribochek]
#461279 - 11/17/01 12:35 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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The problem of both skeptics and believers alike is falling into the trap people call "logic". Logic is not a trap, but a series of arguments; basing one truth upon another until a whole picture is formed. One again, note that we are communicating through machines built upon logic, not through any mystical means. No proof can ever be given of existance of paranormal... Of course proof could be demonstrated if it in fact existed, but it never has. If you want, we can have a telekinetic party at my house. Anyone that can move a non-metallic object under glass will win a night out at a fancy restaurant and my public stating on this forum, that it does indeed exist. I will become the paranormal world's biggest cheerleader and devote my life to expanding knowledge in that area.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: mr crisper]
#461283 - 11/17/01 12:40 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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...and hack at their arms with steak knives that i checked and they were sharp. Sounds impressive. Of course, it would have been much more impressive if they had let you hack their arms instead of themselves. Ever see the magician / comic The Amazing Jonathan? He does self mutilation in his act which looks very real, but it is only an act.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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jonnyshaggs420
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
#461295 - 11/17/01 12:50 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Logic can be swayed as easily as an opinion. Once it was logical that demons caused sickness, and to believe otherwise was foolishness. Now bacteria, virii, and fungus cause sickness and to think otherwise is foolishness. Logic is just a product of the times. If you rely only on your eyes to see, then what will happen when you go blind. Will you be useless? Maybe you already are.
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Swami
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Logic can be swayed as easily as an opinion. Once it was logical that demons caused sickness, jonny, jonny, jonny - your statement makes grammatical sense which gives it a pseudo-validity, but is inaccurate. You actually reinforce my point. It was a belief that demons caused sickness, not any form of logic.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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missulena
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
#461719 - 11/17/01 09:53 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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We need more people like swami who see thru the shit
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jonnyshaggs420
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
#461824 - 11/17/01 11:57 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Its a beleif that demons don't cause sickness. Prove to me they don't.
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missulena
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after a person dies if an autopsy is performed it is likely that viruses will be found, viruses that are absent in healthy people. Never has a demon or any trace of a demon has ever been found during autopsy why not do you think?
Edited by missulena (11/18/01 01:56 AM)
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Felstorm
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
#462381 - 11/18/01 01:55 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes Swami, question authority. Especially those in the scientific community that would have you worship thier god of science exclusively. Thier scientific evaluations still cannot explain the pyramids in Egypt. These people had no GPS they had no cranes or even steel for that matter. They had no horses. They had bronze and copper tools. They even had a primitive form of electric light. So how did they move 20 ton blocks of stone? And then stack them so accuratly that they are lined up with exact true north, not magnetic north? And then on top of that line them up perfectly with the stars in Orions Belt. To do this would mean that they would have had to seen things from above ground level. There are no mountains in Giza. Explain also how the Ancient Sumerian people knew about the planet Pluto? Pluto was not "found" until the 1950's. They also counted the planets from the outside in. They also knew that the world was round. So did the ancient man Job. This is all eons before Magellan or Columbus actually proved this to the ingnorant "scholars" that thought the world was flat and the universe revolved around the earth. And BTW the human bio-electric field which is measurable and is capable of affecting metallic objects does exist. If you place a non-metallic object behind a piece of glass, which is insulating, you or anyone else will not be able to affect that object. Physically or electrically. It is a proven scientific fact that electricity will not pass through glass. So when scientists gather around someone who claims to have practiced and developed thier "powers" (which is nothing more than thier own natural bio-electric field) the first thing they do is place a non-metallic object surrounded by a piece of glass and tell the person to move it. It's simple physics really. If even kilovolts will not pass through glass than how will the 18+ volts your body is capable of producing pass through it? Debunkers are as bad at being charlatans as the people who claim to be psychic. There are people out there that have extraordinary abilities. Like the Chi Gung and Kung Fu masters. Yes they do bend spears on thier throats and run razor sharp blades over thier skin with enough pressure to cut to the bone. One young man had so much power that they could place metallic objects on his stomach and they would stick to him. A 67 year old woman can take steel rebar and bend it with her throat. A Kung Fu teacher can take an Iron pipe and bend with his fists, and then immediatly after stand upon eggshells and write chinese caligraphy. This is documented on film. In fact it was aired on a major TV syndication in the US. Go talk to Bruce K. Frantzis. He is a master of the internal martial arts. In fact he has a schools in the United States and Europe. In fact he would be more than happy to give you a demonstration of fa jin, or projected energy. You cannot see the wind and air. But you can feel it. You can see its affects on the world around you. Most of the time it is a gentle breeze, other times it is a stiff wind, and occasionally it is a wrathful storm. Magick is science that remains to be explained. Science is magick defined. Truly I say to you, do not listen to me. Find out for yourself. Ask yourself and others difficult questions to answer. Read books of opposite opinions and believe that both observations are correct and that even a third option is possible and could be actuality. People who look for proof that the supernatural does not exist will find more than enough proof that it doesn't. People who look for the existance of the supernatural will find plenty as well. So who is right? Each side can find enough evidence to refute the other. My own opinion is that there is something out there that has yet to be defined by "modern science". And those that say there is nothing supernatural to be discovered are as foolish as those who would say that we have seen everything there is to be seen in the universe.
