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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Prayer and living the Prayer Life
    #3440068 - 12/02/04 11:44 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Hello all :smile:

This will be my attempt at introducing some of you to what prayer is. And how to pray. I have been receiving PM's asking so I thought it would be better to share with the whole instead of the few.

OK prayer is a link to God. In fact unless God himself shows up in some crazy flash of light in your bedroom or as a Fire ball or something( It happens but not to often) Prayer is the way to become a friend to God. It is the way to start a relationship with what is unseen and not understood. Without Prayer God is unheard and unknown.

So what is prayer? A phone line to God.



The harder questions Are, How do we Pray ? What is acceptable to God ? Can I say something wrong ? How do I know if God hears me ? Who do I know if I hear God or just my own mind ?


I will try to take them one at a time.

I will start with some thing many of you have heard many times but is misunderstood.


How do we Pray ?  Jesus gave the Lord's Prayer and despite what many People say it is not a Prayer. It is a outline, guide as to how to Pray. How to approach God.


Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen.


OUR FATHER WHICH ART IN HEAVEN, HALLOWED BE THEY NAME.


When you come to God you acknowledge that he is your maker, your father. Hallowed means that you are aware that he is higher than you and is to be placed in your heart as the King of your life.


Now you don't half to say some mumbo jumbo. Me I just start with something like. Hey God what is going on today? You are my father my creator and thanks for being you. Nothing fancy



THY KINGDOM COME

Then you might go on to say that it is his kingdom in your life that you want. You tell him God it is your values I seek. You welcome his ways into your life.


THY WILL BE DONE IN EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN

You in your own words let him know that his teachings and his will is the master of your life. Without him living in you. You are lost and you need his understanding. You need his will in your heart to allow You to make the right choices. You want your life and the choices you make to be as close to God as you can get it.


GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD

Notice the word used here is OUR and not MY. You through Love ask for God to provide for all. You please God when you ask for all people to be included for the daily needs. Remember that Love is God and God loves everyone.

AND FORGIVE OUR TRESPASSES AS WE FORGIVE THOSE THAT TRESPASSES AGAINST US.

The word Trespasses is speaking of anything done by anyone that harms you. Emotional or physical. It is very important to forgive the people around you everyday and every chance. God easily forgives you and he expects you to easily for give those around you. Love is the key. Forgiveness is very important to understanding the things of God


AND LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION BUT DELIVER US FROM EVIL


This is plain as the words it speaks. You ask God to give you guidance to allow you to do what is right. To do what Love requires. You asking him to take your path to Good and right things and not to allow you to follow bad things. To follow the path of Love.




OK that is the Lord's prayer.
And is only a Guide.



On a few more things.............


Prayer is nothing more than talking to the walls at first. You will feel silly as I did. But if you Go to God in a very serious way and Truly seek him. You will find him. He will make his presence know to you. There will come a point when there is no doubt that God is there in the room with you. I can not explain it any better. But if you with all your heart and put aside your doubts and extend your words into God arms. You find him. He will speak to you.


CAN I SAY SOMETHING WRONG ?

No absolutely not. God knows your heart better than you do. I have a few times got very mad at God in prayer and screamed at him because he will not answer me. It has been in truly desperate seeking of God I discovered what real prayer is. Sometimes it takes tears and angry emotions to get to to nitty gritty of Prayer. So long as your intent is to please God and find his wisdom. There is nothing you can say wrong to God. He knows your intent.


WHEN WILL I KNOW I HAVE HEARD GOD'S VOICE AND NOT MY OWN ?

That is very hard to answer. I will share my experience with you.

I was new to the ways of God and it had been about a year after I gave my life to Jesus. I was getting very frustrated that I didn't have some " Experience " That God had not talked to me. But a person who was very close to God asked me " How often do you Pray ?"

Well I don't know....at church. Couple times at my bed you know like in the movies. LOL  We he ask me " If you wanted to get to know a friend what would you say ? " Ahhhhhhh I had a revelation

Prayer is nothing more than opening myself to a new friend. To share all my deepest secrets and all my deep desires.


So with this new understanding I went straight home. And just started talking to God. I talked for HOURS and HOURS. I confessed all my nasty little secrets to him. I bitched at all the things I did not have. I asked him to show me Love and how to Love people. Finally I cam to a point where I just broke down and was crying like a baby. I had come to a breaking point past my ego. I shattered my own self and completely hung on God. Then is happened. I heard God say I forgive you and I love you, Get up


Whoaaaaa WOW I heard a voice. But much more important than that I was covered in a new wisdom far past my own understanding. I became fully aware of the spirit of God. I became aware of what Real Love is.

