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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: Sclorch]
    #940974 - 10/07/02 08:34 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Jesus H. Christ Sclorch, ignore my last post. My wife was actually playing Devo in the other room. You are the one! How may I follow you?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: Evolving]
    #941012 - 10/07/02 08:50 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Just turn up the volume so Zahid can listen in, too. :wink: 


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: Sclorch]
    #941437 - 10/08/02 01:08 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

lol


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: Swami]
    #941514 - 10/08/02 02:34 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I am sorry to hear that. I'm in an acute stage of sacral back pain. I went to a Rolfer for half a dozen (costly) sessions - nothing. Now, I'm in chiropractic 5 days per week (9 sessions = the price of 1 Rolfing). I have a 6th lumber vertebrae - only supposed to have 5. Wish I could share with you.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Anonymous

Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #941616 - 10/08/02 04:15 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Owie. [winces]


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Anonymous

Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: Evolving]
    #941617 - 10/08/02 04:17 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Jesus H. Christ Sclorch, ignore my last post. My wife was actually playing Devo in the other room. You are the one! How may I follow you?

I'm sorry but I absolutely resolutely unequivocally refuse to believe that was happenstance.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #941994 - 10/08/02 08:27 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I hear ya. Would not be able to make it through the week without chiropractic and the occasional massage. (extra vertebrae = alien? :wink:)

Seriously though, how can you believe in the healing power of prayer when you have devoted nearly your entire adult life to connecting to spirit, yet be unable to help yourself except through physical techniques? 


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: ]
    #942321 - 10/08/02 10:53 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Jesus H. Christ Sclorch, ignore my last post. My wife was actually playing Devo in the other room. You are the one! How may I follow you?
I'm sorry but I absolutely resolutely unequivocally refuse to believe that was happenstance.

Finding meaning in the random doesn't mean it isn't random.

Maybe Swami could tell you about the numerous times he's "read my mind". I think it happens more often when people are on a similar wavelength. To date, Shroomism has never read my mind.

But I digress....


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: Swami]
    #942568 - 10/08/02 12:52 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Great question! The 'Spiritual' is more like the Will (or, if that is too Biblical for your liking); the Creative Intelligence (unless you hate the TM term); or perhaps the 'Cosmic Context' in which the phenomenal world of mind-body operates. I've never looked for miraculous interventions - suspensions of natural law - when it comes to the Spiritual. The transcendent 'God' is immanent in creation. Our own intelligence is a pale reflection of Mind-at-Large, but a reflection nevertheless. Things and events are not intrinsically good or evil, but are determined by the Intentionality (Phenomenologists say that Consciousness is always Intentional).

Therefore, Compassion as an underlying master-motive, mediates the Goodness of God. Healing - making whole - making holy (same root) was a frequent response of the Jesus of the Gospels as examples of the mediation of God's Goodness. The whole drama about being lame, crippled, blind, etc. sets the stage for their opposite - wholeness, which is imparted by Wholeness, or The One which IS God. Chiropractors have transformed down this kind of divine answer with their 'life-force' jargon, yet, it is not far removed from the ideas of prana or chi. In the Gospels, when someone was healed through touching the hem of Jesus' garment, He was alleged to have said that 'virtue' (Latin=virtus=strength) had left him. Just trying to establish an immanent-transformed down mediation of Divine Intentionality here. I'm not even talking about special psychospiritual powers here. Jesus forgave and healed. I have learned from hypnosis practice (which is NOT to say that Jesus used hypnosis) that a lot of symptoms can be removed through having someone forgive an abuser - even after the abuser is dead). Another pale example of higher mysteries. Intuition, proper manipulation of bodily components (as well as Compassionately motivated manipulation of psychic components) can and does result in healing - in wholeness, and, if 'thanksgiving' is the result of such healing, then right there is one of the four categories of prayer. Prayer is the result of the healing/wholeness, and I might add that the drama may well have been enacted to this very end. This is how some of it was depicted in the Gospels, as with the healed blind man. Healing is not always the result of [petitionary] prayer, as you well know - as I well know.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: Sclorch]
    #942581 - 10/08/02 12:57 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Sorry schlorch, but I cannot reveal the details of our sacred connection. Some things must remain private. But I do have one question for you. Are you sure that the man you call "dad" is your true biological father?

Is it mere coincidence that our personas and style are somewhat similar? Is it coincidence that you look like a younger version of me? You handsome rogue...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: Swami]
    #942606 - 10/08/02 01:09 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

P.S. - An afterthought. Perhaps you've heard this, but it is relevant to your question and my reponse.

A man is caught in a terrible flood. As the waters rise, he clambers up on the roof of his house. In the darkness, a light approaches - it is a man in a motorboat shouting "Get in, we still have room!" No thank you replied the stranded man, "God will save me." The boatman putted off. The flood waters continued to rise and the man clung to his chimney. Suddenly, a light appeared in the sky, and grew brighter and was accompanied by a loud roar - a helicopter. A man with a bullhorn yelled down to the stranded man, "Let us drop you a line, we still have room!" "No thanks!" screamed the man over the roar of the copter, "God will save me." Off the copter went in search of others. The stranded man drowned. When the gates of Heaven opened for him, he beseeched God, "Lord, I had faith in you...why did you not save my life?" And God replied, "Son, I sent you a boat; I sent you a helicopter...what do you want from Me?"


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineTeKHeAD009
Stranger
Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 760
Last seen: 14 years, 10 hours
Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #942881 - 10/08/02 02:47 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Ha, thats a really good analogy. I'm not philosophically advanced enough to understand all that first reply... but that story works.  :grin:

Ya gotta meet God half way, hes not gonna do it all.

Like those people who refuse medical attention and just prey for healing.

(edited - added a word.)


Edited by TeKHeAD009 (10/08/02 02:49 PM)


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #943016 - 10/08/02 03:33 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Ya gotta meet God half way, hes not gonna do it all.

That's a good one too.


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: Evolving]
    #943031 - 10/08/02 03:39 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You gotta' feel guilty to want forgiveness, DUH!

Of course - guilt is natural, guilt is good. Guilt can save. After repenting, well I can't explain it. I didn't say guilt is absent from religion; but guilt promoting? That's a broad radical explaination.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: Zahid]
    #943844 - 10/08/02 08:50 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Evolving:  You gotta' feel guilty to want forgiveness, DUH!
Zahid: Of course - guilt is natural, guilt is good. Guilt can save. After repenting, well I can't explain it. I didn't say guilt is absent from religion; but guilt promoting? That's a broad radical explaination.

Holy shit are you dense... whatever, sarcasm isn't for everyone.

I just hope you don't fuck anyone's heads up with your perspective.
Please get a vasectomy. :wink: 


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Can prayer aid in health? [Re: Zahid]
    #943850 - 10/08/02 08:54 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Don't take that too personally... whatever the fuck that means, eh?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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