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To do a thing and know no better is ignorance. It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant. To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.
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Swami
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
#462494 - 11/18/01 03:43 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Especially those in the scientific community that would have you worship thier god of science exclusively. Who are these dastardly scientists? Thier scientific evaluations still cannot explain the pyramids in Egypt. Science is about repeatability. As the pyramids were built long ago any ideas about the exact mechanism of construction will be theoretical. However, as Egypt was known for a fact to have quite a large slave population and the fact that man has built cities that exceed the construction of the pyramids in every dimension by several magnitudes, there is no reason to assume anything supernatural. And then on top of that line them up perfectly with the stars in Orions Belt. Whatever "line up with" means. Assuming that this statement is correct, so what? Build any random pyramid and it will align with something. To do this would mean that they would have had to seen things from above ground level. Yes, if there were mountains, you would be 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 % closer to Orion's Belt which would make a huge difference. Sorry, but you lost me there. They also knew that the world was round. Which proves what we all know. That man is capable of puzzling out things through keen observation. It is a proven scientific fact that electricity will not pass through glass. Not a good idea to demonstrate your ignorance when trying to make a point. Air has a higher dielectric constant than glass and electricity passes through the air all the time. It is called lightning or static discharge. Debunkers are as bad at being charlatans as the people who claim to be psychic. Not even close. Debunkers are not trying to make money off of the gullible masses. A Kung Fu teacher can take an Iron pipe and bend with his fists, Any Kung Fu teacher or a specific teacher? My Sifu holds advanced degrees in several disciplines and has devoted his life to the martial arts. While I have enormous respect for his fighting skills, he makes no claims to any extraordinary abilities. Most of the time it is a gentle breeze, other times it is a stiff wind Seems that much of this is of the "stiff wind" variety. Truly I say to you, do not listen to me. Ok. Finally some advice I can take to heart. So who is right? Each side can find enough evidence to refute the other. Not quite. My computer works consistently (excluding Windows crashes) every day regardless of your belief and I can demonstrate this 100% of the time to anyone. This cannot be said for paranormal claims.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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jonnyshaggs420
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: missulena]
#463470 - 11/19/01 01:52 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sanity is just what the majority views as normal. Crazy people are the best people in the world. They at least know who they are. Prove to me that virii are not physical manifestations of demons. You cannot prove. You can only speculate. There is no logic in speculation.
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lautir777_666
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Anonymous]
#464022 - 11/19/01 10:49 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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M?gick, like all concepts, is what one makes it. This reality is malleable. The attempts at syllabic interpretation are relative. All motion is ritual, all thought is a spell/prayer/meditation, and experience appears to be a reflection of an abstract. Not sane, but embracing infinite degrees of order with hyper comprehension. I am one will I am one will I am one will Pure intent Pure intent Pure intent Pure intent
-------------------- ? ciaofi od rit comselha v manin de iad ?