From that point I was aware of God and he was real. I had the introduction to my new best friend. I had found him. I did not know him very well. In fact I really did not know him at all. But I had found his front door.

Now I was not afraid to Pray. In fact I prayed a couple hours a day for months. I became tuned into the things God wanted me to do.




OK.......... I have explained a few things. But the bottom line is this. The only way to understand God is to get to know him. The only way to get to know him is to talk to him. To talk to him to go into a new area that is unformtable. Prayer takes work and needs to be done every day. You will need to be honest with yourself and truly seek him. Do what every it takes. You must set aside all your own understanding and reach into the unknown. Prayer is absolute necessity to know God and to find your true potential


I also read the bible to God and ask him to open my mind to understand what I am reading. I read to the "walls" and meditate over the things I read.

Prayer is using your mouth. Without Prayer you will never get past your own understanding of things greater than yourself and be trapped in the thoughts of Men


Good luck friends :heart: :smile:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3440093 - 12/02/04 11:48 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with what you wrote. 

I will add this, though...

I used to think I had to have some criteria to follow in order to talk to God.  I think that that was as a result of my Catholic upbringing. 

These days, I just talk to God whenever.  THis is what I call "constant prayer."  I don't have to wait for a specific time to talk to God, or wait until I have time. 

I just talk to God whenever I want to talk to God, whether it's about telling Him sorry for something I did, or asking His blessings for something, or thanking Him for something.

I always use natural language.  I talk to God the same way I would talk to anyone. 

If I waited to talk to God until I could use the right tone of voice, or kneel, or go somewhere private, or whatever, I would probably never get to talk to God.

And think about it.  God is supposedly every where.  Why do we have to find the right time or right place to talk to Him?  I can talk to Him while I am, um, sitting in the powder room.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: Frog]
    #3440123 - 12/02/04 11:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineMcKennaFan200
AmateurGairologist

Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 5,395
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3440137 - 12/02/04 11:56 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you brother for your words. I will say this though, I almost never pray out loud. He knows your mind, He created your mind, He knows exactly what you are thinking at all times. I too pray to God as if he were my biological father. You just have to talk with Him, some people get caught up in all the formal aspects of prayer when really it's just talking. "Hi God, it's me, I love you."


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna


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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3440147 - 12/02/04 11:57 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

But if you Go to God in a very serious way and Truly seek him. You will find him. He will make his presence know to you. There will come a point when there is no doubt that God is there in the room with you.



Just as a child knows of the presence of that monster in his closet.
If you believe in anything hard enough it will appear real to you.



But on to the subject at hand. Even though I believe not in a god or in praying to it, I am mortified that you (probably not intentionally) gave such a narrow definition of prayer.

In my mind, giving a homeless man a sandwhich is a form of prayer. Saying a kind word to your fellow man is a form of prayer. Sitting by a warm fire and thinking, "man, sitting by this warm fire really kicks ass" is a prayer.


--------------------


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: jux]
    #3440162 - 12/03/04 12:01 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I agree, jux. I believe that it's possible to stay in a constant state of prayer, through our thoughts and deeds.

And I agree with McKenna. We can talk to God so so casually.

I always liken God to a parent with a child. Would you want your child to speak to you formally? Or only speak to you when clean and smelling fresh?

No, you want to bury your nose in your sweaty child's neck as that child impulsively throws his/her arms around you and hear him/her say, in that child's voice, plain and simple, "I love you!"


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3440164 - 12/03/04 12:01 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I can tell you that I have been teaching people about prayer for many years. I have noticed that people get much closer to God and his thoughts with open mouth prayer.

I sometimes will shout and dance giving praise and thanking God for the goodess in my life. God really loves it when you love him. I think the more I speak out lound to him about his greatness and thanking him for what he has done for me. He come closer to me.

Get crazy and start talking to him just like he is in the room.

Prayer can lead to great things and a greater understanding


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 5,395
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Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3440201 - 12/03/04 12:08 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I guess my praying silently started as a child in Sunday school. They told me it was just "safer" to pray in your mind because Satan can hear you if you say prayers aloud and try to deceive you in one way or another. Now that I have the....seal of God shall I say?, protecting me I have no fear of praying out loud, but still do not practice it very often. Maybe I should try it more often.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna


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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3440202 - 12/03/04 12:09 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Ehhh, I've tried the whole prayer thing. I don't feel it.

I mean, I wish I could believe in a benevolent god and a wonderful eternity in heaven. But, ehhh, I have this deep feeling inside me that tells me it can't be thus. Just like a child knows there is a monster under his bed, just as you know there is a god, just as I know there is none.


--------------------


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: jux]
    #3440246 - 12/03/04 12:18 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

A monster under your bed will never show it self because there are no monsters under the bed. No matter how much a person believes. There will never be a monster.

But with God there comes a time when God shows you his face. Even if at first you do not believe.

And to say that you don't believe in God and you tried prayer is a contradiction. True prayer will find God. Be honest with yourself and seek God tell him that you don't get it. If you are ever in the need to find God tell him what you told me. But do not give up and you will find him :heart:

To find God thru Prayer you must first truly believe he exist or be willing to ask him to help you believe.

God is very real

But as I have already said to many here. I can not prove it I can only tell you how I found God and found that he is in fact real.

It is up to you if you truly want to seek him. If not then so be it.

I can not convince you and I will not try.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3440273 - 12/03/04 12:24 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

And to say that you don't believe in God and you tried prayer is a contradiction.

A monster under your bed will never show it self because there are no monsters under the bed.


And to say that you don't believe in monsters under your bed is merely because you did not sincerely believe.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: Swami]
    #3440294 - 12/03/04 12:27 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I object! There actually ARE monsters under the bed!

Did anyone see the movie "Monsters, Inc."?

I rest my case.

*bows and curtseys*


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineReeRee
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Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: jux]
    #3440319 - 12/03/04 12:38 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I'd tend to agree with Jux... it isn't correct for everyone to experience prayer as an anthropomorphized idea (mapped onto a singular and definitive entity, like 'God'). Some human brains might wish to do this for ease of classification, in order more easily sustain and convey the definition for what life is (this definition is too normal and using words merely results in a reference to something seemingly real, but non-definable and exceedingly intangible).

When you first touched the face of your god in an altered state, did you suspect you might bottle it and take it back to the 'real world' in the pure form you experienced it, sustaining and communicating the meaning to the ones you've loved who now seemed so asleep? It's difficult if not impossible and really a nasty chasm. God to Non-God, awakened minds to non-awakened (albeit busy) minds -- assigning excessive patterns and meaning where there doesn't need to be.

Is it enough to temporarily lose your ego to finally understand that, with all of the perceived structure that exists, there doesn't need to be a 'daddy' to be accountable for it all?

-R


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: Swami]
    #3440323 - 12/03/04 12:39 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
And to say that you don't believe in God and you tried prayer is a contradiction.

A monster under your bed will never show it self because there are no monsters under the bed.


And to say that you don't believe in monsters under your bed is merely because you did not sincerely believe.




You still don't understand and that is OK.

You think that God is nothing more than a imagination run wild. That is a lie and you believe that as much as I believe that God is real.

You believe that rejection of God is reality.



Look we can continue this is PM's if you like but I was hoping to keep this thread on topic
:thumbup:



He removes foot from mouth :grin:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: ReeRee]
    #3440345 - 12/03/04 12:44 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ReeRee said:
I'd tend to agree with Jux... it isn't correct for everyone to experience prayer as an anthropomorphized idea (mapped onto a singular and definitive entity, like 'God'). Some human brains might wish to do this for ease of classification, in order more easily sustain and convey the definition for what life is (this definition is too normal and using words merely results in a reference to something seemingly real, but non-definable and exceedingly intangible).

When you first touched the face of your god in an altered state, did you suspect you might bottle it and take it back to the 'real world' in the pure form you experienced it, sustaining and communicating the meaning to the ones you've loved who now seemed so asleep? It's difficult if not impossible and really a nasty chasm. God to Non-God, awakened minds to non-awakened (albeit busy) minds -- assigning excessive patterns and meaning where there doesn't need to be.

Is it enough to temporarily lose your ego to finally understand that, with all of the perceived structure that exists, there doesn't need to be a 'daddy' to be accountable for it all?

-R




I also felt this way in the beginning of my search to know the real God. But it was thru prayer that I got to know God and he showed me many things. Once I came to a point to except greater things I was shown more tangible things

Example............ I was asked by God to pray over a 12 year old child. She had many warts covering her hands, nasty. God told me that I would heal her. I prayed and right there in front of my eyes I seen a miracle. I found that the more I prayed the closer I got to God. The closer I got to God the more he allowed me to see and understand.