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Felstorm
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Swami]
#464077 - 11/19/01 11:57 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Swami your diatribe is compelling. >>Who are these dastardly scientists? My answer; Pick one that has a degree. >>Science is about repeatability. As the pyramids were built long ago any ideas about the exact mechanism of construction will be theoretical. However, as Egypt was known for a fact to have quite a large slave population and the fact that man has built cities that exceed the construction of the pyramids in every dimension by several magnitudes, there is no reason to assume anything supernatural. Exactly my point. They were built long ago. Scholars have tried innumerable explanations on how they were built. True Egypt had many slaves, but due to the inclines and planes that would have had to been defeated they would have had to build ramps twice as big as the pyramids themselves. Yet there is no remains of these massive ramps. The timeframes in which these massive structures were built does not lend itself to slave labor. Egyptians were meticulous about recording history. Why did they not include documentation on how they built the pyramids? And please name these immense cities that have these immense buildings equal to or greater than the Pyramids in Egypt, and of the same technological level and time period that are still standing and not made of brick. >>Whatever "line up with" means. Assuming that this statement is correct, so what? Build any random pyramid and it will align with something. Not like this. These buildings are anything but random. They have shafts inside of them. These shafts have one purpose.. at certain times of year _ONE_ particular star would have been visible through it. Not just any star, but a certain one, and at only one time of year. This high precision stuff you are getting from people that are supposedly just starting to harness copper tools and domesticated animals. You are also talking about many millions of tons of limestone piled up nice and neat that you cannot slip a razorblade between each stone. Each stone is also a perfect cube, supposedly carved from limestone with copper tools. Copper is not noted for its hardness, it would take a long time to carve even one block out of a quarry. And then to make it a cube would be even more fun. It would take many many more slaves than the Egyptians ever recorded onto stone or papyrus to accomplish this feat within 40 years. And the tops of all three buildings _just happen_ to line up just perfectly with the three stars of Orions Belt on the spring equinox?!? I think you need to explain all these random occurrences that are somehow not very random at all. >>Yes, if there were mountains, you would be 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 % closer to Orion's Belt which would make a huge difference. Sorry, but you lost me there. The distances and positioning of the buildings in Ancient Egypt reflect certain constellations in the sky. In order to do this accurately, you would have to see things from low earth orbit. Now there are two ways of accomplishing low earth orbit. One is to strap yourself to several tons of rocket fuel and light the fuse. Egyptians at this time did not have even gunpowder. And the other is to astrally project your consiousness to that height. If you will see one of my previous posts Astral Projection was at one time worth several billion to the US government and was even utilised to regain a military officer from capture, with uncanny accuracy. Ancient Egyptians were noted for thier mystical schools and magick practicing priests. I doubt if these priests could make it rain frogs or turn water to blood but I do think they were capable of displacing thier consiousness outside of thier body.
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To do a thing and know no better is ignorance. It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant. To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.
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missulena
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The majorities way of thinking is the most effective way to live in this reality otherwise the psycotics would be the majority. "theres no logic in speculation" crazy people do more speculating than most and you sound like you think they have some kind of wisdom or something You cant prove that about the virus but thats not a good reason to believe it, i cant prove what a 4 year old mutters isnt true but i dont believe it until i have some kind of evidence or someone i trust explains it to me e.g certain scientist
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Swami
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Re: Thoughts on Magick... [Re: Felstorm]
#464180 - 11/20/01 02:40 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I see that we have subtly switched from "scientists" to "scholars". Good move because archaeology may use scientific methodology from which to build hypotheses, but is not itself a science. And please name these immense cities that have these immense buildings equal to or greater than the Pyramids in Egypt, and of the same technological level and time period that are still standing and not made of brick. You add many words to my declaration then ask me to restate it with sub-clauses? That is pretty feeble. Today we build fantastic cities such as New York, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Sydney, London, Paris, etc, etc. These are more complex, taller, larger, more intricately designed buildings and yet you declare nothing supernatural about them. Man did and continues to extrude monumental works from metal and stone. It is called vision and labor. Show any of these cities to a primitive man that has never left the jungle and he will certainly declare it magic. Great stone masonry = a. Alien assistance b. Magick c. Great stone masonry Why did they not include documentation on how they built the pyramids? I do not believe that motivational psychology is within the course-work of most archaeologists. Don't comprehend how their failure to follow modern precepts is indicative of any sorcery. Not just any star, but a certain one Any shaft will indeed display a star. Now where did you get the notion that these particular stars were the result of a desired effect? A constellation is not a natural, but an arbitrary grouping. The constellation of Orion (even if if it had significance-which it doesn't) is a Greek concept, not an Egytpian one.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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