God will give you the proof you seek. If you truly seek him


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3445597 - 12/04/04 02:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

As I've said before, if you believe in something it will manifest itself.


--------------------


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: jux]
    #3445633 - 12/04/04 02:18 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

jux said:
As I've said before, if you believe in something it will manifest itself.




If this were true, that a person could make such things happen without God and be done through pure thought. Then we would be living in a far different world. There would be many people doing many great things. The fact is my friend, the vast majority of the people in the world are living for the world and there own selfish needs. This is exactly what the world has, itself and the rewards of seflfish human nature. Not the nature of God.

I did not heal that child. God did, through me and my Love for him.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3445904 - 12/04/04 03:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Nicely formed post, Fucknuckle.

The only reason I cannot take it to heart, is because it seems you are still maintaining the seperation, the distinction, & the externalization of God. This externalization creates the line between the Prayer and the "Prayee".

If you clarify that you are well aware that such verbalizations and actions towards a higher diety are in fact, towards our intrinsic higher Being; the God within every form, every being, everything in existence... then we are in agreement.

Whether we are in agreement or not, there is no respect lost. In the long run, it matters not of our differences, or the differences between cultures of the world, or species of the Universe... as long as our hearts are in the right place and our actions are towards the same Universal Higher Good. Subtract O from that word, and you have God.

:wink:


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3445958 - 12/04/04 03:57 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I understand what you are saying and I still am somewhat confused about God being a separate entity. I do that God is in all humans and that God can be found within. Be when we die are we " Going to heaven and hanging with God" ?

I do not know exactly and will not lead anyone to think such things I really don't know.

I do know that Jesus himself said that some things are just to great to understand living in this human form. So I only know what God himself has shown me. I am grateful for the knowledge and wisdom he has thus far given me so far.

I try not to dwell on the things I do not fully understand and ask for then to be given to me when God see it is time. When I am confused I take it to God in prayer and leave it with him.

I trust that the things I know today would have never been understood without God. So I continue to trust that God will revel what I need to know and when I need to know them


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Posts: 24,851
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Re: Prayer and living the Prayer Life [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3448986 - 12/05/04 07:47 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I think many people here do not understand the sheer power of the mind. All this does is create the ultimate ego. Instead of identifying your thoughts as your own, they become the thoughts of a new character, and change occurs. This change does not evidence the reality of a God, but merely the effects of one's own, unintentional delusion.

You have created a character with your thoughts that takes the form of a different identity. The mind created it, and the only evidence of its existance comes from within the mind. All benefits from doing this can be realized without the supercharging of the ego identification. One can simply be in reality.

This aspect of the mind which takes on identity super-inflates itself. The idea of a eternal, infinite, all-powerful being is the ultimate identification one can take on. It offers transcendence from the troubles of one's life because emphasis is no longer on these aspects of life. This is grand
delusion.

My time is now up, so I will leave ya'll with a story:

The wife of a man became very sick. On her deathbed, she said to him, "I love you so much! I don't want to leave you, and I don't want you to betray me. Promise that you will not see any other women once I die, or I will come back to haunt you."

For several months after her death, the husband did avoid other women, but then he met someone and fell in love. On the night that they were engaged to be married, the ghost of his former wife appeared to him. She blamed him for not keeping the promise, and every night thereafter she returned to taunt him. The ghost would remind him of everything that transpired between him and his fiancee that day, even to the point of repeating, word for word, their conversations. It upset him so badly that he couldn't sleep at all.

Desperate, he sought the advice of a Zen master who lived near the village. "This is a very clever ghost," the master said upon hearing the man's story. "It is!" replied the man. "She remembers every detail of what I say and do. It knows everything!" The master smiled, "You should admire such a ghost, but I will tell you what to do the next time you see it."

That night the ghost returned. The man responded just as the master had advised. "You are such a wise ghost," the man said, "You know that I can hide nothing from you. If you can answer me one question, I will break off the engagement and remain single for the rest of my life." "Ask your question," the ghost replied. The man scooped up a handful of beans from a large bag on the floor, "Tell me exactly how many beans there are in my hand."

At that moment the ghost disappeared and never returned.


:smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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* Self-Forgiveness
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Veritas 3,196 40 09/09/05 02:41 PM
by crunchytoast

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